Barisone News

[Angela_Freda]

@MHM

I can imagine wanting to get the dog completely out of the way by putting it inside the house. Especially if I thought for one second that the police might decide to shoot it

But I would ask or tell the P.O. what I was doing and why, or ask “can I toss the dog inside so its out of the way?”.
I can’t imagine just doing it, but also going out of the cops sight.

[rothmpp]

@Angela_Freda

I can’t fathom an officer accepting the claim of one person on scene as to who shooter is, not handcuffing everyone, and then also allowing that person to leave the immediate scene (go into the house) for any length if time.

I have two friends who are police officers and I asked them this question, separately:

“You’re the first, and solo, officer on site responding to a active shooter call. You arrive to find three people. One is on the ground not moving, clearly shot. Second is on their stomach on the ground being pinned down by the third person. What is the very first thing you do?”

Both answered “Secure both the second and third person until backup arrives.”

Follow up question “Would either the second or third person in that scenario be allowed to wander the scene unsupervised and potentially out of sight before any backup arrived?”

Both answered “No. That’s how officers potentially get injured.”

FWIW.

One is a relatively recent academy grad - has been a active officer for the last three years or so, the second one is a 15 year active officer. They do not work for the same municipality so it is not a department specific training.

[Angela_Freda]

I did not hear the cop say he directed RG to do so either.

[trubandloki]

@rothmpp

They do not work for the same municipality so it is not a department specific training.

No, it is common sense training!
Smart, keep yourself and other alive type training.

Lots of things show that the training at this force is VERY lacking.

[endlessclimb]

For the full size 9mm, I agree. For the LCP, that sucker will jam just the same as the cheapo.

[Angela_Freda]

Both can be true

@Jenerationx

One one hand yes, he could have used the opportunity to conceal something. On the other, a dog running around isn’t going to make for a very secure scene either, especially with more first responders on the way.

[eggbutt]

@rothmpp

@Angela_Freda

I can’t fathom an officer accepting the claim of one person on scene as to who shooter is, not handcuffing everyone, and then also allowing that person to leave the immediate scene (go into the house) for any length if time.

I have two friends who are police officers and I asked them this question, separately:

“You’re the first, and solo, officer on site responding to a active shooter call. You arrive to find three people. One is on the ground not moving, clearly shot. Second is on their stomach on the ground being pinned down by the third person. What is the very first thing you do?”

Both answered “Secure both the second and third person until backup arrives.”

Follow up question “Would either the second or third person in that scenario be allowed to wander the scene unsupervised and potentially out of sight before any backup arrived?”

Both answered “No. That’s how officers potentially get injured.”

FWIW.

One is a relatively recent academy grad - has been a active officer for the last three years or so, the second one is a 15 year active officer. They do not work for the same municipality so it is not a department specific training.

That’s interesting. A close friend of mine also asked a prosecutor, cop and two lawyers the same thing this morning. All said it would be a serious problem for that to have occurred - the cop said the officer would be sent for additional training and receive a writeup for his file at a minimum. The prosecutor said if he was aware of the circumstance, he would have serious questions about any case the state might have.

[Syrynx]

I live in NJ, in a smaller town a little northwest from where this took place. Many years ago, DH was looking for a pesky groundhog in our back field with his rifle. Someone came on the property surprising him and let’s just say, we received a visit from 3 officers a few hours later to discuss what had happened.

It was the summer and the discussion, which was quite cordial, took place on our back deck. Things looked like they might take a bad turn so I said I had to go inside to get my phone to cancel a business trip (a car was about to come pick me up).

The sergeant said that is fine, but one of my officers must accompany you and please do not make any sudden moves.

All ended well and we actually became great friends with the sergeant who we just met that day. Granted there were 3 officers and no one was even remotely injured and the atmosphere was quite calm and normal. But still, I was not allowed to leave that deck unaccompanied.

[Angela_Freda]

@FitzE

So, one LEO shows up and asks who the shooter was. A person in control of another person says, he was. The LEO then allows that first person to go into the house (who cares for what reason, forget the dog altogether). Turns out, that person was the shooter and just went in and got another firearm…

…because the first one jammed

The fact that alternate events are plausible, due to what appears to be an insecure scene, is the problem.

[eggbutt]

So now the interesting question is did Shellhorn, the prosecutor, know about this fiasco and ignore it? Bilinkas did a good job of putting it on the table for all to see IMO.

[Sdel]

If you want to go down speculation drive….let’s review the charges for RC.

The complainant is the same officer that testified yesterday. The one who appears to have made several missteps with the crime scene.

Then notice that LK filed her civil suit naming RC as the gun owner the next day.

And then we have a confusing mess of the fact that there are “charges”, an arrest, but no independent evidence that they were acted on (on the contrary, claims they are not being acted on and RC isn’t testifying) and RC actually found guilty of the charges.

[cutter99]

WOW! If I were a citizen of Washington Twp., I am not sure I would feel so secure or safe- especially if nothing has changed in that department since this incident.

In rural situations in Pennsylvania, where law enforcement resources are stretched, the PA State Police cover many areas. We were lucky enough to have a barracks fairly close, and their quick response was always appreciated.

It does not sound like NJ operates the same way!

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@MorganSercu

@LilRanger

I believe the officer stated he was aware of the situation at the farm before he responded, so he already knew how the parties were aligned and who the other officers believed were the at-risk vs risky individuals.

But he had never met any of them, so why would he take either man’s word as being truthful (identity)?

