Barisone assessment

[SillyHorse]

@CanteringCarrot

think some are being a bit too black and white or extreme re MB being delusional. Just because you’re delusional doesn’t mean that you reject ALL reality or that some things aren’t in fact true

Or that you’re criminally insane, as one poster here referred to MB.

[arktos19]

This is Lalapoprider post from a November 2021 “Horse Care” thread on blanketing:

“At my current barn, more specifically, the barn my horses occupy, I do have “nanny cams,” in each horse’s stall- but with the expressed permission of the owner. And, we were glad to see that the other barns on the premises had full surveillance too. Anyway, just my thoughts. I have nothing against your thoughts, as I’m (hopefully) sure you already know. ”

Other posts on that thread included mention of her apartment on premises and her privately hired team of grooms that function like a well-oiled machine…

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@hut-ho78

That is the problem. There are a few posters who don’t understand the verdict. The jury did not find her guilty because she was the victim not the defendant. They found him delusional so no criminal intent yet he won’t be released until deemed not a danger to himself or others.

You know, it’s ok to perfectly understand the verdict and not agree with it for a single second. If I were on that jury it would have hung because I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael Barisone shot anyone.

With this post you’re confirming that by finding him NGRI, the jury did conclude that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Michael Barisone shot LK.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@hut-ho78

That is the problem. There are a few posters who don’t understand the verdict. The jury did not find her guilty because she was the victim not the defendant. They found him delusional so no criminal intent yet he won’t be released until deemed not a danger to himself or others.

You know, it’s ok to perfectly understand the verdict and not agree with it for a single second. If I were on that jury it would have hung because I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael Barisone shot anyone.

With this post you’re confirming that by finding him NGRI, the jury did conclude that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Michael Barisone shot LK.

Wrong.

[BrendaJane]

wasn’t the Prosecuting expert trying to assert that since all the things actually were perpetrated by the ninjagal and her sidekick Boy Friday MB was not actually delusional?

In any case
I think I need to find my brewing buckets. They don’t sell mini kegs around here anymore.

[LiberalSnowflake]

@Sdel

Just so it is clear as to where some of the last couple of day’s comments are coming from…

Lordy, she’s writing in the third person again - and referencing that “letter from jail”, the letter that she shared around to utterly random folk in the dressage world she’d never met, thinking it was some kind of stake in his heart, when all it showed was how caring he was about his fellow inmates, with no mention of her, the incident, or the trial at all.

It’s like nothing really sinks in, she just keeps repeating the same things over and over regardless of actual facts, or what’s gone on. It’s such odd behaviour for an adult, it’s more like what you’d get from a small child.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

With this post you’re confirming that by finding him NGRI, the jury did conclude that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Michael Barisone shot LK.

Not even a little bit since I wasn’t in the jury room. I can’t confirm what they concluded.

Maybe they figured LK had bullet holes, NGRI is a safe answer because there sure was overwhelming evidence as to his state of mind.

Maybe this was a compromise because anyone in my camp (NG) didn’t want to spend a 5 day weekend thinking about but not talking about the case, and again, NGRI was a safe answer.

Maybe to those 12 jurors, shoddy police work is so standard they don’t expect forensic evidence, so bullet holes was good enough.

I cannot confirm. I wasn’t there.

[LiberalSnowflake]

@Seeker1

He perpetrated damages on lots of people long before Lauren came along.

Then why could none of them be found by the prosecution? Weird.

[Knights_Mom]

@LiberalSnowflake

@Sdel

Just so it is clear as to where some of the last couple of day’s comments are coming from…

Lordy, she’s writing in the third person again - and referencing that “letter from jail”, the letter that she shared around to utterly random folk in the dressage world she’d never met, thinking it was some kind of stake in his heart, when all it showed was how caring he was about his fellow inmates, with no mention of her, the incident, or the trial at all.

It’s like nothing really sinks in, she just keeps repeating the same things over and over regardless of actual facts, or what’s gone on. It’s such odd behaviour for an adult, it’s more like what you’d get from a small child.

Everyone sees the situation for what it is and many are calling it out. They see the alters.

