Barisone Case on 48 Hours, 10:00 PM Eastern, Saturday, 9/17

[Sdel]

@DownYonder

@Sdel

Now see, I’m a pun girl. I was rolling on the floor…

He had backed the wrong horse……
Trojan horse….

But did he use the term “mentally instable”? Or was that someone else?

Nagle used it. More projection? Flashback? Foreshadowing? Catch all?

[DownYonder]

@Sdel

@DownYonder

But did he use the term “mentally instable”? Or was that someone else?

Nagle used it. More projection? Flashback? Foreshadowing? Catch all?

Probably more like sloppy writing, no proofreading, etc., etc.

[Knights_Mom]

@cutter99

@enjoytheride

I find the entire story really really hard to believe. Trainer is irate that owner won’t let them ride. Trainer steals horse, ships it across the country, and rides to glory. Owner does nothing except post about it on COTH.

Those who are anti this trainer find it entirely believable.

I’m not sure how many of you ship or haul horses interstate regularly, but I do fairly regularly.

It is not as simple as just throwing a horse on a trailer and going.

A health certificate with an exam is required within 30 days of the date the horse ships, which requires a vet to see and inspect the horse. Typically the vet takes the horse’s temperature, looks at the nose and eyes, listens to the heart and lungs.

I have never shipped or hauled to or from Florida, but I have been told that it is impossible to get in or out of that state without the proper paperwork. If you come into the state and do not stop at an agriculture inspection center, law enforcement will run you down and stop you on the interstate, and then back you go to the agriculture inspection center, with some hefty fines to pay in addition to presenting the proper paperwork.

Many states will not stop you or ask in any way for a health certificate. Florida is not one of them.

I would think, especially due to the involvement of a vet, that an owner must be aware that their horse is going to ship. I have owned horses for 40+ years, and while some vets send bills many required payment when service is rendered or shortly there after.

I know of only one vet who did not send bills regularly, and he quickly found that solo practice did not work for him as he could not keep cash flowing due to his inability to send out bills and collect payment.

Another point- if the entire barn packs up and heads South for the winter, wouldn’t you 1) be fully aware of the date this is happening, 2) either be going along, or 3) be looking for another alternative for boarding and training if you chose not to go?

Let’s face some truth here- for the amount of time Michael has been in the horse business, excluding the August 7 incident, there is very little negative scuttle but out there about him. Do I believe the one person other than LK who had something negative to say? Not so much, as there seems to be something off about the story and no one else has seemed to have had any experience similar.

When you travel down I95 and enter FL there is a mandatory checkpoint. Any horse trailer MUST pull over. I’ve passed a few times and have never seen it shut. They are serious about it. Very serious. So serious that when I drove down during start of Covid EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE was diverted thru that checkpoint regarding Covid. And even though it was late, the wait was long. I had to sign a self quarantine promise that for 14 days I wouldn’t go out in public with my Yankee maybe covid germs.

There is no way a horse trailer passed through without getting stopped and all the documents checked.

[Jealoushe]

@Angela_Freda

Very helpful towards bettering communication and understanding of the topic.
Great job.

Your posts @ me never make any sense to me. I’m trying to avoid bickering so please leave me be.

[Angela_Freda]

Especially if she primarily rode with MHG and JH, and MB only saw or worked with her periodically.

I’d like to know how frequently she did ride with MB vs the others. It might explain why MHG and JH had a better awareness of what she was really like than MB might have.

I mean, I’m sure most of us get more relaxed about being less formal the more time we spend with someone.

So if she was still a bit more professional with MB because she respected him more in general, but in part because she rode with him less …

Meanwhile if she respected MHG and JH less to begin with, and then thanks to familiarity became less so.

If I ride with my home trainer I might wear a tank top, and my half chaps. If I’m clinic’ing I wear a nice polo, a belt, my boots and they are polished.

I wonder if she lost what respect she had for MHG and JH due to riding with them, unhappily, as routine. While MB was still on a pedestal in part due to the less frequent exposure.