When the officer said he was aware of the situation at the farm, perhaps that meant that he knew that the owner of the farm had called 911 5 times that week complaining about harassment and worse from the two tenants, a woman and her boyfriend.

Then a 911 call comes in with a woman saying that she had been shot and saying MB shot her. You then arrive at the scene and see a woman shot in the chest, and one man restraining another. If you already knew the tension was between farm owner and the tenant couple, it’s extremely natural to assume it’s the victim’s boyfriend restraining the person who shot her.

Since LK had mentioned MB by name in the 911 call, the cop could have asked, “which one of you is MB?”

I doubt the cop had the time to think of any scenarios other than the obvious one in those first few minutes. Are you saying that perhaps RG was the shooter, shot his own girlfriend, and when he blamed MB, MB was too dazed to say, “no, I wasn’t the shooter?” And that the cop was supposed to take that possible scenario into account before letting RG put the dog in the house?

The police responded promptly enough and capably enough to save LKs life. By saving LKs life, MB is not facing a murder charge. I think all the tut tutting about how the police handled the situation is out of line.

Now if they failed to test all the bullets recovered from the scene to determine that all were shot from the gun recovered from under MB, that would be bad. But no one has claimed that, as far as I know.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Then a 911 call comes in with a woman saying that she had been shot and saying MB shot her. You then arrive at the scene and see a woman shot in the chest, and one man restraining another. If you already knew the tension was between farm owner and the tenant couple, it’s extremely natural to assume it’s the victim’s boyfriend restraining the person who shot her.

The officer testified to two males……that were later identified as RG and MB. The officer didn’t know who was who at the time and didn’t testify that RG had identified himself in any way.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@MorganSercu

@LilRanger

I believe the officer stated he was aware of the situation at the farm before he responded, so he already knew how the parties were aligned and who the other officers believed were the at-risk vs risky individuals.

But he had never met any of them, so why would he take either man’s word as being truthful (identity)?

When the officer said he was aware of the situation at the farm, perhaps that meant that he knew that the owner of the farm had called 911 5 times that week complaining about harassment and worse from the two tenants, a woman and her boyfriend.

Then a 911 call comes in with a woman saying that she had been shot and saying MB shot her. You then arrive at the scene and see a woman shot in the chest, and one man restraining another. If you already knew the tension was between farm owner and the tenant couple, it’s extremely natural to assume it’s the victim’s boyfriend restraining the person who shot her.

Since LK had mentioned MB by name in the 911 call, the cop could have asked, “which one of you is MB?”

I doubt the cop had the time to think of any scenarios other than the obvious one in those first few minutes. Are you saying that perhaps RG was the shooter, shot his own girlfriend, and when he blamed MB, MB was too dazed to say, “no, I wasn’t the shooter?” And that the cop was supposed to take that possible scenario into account before letting RG put the dog in the house?

The police responded promptly enough and capably enough to save LKs life. By saving LKs life, MB is not facing a murder charge. I think all the tut tutting about how the police handled the situation is out of line.

Now if they failed to test all the bullets recovered from the scene to determine that all were shot from the gun recovered from under MB, that would be bad. But no one has claimed that, as far as I know.

The issue is a question of not following standard LEO crime scene protocol, a door has been opened for questions. I would be furious if I was the Plaintiff at this point with the “unknown” now in plain view heading in to a jury trial.

[Jenerationx]

@Jealoushe

When I ran out of my house from my attacker the first thing I did was take my three dogs and lock them in the barn, before I got in my car and drove off

This. You never know how you’re going to react with so many things going on. People were implying RG should have been more concerned about LK and ignored the dog, but I can see putting the dog away to be second nature, just something you do in the moment.

@CurrentlyHorseless

If you already knew the tension was between farm owner and the tenant couple, it’s extremely natural to assume it’s the victim’s boyfriend restraining the person who shot her.

It’s an officer’s job not to make those assumptions though. Even if he personally had dealt with ALL of the parties before, a cop is not supposed to assume who is dangerous and who is not as things can change at any given second.

[Angela_Freda]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I doubt the cop had the time to think of any scenarios other than the obvious one in those first few minutes.

There is no “obvious” scenario.
To suggest there is suggests bias.

[Syrynx]

In my town in NJ, town police cover during the day and state police pick up at night, I think between 10 pm and 6 am but I’m not entirely sure. It was a big controversy back when the town cut back on their force and still comes up today from time to time.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Angela_Freda

@CurrentlyHorseless

I doubt the cop had the time to think of any scenarios other than the obvious one in those first few minutes.

There is no “obvious” scenario.
To suggest there is suggests bias.

If there’s a 911 call in which the caller says she has been shot by Michael Barisone, and you arrive and see a woman laying on a concrete pad with two wounds in her chest, the “obvious” to me situation is that she was shot by a guy named Michael Barisone.

[CanteringCarrot]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Angela_Freda

@CurrentlyHorseless

I doubt the cop had the time to think of any scenarios other than the obvious one in those first few minutes.

There is no “obvious” scenario.
To suggest there is suggests bias.

If there’s a 911 call in which the caller says she has been shot by Michael Barisone, and you arrive and see a woman laying on a concrete pad with two wounds in her chest, the “obvious” to me situation is that she was shot by a guy named Michael Barisone.

How does the responding officer know who/which guy is Michael Barisone though?

Yeah, he’s somewhat of a “figure” but it’s also possible someone, especially not horsey, might not recognize him.