Barisone Jury Deliberation

[Jealoushe]

I feel like the RC gun situation is another example of people being so against LK they can’t admit when someone on MBs side has done something wrong or accept evidence.

It doesn’t have to be black and white. You can support MB and still think RC was not right in doing that.

There is no way based on testimony that RC and others didn’t know what a state MB was in. They testified to it multiple times. In a trance, pacing, outbursts, blank stare, stressed, depressed etc. You can’t tell me she had no idea what his state was.

There is nothing that excuses her handing over the gun. None. Zero. She thought he was putting in the safe for safe keeping? She was wrong. I have my doubts on that but if that is in fact why she gave him the gun, it’s still wrong wrong wrong. Add in her profession and that makes it even more unbelievable. She is so lucky there wasn’t a death.

[trubandloki]

@Jealoushe

I feel like the RC gun situation is another example of people being so against LK they can’t admit when someone on MBs side has done something wrong or accept evidence.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that RC should not have brought her gun with her. So I am confused why you say people are not admitting she did something wrong.

What does one do with the gun once it is there and they know that Bob is sneaking around at night dressed in black, willing to break into an locked office, etc? Safe seems like the perfect place to me. A locked safe is where most people suggest storing a gun.

[FitzE]

Yeah, fair point. I guess I shouldn’t try to engage in civil discourse with someone who has proven time and again s/he will get nasty at the drop of a hat even after keeping up somewhat decent behaviour for a wee while. I guess that veneer is thin indeed.

I was trying to engage with people who see things differently as has been urged here several times. I’ll consider more carefully in future who may and may not be capable of that.

[FitzE]

@trubandloki

I don’t think anyone disagrees that RC should not have brought her gun with her. So I am confused why you say people are not admitting she did something wrong.

Agreed. I think it was a monumentally bad idea in hindsight. I was only addressing the suggestion she should have kept it in her car rather than the safe that MB had access to. They had already been warned by someone with experience to be wary of LK/RG accessing their vehicles. That was my only point; not that what she did was in any way, shape, or form a good idea.

[fordtraktor]

What do y’all anti-safe people think RC should have done with the gun instead? Seriously. What was the better option (other than not having brought it, which is counter-factual). It was there, what then?

[clanter]

@trubandloki

What does one do with the gun once it is there

you separate the gun from the ammunition, have the two in completely segregated places

[iberianfan]

So, my sister posted this on FB today:
Only wise, exceptional people try to understand the other person rather than tell them they’re wrong.

Let us strive to be wise, exceptional people.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Yes, I agree 1,000%. Not to get this booted to Current Events, but I think this demonstrates how adding a gun to any situation immediately ups the stakes as it certainly did in this situation. It shocks and disgusts me to learn how in some areas of the country people will actually keep them in their glove compartments for protection in case they have a fender bender or something.

Guns also make suicide “easier” to be “successful” at, which also makes giving a gun to someone with depression all the more horrific.

However, even in NJ, it doesn’t shock me that horse people would have guns on property. Just from my discussions with people at a variety of barns, support for having guns seems more common on people with farms/in rural areas. There is a sense of “I want to protect my property and I can’t trust anyone else to do it.” And NJ does have deer and bear hunts. It’s not like there is no gun culture in the state. As noted elsewhere, we also do have quite a few transplants in NJ, and people who split their time between FL or the Carolinas, where gun laws are more liberal.

[MHM]

@clanter

@trubandloki

What does one do with the gun once it is there

you separate the gun from the ammunition, have the two in completely segregated places

That’s a fabulous idea. In hindsight.

Of course, it doesn’t actually prevent someone from buying more ammunition.

I said way back on a previous thread that I couldn’t believe RC handed over her gun under those circumstances in the first place, or that she didn’t do anything about the gun as the situation became more clearly out of control.

I can only imagine she feels terrible about that decision now, and always will.

