Barisone Jury Deliberation

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Say_Goodnight_Gracie

I’m sorry for asking a question that I’m SURE has already been discussed ad nauseum, but I just joined in now that the verdict is close and there are thousands of posts to wade through. I’ve seen several mentions that LK perjured herself on the stand – was this proven on the stand by the defense, or do we all just know it due to our background knowledge of the case and are assuming the jury noticed it? Because I feel like with this much craziness to the story they may not have seen it on their own (I never assume anyone notices details anymore!).

I don’t think it’s known that she committed perjury in her testimony.

She admitted to lying on SM, but that’s not sworn testimony, so that’s not perjury.

I’m not certain what posters are referring to when they say she lied on the stand, but I suspect it’s her statement that she did not have recording devices other than the one in her barn locker.

They are assuming she had a listening device in the office clubhouse. However, it has not been established that she did have a listening devices anywhere other than her locker, so I see no evidence of perjury.

Her statements about minute physical details of the actual shooting have varied over time and may have slight inconsistencies with the statements of RG, but an imperfect recall of a traumatic event, especially after almost bleeding out and having been in a coma is imperfect recall, not perjury.

[Sticky_Situation]

I think most employers frown on employees that don’t show up, constantly lie, and talk trash and threaten other people, plus in RG’s case at least he continues to use illegal drugs, so I doubt if anyone is beating down their door wanting to hire them. The problem isn’t the Suboxone … it’s their personalities and behavior!

[Maude]

Is this Day 14? I’ve lost track. Typically, when the jury is out this long it is either hung or rules in the defendant’s favor.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

I don’t know if LK would be on the hook for perjury on that one, though. I seem to recall that she dismissed all that about placing the recording devices as something RG handled.

Whether that is actually the case or not is an entirely different question. But that was her story, and I believe RG went along with it when he testified.

You’re right. I forgot that part.

She’s a slippery snake. Very very slippery.

[hut-ho78]

@jaj

Awful lot of leaning on RC. Girl hate or are you getting paid?

Wow. A lot of people have been shocked at how badly a trained mental health professional got this wrong.

[MHM]

@Maude

Is this Day 14? I’ve lost track. Typically, when the jury is out this long it is either hung or rules in the defendant’s favor.

I believe it is Day 14, although it feels like it’s been a lot longer than that!

They have probably been deliberating for around 19 or 20 hours by this time, depending on whether or not you count watching the video of the psychiatrist’s testimony as deliberation time.

[frugalannie]

Random question: Does anyone know how much jurors are paid in NJ?

Edited to add this: If the jurors aren’t reconvened until next Wednesday, not having notes would be a real issue I would think. Would it be a basis for an appeal?

[hut-ho78]

@MHM

@RegentLion

I feel that it was pretty obvious throughout her time on the stand that her story was inconsistent.

I was distracted so I don’t know how clear that was to the jury, or if it was blatant perjury, but her testimony was unclear and confusing.

I think the part that had to be clear to the jury was that her testimony was completely unreliable.

How many times did she flat out deny saying something in a text or a post, only to have the lawyer hand her the piece of paper to verify that she had made that exact statement? I lost count, but I think it was a pretty high number.

So if the jury was paying the tiniest bit of attention, they should have been able to grasp that her word was absolutely worthless.

Exactly where that behavior crosses the legal line into perjury, I don’t know.

So everyone who had their memory refreshed was lying? Who is left then? The character witnesses? Your view impeaches all the mental health experts, all the lawyer friends, MHG, some LE and medical staff, RG, and LK.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@FitzE

@CurrentlyHorseless

Really? The whole discussion of The World’s Shortest Flounce TM wasn’t mockery?

I did belatedly wonder if Rowdy got his/her nose out of joint over that. But then I remembered it was in reaction to him/her calling us all cockroaches and stupid so I figured someone who slings around that kind of name calling and now accusing a very nice, civil poster (@trubandloki) of wishing LK had actually been murdered, I figured there’s no way someone capable of that behaviour would see that as mockery. I mean, I didn’t even insult him/her directly, belittle his/her intelligence, disparage his/her profession/professional competence.

I figured someone who posts as s/he posts could not possibly have gotten their knickers twisted about being rightfully called out for doing a scorched earth flounce only to return a very short time later. Again, calling people on their nonsense/drama is not mean.

Oh, it’s a “scorched earth flounce” now?

And you were “rightfully calling her out” on it?