It’s embarrassing at this point. Or it should be.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I appreciate your legal opinion that the finding of legal insanity may absolve his civil liability in somewhat the same way it absolved his criminal liability. That has been a major question to me.

Re the NG on attempted murder of RG, I believe the prosecution’s contention that he shot at RG, but given that no third casing was recovered no bullet actually struck RG, if I had been on the jury I would have found similarly, that the prosecution’s case was not established beyond a reasonable doubt. Even the prosecution itself foreshadowed that finding by the jury by dropping the attempted murder count wrt RG in the plea deal they offered.

I also completely agree that there are major differences on “what matters” in the civil case vs the criminal case. That’s why I think the fact that Barisone did not actually ask her to leave prior to Aug 5 matters for the civil trial. He had abundant opportunity to avoid her harassment by handing her a demand to vacate weeks earlier.

So, you think her dad negotiating an exit at the end of July, that she refused, is meaningless?

I’ll play your game with notice for a second. All things being the same, dueling SS reports, police calls, building inspectors, SM posts, surreptitious recordings, ninja appearances, etc all remain the same. Notice is delivered by email Aug 5th, and served Aug 6th, per trial testimony. All other facts remain the same, including CPS showing up.

If the shooting never happened, what do you envision the 30 day notice accomplishes? Do you think everyone’s going to sit around a camp fire toasting marshmallows and singing Kum Ba Yah for 29 days and then LK and RG pack up on day 30 and get out, because now she has that piece of paper in her hands that is more significant than even her own father’s actions?

Or, version 2: the farm remains toxic for another 30 days. Possibly other clients leave, like the one who testified she was looking for a new barn already. MB’s got nowhere to freaking sleep short of getting an Air BnB while work can be done on the barn, ninjas keep popping up, recordings continue to happen, with private conversations still being posted on SM, etc…and on day 30 it all comes to an end, when again, that piece of paper makes her move?

Or, version 3: all of the above continues to happen, except she decides, what the heck, let him evict me. So now she and RG are dug in, while continuing their part in the toxicity at the farm. Day 31 - Mr Tarshis files eviction. Hearing is set for March 2020, because that’s about how long it takes to get an eviction hearing pre-COVID. Then COVID hits and courts are closed, and eviction moratoriums are enacted, and the nightmare grows worse and worse. How does that scenario end?

If he had served the 30 day notice on or before July 1, I think she would honored the 30 day notice and left prior to August 1.

If he only realized he was desperate to get her out of there by, say July 22, he had two legal, honest options:

1. tell her, unilaterally, the training relationship and tenancy are ending as of Aug 22, 2019, or
2. acknowledge that she had the right to remain for up to 30 days, and request and negotiate for her to leave earlier.

He went through door #3,
3) harass, intimidate and scare her into leaving prior to 30 days, and without a buyout of some form. The police calls and the massive complaint to USEF were part of the harassment campaign.

1 & 2 are alternatives to the intimidation campaign he chose. LK had been training with MB for some time, and while MB and MHG suddenly wanted her gone, if they had taken door 1 or door 2 instead of door three, it’s just not that onerous to honor the 30 day legally required notice.

I don’t think her FB posts, SS report, or harassment via the BI happened in a vacuum. I think she was responding to Barisone’s choice of door #3.

The closest I have come to this situation personally is that at one point I was sharing an apartment with a roommate I no longer got along with, and spent some money paying her last month’s rent to get her out of the apartment 3 weeks early. I “bought her out”. I was a student at the time and by no means flush, but it was money well spent.

I think that if Barisone had not opted for the intimidation campaign, it would have been uncomfortable but bearable to wait out the thirty days from whenever things turned sour (which was prior to Aug 5.) But I would have gone for door #2, and tried to “buy her out”. If her terms were something I couldn’t stomach, I would have made the best of the situation and waited out the thirty days without deliberately escalating things with an intimidation campaign.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I appreciate your legal opinion that the finding of legal insanity may absolve his civil liability in somewhat the same way it absolved his criminal liability. That has been a major question to me.