[fordtraktor]

I have guns on my farm and it has nothing to do with protecting my property. It is used to protect the horses/livestock from wildlife. Those cute little opossums carry EPM…having had 1 horse nearly die from it, and the previous owner lost a horse to it…I don’t take any chances with them. I also dispose of raccoons before they kill my chickens (which is a gruesome thing…raccoons kill chickens for fun and will do off with an entire flock).

[eggbutt]

Question to ponder - what will Lauren jump to when USEF bans her?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I certainly wouldn’t mourn the loss of one extra EPM-carrying possum in this world, and that’s definitely a legitimate use for a registered, properly secured gun in the hands of someone who knows how to use it without hurting themself or other human beings. But in a human-human confrontation, having a gun (or multiple guns) always increases the risk of something going wrong when emotions run high.

[DownYonder]

@MHM

I can only imagine she [RC] feels terrible about that decision now, and always will.

Agree. And it seems to me that a certain someone is trying to start a SM campaign to torment RC about that decision. Seems we have seen that MO before…

[floppyammy]

Not that it was done legally (I don’t know enough about gun laws to know if it was or if it wasn’t), but I thought the whole purpose of RC traveling with a gun was, as a 70 yr old woman, driving alone from NC to NJ, for self protection? And once she got to the farm, MB advised to lock it in the safe instead of leaving it in her car, where LK or RG could get their hands on it?

Agree that, had the gun not been on the property, this whole sad incident may never have occurred. But I think you are falsely ascribing intent where there was none…

I feel like this gun discussion is going in circles.

[MHM]

I also wonder how the other hand guns in the safe ended up disabled. Was that a recent development? Was it a result of people being afraid of the possibility of suicide? If that was ever explained, I missed it.

The addition of a gun to the mix definitely turned out to be a disaster.

[BigMama1]

@Rowdy

You sure could have fooled me with the way so many people try to justify his every act. Some even attempt to justify the choices made by RC.

It’s a big leap from understanding how / why MB may be not guilty or not criminally responsible to thinking he’s a hero. When you justify the behaviour of RG and LK should we assume they are your heroes? You sound absurd when you throw these insults and wild accusations around rather than having a civil discussion. What are you trying to achieve by doing that?

[iberianfan]

Something just came to me about why some of us feel one way, and others not. Most of us here that hope for justice for MB have never met the man. But what became clear to us is that he made some very unfortunate mistakes. Nothing LK, RG, JK did was by mistake. It was planned and plotted and evil.

Over the years, we have seen this side of LK. And it has tipped the scales. Some folks think that being shot, being physically harmed, is far worse than any evil behavior. Someone up thread said that words/deeds hurt. I think that MB is far more harmed and that was highly intentional.

[BigMama1]

@Jealoushe

There is nothing that excuses her handing over the gun. None. Zero. She thought he was putting in the safe for safe keeping? She was wrong.

There is plenty that “excuses” her, and storing the gun properly and safely in a secure gun safe would be a prudent thing to do in 99.9% of circumstances. She’s not a psychic. Could she really have predicted, after being in the farm for just one day, that MB would have a psychotic break and use her gun to shoot someone? Is there any reason she should have known that none of the other firearms stored in the safe were in working conditions?

She knew there were firearms on the property. She knew they were secured in a gun safe. She wanted to secure her gun properly there as well. Nothing about that sounds unreasonable at all.

[Angela_Freda]

@Rowdy

She moved her trip up several days (maybe a week) at the request of MH who described how tense the situation had become. I don’t know about you, but I hate barn drama and I try to avoid it. That would have been one week that I had other plans

With your $250k horse there?

[Angela_Freda]

@erinmeri

Was this testified to? Her knowing he had firearms? I don’t recall that. I ride in NJ and I would be SHOCKED if anyone on property had a gun. It isn’t common up north. Giving a gun to lock up (again, questionable decision given MB’s state of mind) doesn’t equal knowing MB had guns.

ETA, I was multitasking but the only testimony I recall with regards to the knowledge of the other guns was JH’s. I may be wrong.

yes.