In my view, her posts have merely been “calling people out on their nonsense/drama”, which you characterize as “not mean”.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Maude

Is this Day 14? I’ve lost track. Typically, when the jury is out this long it is either hung or rules in the defendant’s favor.

Yes. Day 14.

I did the math. And used conservative estimates, trying to eliminate time for lunch, questions, etc. They deliberated a bit over 1 hour on Monday. Between 6 & 7 hours on Tuesday. A bit over 5 hours yesterday was spent on actual deliberation. They spent around 2 hours listening to all of Dr. Simring’s testimony again. He was the defense psychiatrist who diagnosed MB with a delusional disorder of the persecutory type. And she far… they have been deliberating for about 2 hours today.

So… that’s a minimum of 14 hours deliberating, plus another 2 during which they listened to the testimony of an expert witness who spoke about the specific psychiatric diagnosis central to the issue of NGI.

My suspicion is that they are stuck on the issue of NGI right now. Who knows what the split is in terms of jurors who believe he is NGI, and those who don’t.

[MorganSercu]

Lauren’s stated purpose was to destroy him which she set out to do.

He is not perfect. He should not have shot her (I still suspect he was afraid of her dog with a history of biting). But he spent DECADES seeking and getting help for his issues. He had BUILT something for himself. He made it to the Olympics for crying out loud. Lauren, Rob and possibly some direct guidance from JK harassed and tormented him - because they could.

[punchy]

@hut-ho78

@jaj

Awful lot of leaning on RC. Girl hate or are you getting paid?

Wow. A lot of people have been shocked at how badly a trained mental health professional got this wrong.

Physician, heal thyself.

RC screwed up. She knows it. Not a lot left to see here, folks.

[jaj]

Love you.

[MorganSercu]

Slimy = mucus. I vote for a hagfish.

[hut-ho78]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@RegentLion

I feel that it was pretty obvious throughout her time on the stand that her story was inconsistent.

I was distracted so I don’t know how clear that was to the jury, or if it was blatant perjury, but her testimony was unclear and confusing.

There was blatant perjury over the issue of placing multiple illegal recording devices around the farm. A blind squirrel could have identified it after listening to multiple witnesses (beyond just LK and RG) testify.

I’m not sure anyone will hold her accountable for it though. It was not an issue central to the elements of the crimes MB is being charged with.

It should be an issue in the civil suit though, I would imagine.

They paid $5000 for a sweep and no one testified that they found any illegal ones. If someone did, please help me find that testimony because I’m still looking for it.

What they testified to was private conversations being repeated on SM by LK which sounds a lot more like barn gossip and indiscreet confidants.

[DownYonder]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

There was blatant perjury over the issue of placing multiple illegal recording devices around the farm. A blind squirrel could have identified it after listening to multiple witnesses (beyond just LK and RG) testify.

But wouldn’t charges have to be brought by the DA’s office? The same office that seems intent on overlooking the negligence of the PD in securing the crime scene and performing forensics related to the crime scene? The same office that believes its two star witnesses do not lie and certainly didn’t lie while under oath? The same office that appears to have a mentality of “We better win this case or there will be h*** to pay”? (And gee, I wonder who they are referring to that might dish out that h***?)

IOW, the criminal justice system in that jurisdiction has circled the wagons and is protecting their own. It’s like using the fox to guard the henhouse.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

Court Tv shows the current jury deliberation time as 17:26:08
That includes the time for video replay

[DownYonder]

@hut-ho78

Rowdy’s contributions add more depth to the discussion.

Yes, we get deeper into the muck heap.

[hut-ho78]

@Sdel

@RegentLion

She clearly had no idea how deep his delusions ran, and they probably seemed somewhat reasonable based on LK/RG’s history of behavior.

Yes, I’m sure it was hard to tell how deep it ran, since it seems like everywhere they turned the basis of the delusions kept getting proven to be actually happening. And everyone testified to being terrified.

That was Dr Schlesinger’s point.

[Sdel]

@hut-ho78

So everyone who had their memory refreshed was lying? Who is left then? The character witnesses? Your view impeaches all the mental health experts, all the lawyer friends, MHG, some LE and medical staff, RG, and LK.

Not very many of the other witnesses had to have their memory refreshed about threatening FB posts or about their ability access his office to forge signatures, mess with contracts, or “anything else they might need to do”……after being asked if she had ever threatened him on FB or could access his office….