I say this in part due to the reverence those interviewed give MB, which they don’t give the other two trainers.
Those other two trainers have a different, very valuable perspective to offer LK because they are still climbing up and closer to where LK was in the Dressage journey.
.

[Angela_Freda]

@Jealoushe

Your posts @ me never make any sense to me. I’m trying to avoid bickering so please leave me be.

So just ask what I mean.
No need to bicker, what an odd default to have.

[DownYonder]

@cutter99

If you come into the state and do not stop at an agriculture inspection center, law enforcement will run you down and stop you on the interstate,

Not just the interstate. I know of someone who was turned back at the ag inspection station due to lack of current paperwork for one horse on the rig, went back up the road into GA and then tried to sneak back into FL on a side road. He got caught.

@cutter99

Another point- if the entire barn packs up and heads South for the winter, wouldn’t you 1) be fully aware of the date this is happening, 2) either be going along, or 3) be looking for another alternative for boarding and training if you chose not to go?

Another point - if the entire barn - and staff - are heading to FL for the winter, no decent trainer (esp. one with MB’s experience and credentials) is going to leave a horse at the barn alone, with no one to care for it. Nope, they are going to load it with the rest, esp. if the owner has made no provisions to move the horse herself before the training barn closed up for the winter. My guess is that MB gave the client notification of the move ahead of time but there was a communication lapse between the two of them, so he moved the horse to make sure it was taken care of.

[Guyot]

Not every top pro wants them popping out of their skin, some do, some don’t. And training, by a very good pro can make the horse hotter or duller depending on how reactive we want them to be to the aids.

While I too prefer a hot ride especially at FEI and GP I have ridden dull horses and made them hot enough to p/p even on the final CL; I spend most of my training time dulling down hot horses so their AA riders don’t get bounced.

No amount of training will ever change a full horse into hot horse or vise versa but you can make them hot enough. If just depends where you want to spend your time. Perfecting the GO button or the HALF HALT button…. But the choice is ours when we buy the horse.

[eggbutt]

Full disclosure - I might be recollecting in error, but didn’t MHG/MB purchase a sibling foal/weanling to one of LK’s horses? As I recall they hoped to flip the horse after training. I don’t have any idea if that horse made it to the US or not.

[CanteringCarrot]

@SusanO

It just surprised me how hot a top pro wants a horse to be. This horse was not lazy by any stretch of the imagination. So like you said - training ( and trainability) alone won’t make a horse into something a pro might want.

This is actually a topic that interests me. My last horse was very sensitive and rather hot, but in a rideable way, and you do need this in order to get the most expression out of the horse and for the ride to look effortless. Some people felt uncomfortable on him because he was so fine and self propelled (but not fast) but that’s just what he needed to be. I was surrounded by quite a few people who felt that riding should be some immense physical effort or struggle, and that they needed to be able to kick their horses at every stride. A dull horse equaled a relaxed horse to many of them. So they often thought my horse would be too sensitive, but he was, in reality, fit for his purpose and pros had no qualms about it.

A horse that can “turn it up” and have a “stage presence” will always have an advantage, IMO, and draw more attention. Yes, some level of “hot” is required there. You shouldn’t be struggling through a canter half-pass because you taught your horse to be dull and to lose all expression because that means “relaxed” to you.

Ideally a horse with a good brain knows when to, or can, turn “it” off and on. I love when you can amp them up, get them super responsive and expressive (but not panicked or nervous), and then walk out of the sandbox on a long rein in a relaxed manner, as you should.

[Angela_Freda]

If the horse was also shipping south (following the circuit as would be likely) or really going to anywhere else from HH… but with a different barn, those documents would still be needed.

Edit To clarify:. So an owner being in receipt of those bills for vet inspection, etc wouldn’t be a clue the horse was headed to the “wrong” destination. But certainly could serve as a heads up to clarify where the horse is going.
.

