This wasn’t directed at me, and my input in this conversation has been limited to the occasional quip, but here’s my two cents anyway.
If “Joe Shmoe” called CPS for illegitimate and/or unverifiable reasons (whether or not you did and why or why not is not what I am debating here) and then shortly after was shot by the person he called CPS on, I think a majority of us here would say that yes, Joe Shmoe’s actions played a role in what followed. That doesn’t mean that shooting is an appropriate response from the accused, but one should take responsibility for their behaviors that might have led to such an incident.Even calling CPS on someone for legitimate reasons comes with risks, the main one likely being the potential for retaliation from the accused. Again, doesn’t make it right or even remotely close to OK, but it does happen.
I can see these supposed conversations about plotting to kill her, knowing LK could overhear or even being aware it was being taped, as part of the game of trying to get her to leave, along with the 911 calls MB made. All part of harassing her, they wanted her gone.
At some point MB decided to do it. MH could say she really didn’t think he would, it was all just talk. Just like LK didn’t think he really would.
I have been in a situation where I wanted a roommate gone. She broke the terms of the lease, so I asked her to leave at the end of the next month. She responded by being manipulative, condescending, petty and cruel. It escalated to the point of both us calling the police on each other and her threatening to squat. It de-escalated when I ceased all communication with her - mainly by selling off the common room furniture (it was mine, anyways) to create a neutral space (think DMZ), and each of us mutually agreeing to sequester to our rooms. She left at the end of 30 days.
I think she’s an awful person, and I’m sure she thinks I’m an awful person. The truth is in the middle.
I know this is going to get me tarred and feathered by several posters as victim shaming, but I just don’t care at this point.
Lauren - no matter how much you try to spin it, you played a role in the events that preceded the shooting. You were not a completely benign, innocent bystander that got caught in the crossfire. You gloated prior to the shooting about collecting “career-ending” information on someone. Your actions, intended or not, got CPS involved. These are not the actions of someone who “does not enjoy drama”. Someone who does not enjoy drama would say “This is no longer working for me. I am the paying client, and I am going to find a situation that will work better for me”. And then do just that. Not spend weeks collecting information with the intention of destroying the careers of everyone at the barn.
While several of us have pointed out that someone who was the traveling alternate for an Olympic games and the trainer of a Olympic medalist is, in fact a BNT, there are plenty more BNTs out there that would have been happy to take on your string of fancy horses. Riders change trainers all the time. It is not career-ending.
If somewhere in these multiple long threads, you’d have just said “Yeah, maybe I could’ve handled some of the preceding events better” we’d still all think there was NO excuse for MB shooting you, but many of us might have more sympathy for you. Like it or not, you do carry some of the blame for the relationship having gone sour. Though certainly not for him having chosen to shoot you. You have NOT ONCE admitted that MAYBE you could’ve done SOME things differently, and MAYBE the outcome would have been different.
QUOTE: Dragonfly90: I can see these supposed conversations about plotting to kill her, knowing LK could overhear or even being aware it was being taped, as part of the game of trying to get her to leave, along with the 911 calls MB made. All part of harassing her, they wanted her gone.
At some point MB decided to do it. MH could say she really didn’t think he would, it was all just talk. Just like LK didn’t think he really would. END QUOTE
I couldn’t seem to quote two posters. These two ideas conflict. Either MB wanted her to stay, threatening her career, or he wanted her to go. Can’t have it both ways. Unless I have missed something, which is entirely possible.
If they are on the same page you simply hit the quote option at the bottom of all the posts you want to quote. Only one will show in the response window until you go to the yellow button that is at the upper left. It says “Post Reply (number of quoted posts)”. Once you hit that all the posts (on that page) that you have quoted will appear in the response box.
If they are on different pages you can either copy and paste the quotes to this response window or do it manually with
[ quote = username ] body of quote [ / quote ] (no spaces).
I’ve been away from this thread for days and have only just caught up, but the owner of the gun used in the shooting has come up again? Didn’t LK say that the pink Ruger used in the attack was RCs?
I assume you are expecting tar and feathers from me. But your post here is light years away from the posts I was characterizing as victim blaming.
Re; “blame for the relationship having gone sour”. A bunch of years ago, my relationship with a previously adored trainer went “sour” and I stayed for another 6 months before leaving.
