Barisone Criminal Case Update

[Angela_Freda]

@Knights_Mom

I’m thinking it depends. If they wouldn’t meet with him I doubt they would have believed him or listened to him unbiasedly if they did.

But it would, one hopes, be recorded in some fashion.

@Knights_Mom

So personally I find the refusal to speak to MB highly irregular and certainly not the norm.

Agreed. And the hole it leaves in this case is why hopefully it’s changed.

[Knights_Mom]

@Angela_Freda

@Knights_Mom

I’m thinking it depends. If they wouldn’t meet with him I doubt they would have believed him or listened to him unbiasedly if they did.

But it would, one hopes, be recorded in some fashion.

@Knights_Mom

So personally I find the refusal to speak to MB highly irregular and certainly not the norm.

Agreed. And the hole it leaves in this case is why hopefully it’s changed.

I don’t think it will affect the criminal case against MB at all. The civil case? Maybe? But even that is sketchy.

[BrendaJane]

well, somebody lost their decoder ring and I guess the Orville Redenbacher stock will drop.

Other than that, we had an interesting discourse on statute and examples of what makes a certain crime such, vs a lesser or higher charge.

Of course, there is the grand variant from state to state.

[Knights_Mom]

The big charge is attempted murder. So the prosecution must show that MBs actions were the actions someone would reasonably take if they were planning to murder or trying to cause the death of another. (The planning could have been for a month, a day, or spur of the moment)

So obtaining a firearm is a lot more damning than obtaining a glue stick.

Going with a loaded gun is a lot more damning than going with an unloaded gun.

Of course there could be a dozen or more other actions which a person might take were they planning to kill.

And if reasonable people - the jury - listens to the prosecution’s list of these actions they must decide if those are the action(s) of someone planning to murder or engaging in the act of attempting said murder.

And if just one juror doesn’t believe that those actions showed intent to murder then you get hung juries, and a subsequent mistrial declaration.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Angela_Freda

I have the timeline tangled worse than Xmas lights

The 911 call, saying that Lk/RG may have a gun… was that after the gun “went missing”?

If that were the case, I could completely understand heightened anxiety, stress, etc about the situation on many of the concerned parties.

My recollection is that MB said “They have guns” in person in the police station on Aug 5 (according to his civil suit). That’s the same “incident date” that RC gave her gun to MB.

I don’t think he ever said LK and RG had guns in any of the 911 calls.

[Angela_Freda]

My recollection is he was asked, and he said maybe.
Iirc there’s a 911 call from MHG saying they might be armed.
And finally perhaps it was stated in person when officers responded. I’ve seen no indication that LEO asked about licenses, or registration of any guns referenced. Doesn’t mean they weren’t examined, if they could be legally.

[omare]

I cannot begin to follow this, and have no opinion, but we can assume that one should never turn your gun over to anybody? What was she thinking-because it was pink it was less dangerous?

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

My recollection is he was asked, and he said maybe
Iirc there’s a 911 call from MHG saying they might
And finally perhaps it was stated in person

In the police station he also says they were served that day with vacate
notice on 8/5. I assume this is what the lawyers were discussing….

But, vacate notice 8/5, and BI&FM 8/6 and CPS 8/7….looks like retaliation….

[Angela_Freda]

Sure does

[DownYonder]

@Angela_Freda

I think we have to remember that we’re getting this from a news source that is a bit like the Telephone game.

@DownYonder

And I am still struck by the statement that RC handed her gun to MB so he could “look at it.” And apparently left it with him, didn’t ask for it back, and had no idea what he did with it until it showed up underneath him in an altercation in which someone was shot.

That all we got from the news is the bolded, doesn’t mean there wasn’t a lengthier, fuller explanation that makes more sense.

Good point. I was thinking there had to be more to the story than her just handing it to him because he asked “to see it.”

[DownYonder]

@CurrentlyHorseless

My recollection is that MB said “They have guns” in person in the police station on Aug 5 (according to his civil suit). That’s the same “incident date” that RC gave her gun to MB.

Do we know which happened first? He asked to see RC’s gun before he went to the police station? Or he asked to see it after he was rebuffed at the police station?

[DownYonder]

@Sdel

…vacate notice 8/5, and BI&FM 8/6 and CPS 8/7….looks like retaliation….

That’s a very sobering timeline. So sad for all involved.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@Angela_Freda

MB tried to meet, at the Police Station, with a supervisor.
He was denied.

One wonders what may have been shared, truthful or not (and both are revealing in the end), had he been granted that meeting.

I’m thinking it depends. If they wouldn’t meet with him I doubt they would have believed him or listened to him unbiasedly if they did. Failure to meet with him is rather unheard of in my public service experience. In 31+ years of public service someone has asked for a supervisor maybe 1500 times and 1500 times a supervisor/Clerk of County spoke to them. Sometimes, that was me. The ONLY “absolutely nots” are judges. But in that case the judge’s law clerks do speak to them.

So personally I find the refusal to speak to MB highly irregular and certainly not the norm.

When he went to the police station on Aug 5, he was not reporting an immediate incident, but wanted to register a complaint about how the police had handled the previous 911 calls and their general handling of the whole situation.

I vaguely recall that when he wanted to register his dissatisfaction with the way the police had handled things, the response was that the way to do that was to state the complaint in writing, or fill out a form. He instead wanted to talk to the police chief in person, or be given the police chief’s phone number, and those requests were denied.