Re the NG on attempted murder of RG, I believe the prosecution’s contention that he shot at RG, but given that no third casing was recovered no bullet actually struck RG, if I had been on the jury I would have found similarly, that the prosecution’s case was not established beyond a reasonable doubt. Even the prosecution itself foreshadowed that finding by the jury by dropping the attempted murder count wrt RG in the plea deal they offered.

I also completely agree that there are major differences on “what matters” in the civil case vs the criminal case. That’s why I think the fact that Barisone did not actually ask her to leave prior to Aug 5 matters for the civil trial. He had abundant opportunity to avoid her harassment by handing her a demand to vacate weeks earlier.

So, you think her dad negotiating an exit at the end of July, that she refused, is meaningless?

I’ll play your game with notice for a second. All things being the same, dueling SS reports, police calls, building inspectors, SM posts, surreptitious recordings, ninja appearances, etc all remain the same. Notice is delivered by email Aug 5th, and served Aug 6th, per trial testimony. All other facts remain the same, including CPS showing up.

If the shooting never happened, what do you envision the 30 day notice accomplishes? Do you think everyone’s going to sit around a camp fire toasting marshmallows and singing Kum Ba Yah for 29 days and then LK and RG pack up on day 30 and get out, because now she has that piece of paper in her hands that is more significant than even her own father’s actions?

Or, version 2: the farm remains toxic for another 30 days. Possibly other clients leave, like the one who testified she was looking for a new barn already. MB’s got nowhere to freaking sleep short of getting an Air BnB while work can be done on the barn, ninjas keep popping up, recordings continue to happen, with private conversations still being posted on SM, etc…and on day 30 it all comes to an end, when again, that piece of paper makes her move?

Or, version 3: all of the above continues to happen, except she decides, what the heck, let him evict me. So now she and RG are dug in, while continuing their part in the toxicity at the farm. Day 31 - Mr Tarshis files eviction. Hearing is set for March 2020, because that’s about how long it takes to get an eviction hearing pre-COVID. Then COVID hits and courts are closed, and eviction moratoriums are enacted, and the nightmare grows worse and worse. How does that scenario end?

If he had served the 30 day notice on or before July 1, I think she would honored the 30 day notice and left prior to August 1.

If he only realized he was desperate to get her out of there by, say July 22, he had two legal, honest options:

1. tell her, unilaterally, the training relationship and tenancy are ending as of Aug 22, 2019, or
2. acknowledge that she had the right to remain for up to 30 days, and request and negotiate for her to leave earlier.

He went through door #3,
3) harass, intimidate and scare her into leaving prior to 30 days, and without a buyout of some form. The police calls and the massive complaint to USEF were part of the harassment campaign.

1 & 2 are alternatives to the intimidation campaign he chose. LK had been training with MB for some time, and while MB and MHG suddenly wanted her gone, if they had taken door 1 or door 2 instead of door three, it’s just not that onerous to honor the 30 day legally required notice.

I don’t think her FB posts, SS report, or harassment via the BI happened in a vacuum. I think she was responding to Barisone’s choice of door #3.

The closest I have come to this situation personally is that at one point I was sharing an apartment with a roommate I no longer got along with, and spent some money paying her last month’s rent to get her out of the apartment 3 weeks early. I “bought her out”. I was a student at the time and by no means flush, but it was money well spent.

I think that if Barisone had not opted for the intimidation campaign, it would have been uncomfortable but bearable to wait out the thirty days from whenever things turned sour (which was prior to Aug 5.) But I would have gone for door #2, and tried to “buy her out”. If her terms were something I couldn’t stomach, I would have made the best of the situation and waited out the thirty days without deliberately escalating things with an intimidation campaign.

HIM harassing HER?

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

With this post you’re confirming that by finding him NGRI, the jury did conclude that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Michael Barisone shot LK.

Not even a little bit since I wasn’t in the jury room. I can’t confirm what they concluded.

Maybe they figured LK had bullet holes, NGRI is a safe answer because there sure was overwhelming evidence as to his state of mind.

Maybe this was a compromise because anyone in my camp (NG) didn’t want to spend a 5 day weekend thinking about but not talking about the case, and again, NGRI was a safe answer.