[jvanrens]

@strangewings

FYI Dr. Grande just covered this case. He did a great job summarizing, but does make some terrible puns.

It was shared here somewhere. I can’t remember which discussion though. It was pretty much dead on.

[LiberalSnowflake]

@Jenerationx

@CanteringCarrot

There is a difference, generally, between Olympic or very top level horses, and the amateurs horse. Or some horses simply top out at 3rd level, and that’s fine too. The point was why would MB want one of LK’s horses who aren’t or weren’t of his caliber?

Not just want them, but be willing to kill to get them?

Gosh, that takes me back. Wasn’t that one of LKs original claims? That she was going to be murdered (and buried on the property) so that MB or MHG could get her horses? She heard all this somehow, but didn’t leave. If I heard someone plotting to murder me for ANY reason, I’d be out of there so fast that I’d leave smoke behind me. There’s nowt so queer as folk.

[SillyHorse]

@SusanO

It just surprised me how hot a top pro wants a horse to be.

I was surprised, as well. I ride regularly with a Pan Am medalist who has trained multiple horses to GP. I asked her early on in our training relationship whether she thought she might get to the Olympics with the horse. I was floored when she said, “No, he’s too lazy.”

[CanteringCarrot]

@Guyot

Not every top pro wants them popping out of their skin, some do, some don’t. And training, by a very good pro can make the horse hotter or duller depending on how reactive we want them to be to the aids.

While I too prefer a hot ride especially at FEI and GP I have ridden dull horses and made them hot enough to p/p even on the final CL; I spend most of my training time dulling down hot horses so their AA riders don’t get bounced.

No amount of training will ever change a full horse into hot horse or vise versa but you can make them hot enough. If just depends where you want to spend your time. Perfecting the GO button or the HALF HALT button…. But the choice is ours when we buy the horse.

Which is sort of why I buy just started or unstarted youngsters. I like to tailor them to be a certain type. I also don’t want to fix others mistakes (I don’t like fixing my own mistakes but that’s life ).

I can’t do dull horses. I can certainly bring a hot horse down a few levels, but we all have our preferences I suppose.

[Jealoushe]

@SillyHorse

I’ve been corrected, told I was wrong, and even been treated with a bit of rudeness on the COTH forums, but I’ve never been such a baby to claim I was attacked. Grow up.

Classy response. Just because you haven’t been, doesn’t mean others have not been. I have had some of the most horrible things I have ever heard said to me here on this forum. Things that were directed at me and horrible things I went through. Not experiencing it personally does not negate it’s existence.

[eggbutt]

Interesting point. I wonder if MB recognized LK was overhorsed with whatever horse was in question and realized she was intimidated by it and causing training issues due to her riding ability? Maybe if he did offer to buy the horse it was to retrain it a bit and flip to a more advanced client. Simply a stab in the dark guess.

[SillyHorse]

@Jealoushe

Just because you haven’t been, doesn’t mean others have not been.

Hold on there, dearie. I didn’t say I wasn’t “attacked” (although I can’t figure out how scary an “attack” on an internet forum can be unless there are direct threats to life and/or limb). I said I wasn’t such a baby to claim I was attacked. People claim this every day here just because a few other people might disagree and make it known. It’s tiresome and childish.

If this forum is so awful to you, why do you stay?

[Jealoushe]

I never said that at all It’s not that things are scary, it’s that they are hurtful and people will say the worst things possible to inflict the most amount of hurt.

I’m glad you haven’t experienced that.

[Angela_Freda]

@eggbutt

Interesting point. I wonder if MB recognized LK was overhorsed with whatever horse was in question and realized she was intimidated by it and causing training issues due to her riding ability? Maybe if he did offer to buy the horse it was to retrain it a bit and flip to a more advanced client. Simply a stab in the dark guess.

And if, because of that, MB then suggested that MHG or JH ride it and then train her on it because they were riding it… made her bristle…