I totally agree that it would be unreasonable if he were not allowed to register a complaint in any form. However, if he had the option of putting his complaints in writing, and having the written statement sent up the bureaucracy, I can see that’s a better way of handling such complaints than letting anyone vent in front of the police chief directly.

As it is, we only have his lawyer’s claims of what he said in the lobby. If he was given the opportunity to state his complaints in writing for the PD to handle within its own process, and declined, that’s on him.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I vaguely recall that when he wanted to register his dissatisfaction with the way the police had handled things, the response was that the way to do that was to state the complaint in writing, or fill out a form. He instead wanted to talk to the police chief in person, or be given the police chief’s phone number, and those requests were denied.

It seemed to me he was wanting to make criminal complaints….the ones he had been begging the officers to make/investigate all week. You don’t make criminal complaints by running a written statement up a bureaucratic flagpole.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@DownYonder

@CurrentlyHorseless

My recollection is that MB said “They have guns” in person in the police station on Aug 5 (according to his civil suit). That’s the same “incident date” that RC gave her gun to MB.

Do we know which happened first? He asked to see RC’s gun before he went to the police station? Or he asked to see it after he was rebuffed at the police station?

The dismissed civil suit had an extensive timeline, so it probably had the time of the visit to the police station. I don’t think I’ve seen any indication of a time in terms of RC handing him her gun.

[Scribbler]

Some general comments.

This whole story points out that the police by nature of their function are not very good at solving ongoing disputes between people who know each other. These police appear to have been fairly incompetent of course. But also much of what MB is documented as saying on his 911 calls is not the kind of stuff police can act on. It’s the kind of stuff you need civil action and then a bailiff. You cannot call the police to evict someone without a court order, or to make them sign a contract. It’s also about impossible to get a local police force to act on claims of internet harassment. They will come out for guns, blood, drugs, stolen cars, fisticuffs, etc.

As far as reading tea leaves, we have several sources.

There is the civil suit against the police by MB that documents a timeline.

There are some 911 calls, which might be public access?

There are a few news stories, fairly brief. One local paper writes a story that is then shared around a network. Whatever brief account the first reporter gives gets duplicated with no additional information. These stories do not give much information. At times they have included technical errors, and they have never been a full account of anything.

Then there are the copious, contradictory, and combatitive contributions made by the victim. Many of those have proven over time to be untrue or exaggerated.

Anyhow, bearing down too hard on any particular sentence from this body of material is futile and frustrating. A great deal on both sides is emotive and exaggerated, it’s performance.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

I vaguely recall that when he wanted to register his dissatisfaction with the way the police had handled things, the response was that the way to do that was to state the complaint in writing, or fill out a form. He instead wanted to talk to the police chief in person, or be given the police chief’s phone number, and those requests were denied.

It seemed to me he was wanting to make criminal complaints….the ones he had been begging the officers to make/investigate all week. You don’t make criminal complaints by running a written statement up a bureaucratic flagpole.

He made a series of 911 calls, the police responded to each one, and he was dissatisfied with how they responded.

I would think that making a statement that he is dissatisfied with the way they handled the emergency calls is a different sort of thing compared to repeating a previous report of an alleged crime. I thought the visit to the police station was the former.

My impression is that PDs are very bureaucratic, with paperwork on everything. For his own civil case against the police, MB would be better off if he had submitted a statement in writing. I 100% believe that any PD would have a procedure for processing citizen complaints about its officers, and that they’d probably want paperwork and signatures and not want people just giving the police chief an earful.

If there were no avenue for him to register a complaint, I agree that would be outrageous. I’m just challenging the idea that he was rebuffed with no opportunity to submit a complaint at all.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Scribbler

Some general comments.

This whole story points out that the police by nature of their function are not very good at solving ongoing disputes between people who know each other. These police appear to have been fairly incompetent of course. But also much of what MB is documented as saying on his 911 calls is not the kind of stuff police can act on. It’s the kind of stuff you need civil action and then a bailiff. You cannot call the police to evict someone without a court order, or to make them sign a contract. It’s also about impossible to get a local police force to act on claims of internet harassment. They will come out for guns, blood, drugs, stolen cars, fisticuffs, etc.

As far as reading tea leaves, we have several sources.

There is the civil suit against the police by MB that documents a timeline.

There are some 911 calls, which might be public access?

There are a few news stories, fairly brief. One local paper writes a story that is then shared around a network. Whatever brief account the first reporter gives gets duplicated with no additional information. These stories do not give much information. At times they have included technical errors, and they have never been a full account of anything.

Then there are the copious, contradictory, and combatitive contributions made by the victim. Many of those have proven over time to be untrue or exaggerated.

Anyhow, bearing down too hard on any particular sentence from this body of material is futile and frustrating. A great deal on both sides is emotive and exaggerated, it’s performance.

You left out IM. I pretty much trust everything IM has said. This latest information on the RC plea deal is exactly consistent with what IM said weeks ago.

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I pretty much trust everything IM has said

The only thing that makes me question IM is that IM admits that their facts are facts that they did not get first hand, they are facts that they were told by LK.

[BrendaJane]

while police might not be able to act on this, they are required to take reports.
so you call 911, theyshould come. You ask for a supervisor, you should see one.