Maybe to those 12 jurors, shoddy police work is so standard they don’t expect forensic evidence, so bullet holes was good enough.

I cannot confirm. I wasn’t there.

By saying you would have hung the jury by holding out for a straight NG because you don’t think the prosecution made its case that he shot her, that implies to me that the unhung jury that unanimously agreed on NGRI was in unanimous agreement that the prosecution did make its case.

Re bolded: according to the jury instructions, they’re not even supposed to consider the issue of insanity until after they’ve decided that the prosecution made its case that he shot her.

[smoofox]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

Why are you tagging 2 banned users and 1 member that hasn’t posted anything involving you in quite a while?

Did you forget your conspiracy theory? Unable to let it go that you were wrong? Can’t accept that most of us don’t go around flagging each other without significant cause.

I was pointing out that @equkelly and @RND must have been flagged by people other than me in order to get banned.

You do realize that people can get banned without being flagged? And constantly tagging banned posters is a very imperious YD kind of thing to do… and just plain pointless. I am bemused that some here have adopted her style…

@MorganSercu

Sounds like someone watched The Changeling episode first aired 29 September 1967 (Nomad). Syntax is similar.

Aaaah - I love it when fellow Trekkies/Trekkers reveal themselves…

@hut-ho78

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

My question on the technical forum was asking whether a poster with a flagged post was notified as to who flagged it. No one answered my question, so I’m back to assuming that the identity of the flagger is not conveyed to the poster, although obviously the mods would have that information.

This is another tactic that confuses me. Why post a question on a forum that you want the moderators to answer? Why not simply PM the mods and ask the question? You aren’t the only one I’ve seen do this and usually there isn’t a response from the moderators.

Why do you continuously appoint yourself the COTH posting etiquette police? It’s hilarious.

The irony of this statement is amusing or alarming - I am not really sure which…

@hut-ho78

Oh my gosh, this from the person who incessantly posts instructions to other posters on how to post, when to post, when not to post.

Again - irony. Or maybe just plain disingenuous… YD was the one who loved to lecture everyone on how to post, when to post., when she felt you were allowed to post etc. No one else in these threads even comes close to that… but some are trying very hard.

The current obsession with flagging posts and tagging other posters incessantly - even banned ones - is just… odd.

As far as editing or deleting posts go, I edit for typos and clarity - always right after posting… and never go back and change the context or meaning of any post. Not even if I have gotten a bit… perturbed… at someone.

@Knights_Mom

@LiberalSnowflake

@Sdel

Just so it is clear as to where some of the last couple of day’s comments are coming from…

Lordy, she’s writing in the third person again - and referencing that “letter from jail”, the letter that she shared around to utterly random folk in the dressage world she’d never met, thinking it was some kind of stake in his heart, when all it showed was how caring he was about his fellow inmates, with no mention of her, the incident, or the trial at all.

It’s like nothing really sinks in, she just keeps repeating the same things over and over regardless of actual facts, or what’s gone on. It’s such odd behaviour for an adult, it’s more like what you’d get from a small child.

Everyone sees the situation for what it is and many are calling it out. They see the alters.

It’s embarrassing at this point. Or it should be.

I find it very sad that apparently none of her close friends or anyone in her family appears to be trying to take her aside and help her out or advise her about this. None of the sh-stuff she is posting now helps her upcoming civil case in any way whatsoever so either she does not care or she thinks she is untouchable and smarter than everyone else.

[BrendaJane]

I will regret asking:
Where do you get it from that he was bullying and intimidating?
And not from statements made by people who had to admit under oath that they lie and use drugs on a regular basis.

[Sdel]

Seems to me, the plan was to force him to evict her so she could sue him for broken contracts. Why else would she be talking about subpoenas, perjury and moles in the barn before the shooting…

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If he had served the 30 day notice on or before July 1, I think she would honored the 30 day notice and left prior to August 1.

If he only realized he was desperate to get her out of there by, say July 22, he had two legal, honest options:

1. tell her, unilaterally, the training relationship and tenancy are ending as of Aug 22, 2019, or
2. acknowledge that she had the right to remain for up to 30 days, and request and negotiate for her to leave earlier.