I did play a “role” in the relationship going “sour”. My trainer was married to a vet and insisted that her clients use (and of course, pay), her husband as their vet, even though I already had a 15 year relationship with my vet of choice. Nevertheless, I used her husband as my vet for a while until there was a soundness issue such that I realized I clearly wanted my “own vet”. As politely and respectfully as I could, I stated my preference for using a vet other than the husband, stressing I meant no disrespect to him personally or professionally. She informed me that since she was the trainer and I was an amateur, she knew better, and her husband was the better vet; and she gets to make the decision. I said, still no disrespect to the husband, but it’s my horse and my money, so I insist on getting to choose my own vet. She told me my desire to choose the vet was disrespectful of her.
I insisted, and switched back to my own vet. From that point I was subjected general disrespect and poor treatment from her.
It is clear in my mind in retrospect that the relationship soured because I declined to let her intimidate me into hiring, and more importantly paying $$$, to the husband. On a related note, my credit card was on file at the feed store supposedly to be used for feed for my own horse, and I strongly suspect I may have been feeding her horse as well as mine, to some degree, but I never brought that up.
When the disrespect and bad treatment got bad enough I left. She never asked me to leave, and tried to manipulate me into NOT leaving! She is frosty with me to this day, 10 years later and my interpretation is that my crime is leaving her program. What she wanted, and apparently expected, was that I would stay and put up with the conflicts of interest, the disrespect, the low level embezzlement, and the bad treatment just because she was the better rider. In fairness to her, she was a newbie trainer at the time, and hopefully has updated her perceptions of what clients will put up with before taking their money elsewhere.
Did something I did contribute to the relationship souring?Absolutely, I insisted on the right to choose my own vet. Is it my “fault” that the relationship soured? Only if you think it is not acceptable for a client to choose their own vet.
Back to the CPS issue: IF Lauren called in FALSE allegations of child abuse to either SS or CPS, and that is why they showed up, that would be harassment and very nasty and very wrong. On the other hand, *IF she honestly called in an allegation of bullying to SS, and that sets (indeterministic) dominoes falling with CPS showing up, while she played a “role” in the events that transpired, I don’t see that she is morally at fault for what happened. That’s why I think it matters a great deal whether she “called CPS with false allegations of child abuse” or whether CPS got a referral from SS that resulted from follow up over a bullying report.
So saying that she did something that caused the relationship to sour, like, for example, declining to sign documents that altered the financial terms in MBs favor, or calling in a legitimate complaint of bullying to SS, and that got him angry, is very, very different was than saying that MB is the victim here, and that LK should take responsibility for her own shooting and for MB going to prison.
If you are going to say “there’s almost always fault that can be laid on both sides” I agree. But it was remarkable that in these threads pretty much ALL the fault has been attributed to Lauren (Why didn’t you leave? You were squatting! You called in false allegations in to CPS! You were screaming outside his windows at night!) despite the fact that, to me, there is no evidence she was asked to leave, they were not squatting, there is no evidence she called in a false allegation to CPS, and there is no evidence she was screaming outside his windows). Despite the post from GWE saying she was defending MB against attacks, I have seen ZERO attacks on MB on these threads (other than my referring to him as quasi-Olympic, for which I have apologized). As recently as yesterday, GWE was still saying that MB is the victim.
So saying she “played a role” in events and saying she is “morally at fault” for the tragedy are two very different things.
ETA If Lauren coming on and saying “Yeah, maybe I could’ve handled some of the preceding events better” stops the bashing, trashing and insults, I will eat my entire inventory of tar and feathers.
Wait…maybe I’m going to show my ignorance here, but if the gun owner is unknown, then how does RC have a federal warrant? Because IIRC the suit was against several people that could possibly own the gun which led me to believe the owner was still not formally identified.
Well the title of the thread is “Barisone pleads not guilty” to attempted murder and she’s the one he (allegedly!) attempted to murder. So you think it’s inappropriate for her to think that this thread is about her?
Ah, fair enough, I was going on LKs own comment on an old, totally unrelated, post of RCs where she said (amongst other things) “your idiotic c & tacky pink Ruger jammed …. putting only two bullets in my chest- center mass”, I assumed from that that LK was SURE it was RCs gun.
LK also has said that Ruth Cox has been criminally charged with gun violations. However, in NJ official information on criminal charges does not appear in searchable databases until after conviction, so her claim cannot be verified via internet search.
She said several times it was a Federal warrant for her arrest. Not sure where to search that. Again Ruth could have alternate legal names. Like myself, I have a name I go by and a legal name that is totally different.
One of the ways to verify the existence of a federal warrant is to look in the NCIC. Only LE has access to that. Or you can look it up via the federal district court from which it originates, or a pay third-party website. I found one called GovernmentRegistry.org which searches federal databases. I’d rather not use this while on my school’s network.
A warrant can be issued for a stolen gun or for a recovered gun (to verify ownership).