He went through door #3,
3) harass, intimidate and scare her into leaving prior to 30 days, and without a buyout of some form. The police calls and the massive complaint to USEF were part of the harassment campaign.

1 & 2 are alternatives to the intimidation campaign he chose. LK had been training with MB for some time, and while MB and MHG suddenly wanted her gone, if they had taken door 1 or door 2 instead of door three, it’s just not that onerous to honor the 30 day legally required notice.

I don’t think her FB posts, SS report, or harassment via the BI happened in a vacuum. I think she was responding to Barisone’s choice of door #3.

The closest I have come to this situation personally is that at one point I was sharing an apartment with a roommate I no longer got along with, and spent some money paying her last month’s rent to get her out of the apartment 3 weeks early. I “bought her out”. I was a student at the time and by no means flush, but it was money well spent.

I think that if Barisone had not opted for the intimidation campaign, it would have been uncomfortable but bearable to wait out the thirty days from whenever things turned sour (which was prior to Aug 5.) But I would have gone for door #2, and tried to “buy her out”. If her terms were something I couldn’t stomach, I would have made the best of the situation and waited out the thirty days without deliberately escalating things with an intimidation campaign.

Your door #3 is actually a door #4. You skipped over the option where she digs in her heels and fights an eviction. Here’s a fun fact or two about NJ evictions. Before it can go to trial, they have to attend mediation first. Assuming mediation fails, only then can a hearing be set. AND (as a landlord, this kills me) even if the judge determines the eviction is just, this can happen:

“ A tenant can ask the court for permission to stay in the property due to special difficulties or hardship that moving out might cause. If permission is granted, the tenant cannot stay in the property for more than six months, and all rent due, and future rent due during this “hardship stay,” must be paid.”

Also, you skipped over the fact that her dad and his lawyer spent at least a week, maybe two, per testimony, trying to negotiate that exit, and thought, as of August 2nd, they had succeeded. Except, their solution wasn’t good enough for LK, so the eviction notices came.

And if you’re going to hang MB for an “intimidation campaign”, how do you determine which came first? Her SS report or his? Her banging on windows and playing loud music late at night in the barn, disturbing the horses, or him calling the cops? Her running around all ninja-style, or him hiring security? The eviction notice, or the trip to the building inspectors?

Clearly, everything on that farm was toxic. But in the civil suit, LK doesn’t get to walk away from her behavior and actions.

[Angela_Freda]

@BrendaJane

wasn’t the Prosecuting expert trying to assert that since all the things actually were perpetrated by the ninjagal and her sidekick Boy Friday MB was not actually delusional?

One was, but I think the other, Simring?, said the parts that are true make the truly delusional ones easier to believe, I believe.

[Seeker1]

No

[Angela_Freda]

@LiberalSnowflake

Then why could none of them be found by the prosecution? Weird.

Or as far as we know, 48 Hours.
Meanwhile…

[DownYonder]

@LiberalSnowflake

Lordy, she’s writing in the third person again - and referencing that “letter from jail”, the letter that she shared around to utterly random folk in the dressage world she’d never met, thinking it was some kind of stake in his heart, when all it showed was how caring he was about his fellow inmates, with no mention of her, the incident, or the trial at all.

It’s like nothing really sinks in, she just keeps repeating the same things over and over regardless of actual facts, or what’s gone on. It’s such odd behaviour for an adult, it’s more like what you’d get from a small child.

Arrested Emotional Development - usually caused by some kind of serious psychological trauma at a very young age (such as abuse, neglect, or accident). The person gets “stuck” emotionally at the age at which the trauma occurred.

There are lots of articles about it. This quote is from https://psychcentral.com/ptsd/signs-trauma-has-you-stuck#effects-of-trauma

When you feel or act emotionally younger than your actual age, this is known as age regression…Age regression means that, later in life, child-like behavior patterns can appear again when we feel unsafe or when we encounter triggers related to previous trauma — even if we’re unaware that we’ve been triggered.