Barisone Pleads Not Guilty

[GreenWithEnvy]

@Wilbury Pie

Okay, folks how about getting on with life. This thread is becoming quite something, not in a good way.

Doesn’t matter what side of the fence you’re on, or if you’re sitting on the fence post itself.

Recipes, dog breeds versus mutts, favourite brands of dental floss…anything is better than the endless back and forth on this topic with no new information or insight.

Sorry, but IMO there was new info tonight on the placement of MB’s truck and how that figures into possible premeditated attempted murder.

[GiveEmEl]

@La-LaPopRider

I honestly wasn’t trying to attack you, either. I may have incorrectly assumed, you, like the majority of other posters have seen the footage. I was just trying to better explain why & how he would’ve thought a 2pm shooting would bear no witnesses. Apologies.

Also, I agree - it is hard to wrap ones head around anyone getting a gun and trying to murder people. We, ourselves, clearly didn’t wrap our heads around it. We never thought getting shot and almost killed was even remotely a reality. Well… maybe REMOTELY. But not anywhere near a serious worry. Even AFTER hearing what we were hearing.

Ah, I understand what you were saying. I think maybe the caps threw me off in terms of tone. And it’s always hard to guess someone’s tone on the internet!
Hearing this really makes me regret the times I’ve said “I’m gonna kill you” when I’m joking with friends about them being annoying or something.
Really just an all out crazy event. I do hope you continue to heal well.
As they say, hindsight is always 20/20! (In terms of not thinking it was serious and now realizing it was)

[CanteringCarrot]

@La-LaPopRider

Yes. It was a civil dispute - but not a landlord tenant dispute at its core. My father (when he said “landlord/tenant dispute” ) was way more concerned about the call hearing I was shot than using longer, alternate legal terminology.

Mb makes about 9 totally different claims in his 911 calls. If you listen very carefully, you can hear him pause a few times to hear what the person coaching him was telling him to “add on.” I can’t hear what’s being said- only the pauses which result in extra, random & false accusations being made. If it were (at its core) a landlord ten dispute- why mention that we were at the barn at 9 pm? That’s what time we were supposed to be there. I can’t elaborate on that so asking more about it would be pointless. Sorry… not being sarcastic- just saying honestly I can’t elaborate.

Oh interesting, I didn’t consider that he was being coached by someone.

I understand if you can’t elaborate. This seems quite multi faceted…a lot was going on. More than we can know.

[AnotherRound]

@GreenWithEnvy

I’m still dumbfounded that surveillance equipment was installed in a private barn without the owner’s permission. Insane.

Not just the “Private barn” but that barn was also the owner’s new residence, since she wouldn’t leave the house, and he and his family was afraid of her and her boyfriend in the house. According to the articles written. I’ll be very surprised if that is considered a public place without reasonable expectation of privacy.

[Manni01]

@rothmpp

I know this is going to get me tarred and feathered by several posters as victim shaming, but I just don’t care at this point.

Lauren - no matter how much you try to spin it, you played a role in the events that preceded the shooting. You were not a completely benign, innocent bystander that got caught in the crossfire. You gloated prior to the shooting about collecting “career-ending” information on someone. Your actions, intended or not, got CPS involved. These are not the actions of someone who “does not enjoy drama”. Someone who does not enjoy drama would say “This is no longer working for me. I am the paying client, and I am going to find a situation that will work better for me”. And then do just that. Not spend weeks collecting information with the intention of destroying the careers of everyone at the barn.

While several of us have pointed out that someone who was the traveling alternate for an Olympic games and the trainer of a Olympic medalist is, in fact a BNT, there are plenty more BNTs out there that would have been happy to take on your string of fancy horses. Riders change trainers all the time. It is not career-ending.

If somewhere in these multiple long threads, you’d have just said “Yeah, maybe I could’ve handled some of the preceding events better” we’d still all think there was NO excuse for MB shooting you, but many of us might have more sympathy for you. Like it or not, you do carry some of the blame for the relationship having gone sour. Though certainly not for him having chosen to shoot you. You have NOT ONCE admitted that MAYBE you could’ve done SOME things differently, and MAYBE the outcome would have been different.

Yes yes yes!! And I will go even further and will become probably really getting teared and feathered… I think its not only both parties which are partly at fault, but it is also USDF and probably also USEF which are partly responsible for this tragic incident…
.
Why did LK choose Dressage as the Sport she wants to do… Why did she not decide to play tennis…
I supect I know why… In tennis, you have to work and to work even harder and then you have to work more to win any match…

In Dressage you buy some expensive horses, you choose an accomplished trainer, you pay expensive show fees which are a barrier for many potential competitors already and then you are good to go… You see all these beautiful horses and the beautiful fashion which goes with it… And you know that its so expensive that 90 of the people can not afford it… Somehow the hard work and dedication which still goes into it if you want to make it to the top got lost in the US… LK posted a picture of herself and IW… She probably did not even think how IW made her way up… She did not buy expensive horses, she worked her butt up in a barn with a trainer who had a reputation for not being easy… She made it because she worked hard and then she worked harder… And other then that you hardly heard anything about things which went wrong…

In the US showing Dressage is about money… the more money you invest, the more expectations you have that you will be successful…

LK is probably a victim of this system because she has not enough knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes and believed if she just paid enough money she would make it… The trainer was a victim because he did not fully understand how naive this client was (together with a little tricky personality…). He just thought take the money of this client, which is pretty normal, he had no idea about the missing knowledge and expectations of this specific client… And USDF is partly responsible because they formed the system to the current Status… You pay and pay and pay and the sportsmanship is not really that important anymore…

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

Yes yes yes!! And I will go even further and will become probably really getting teared and feathered… I think its not only both parties which are partly at fault, but it is also USDF and probably also USEF which are partly responsible for this tragic incident…
.
Why did LK choose Dressage as the Sport she wants to do… Why did she not decide to play tennis…
I supect I know why… In tennis, you have to work and to work even harder and then you have to work more to win any match…

In Dressage you buy some expensive horses, you choose an accomplished trainer, you pay expensive show fees which are a barrier for many potential competitors already and then you are good to go… You see all these beautiful horses and the beautiful fashion which goes with it… And you know that its so expensive that 90 of the people can not afford it… Somehow the hard work and dedication which still goes into it if you want to make it to the top got lost in the US… LK posted a picture of herself and IW… She probably did not even think how IW made her way up… She did not buy expensive horses, she worked her butt up in a barn with a trainer who had a reputation for not being easy… She made it because she worked hard and then she worked harder… And other then that you hardly heard anything about things which went wrong…

In the US showing Dressage is about money… the more money you invest, the more expectations you have that you will be successful…

LK is probably a victim of this system because she has not enough knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes and believed if she just paid enough money she would make it… The trainer was a victim because he did not fully understand how naive this client was (together with a little tricky personality…). He just thought take the money of this client, which is pretty normal, he had no idea about the missing knowledge and expectations of this specific client… And USDF is partly responsible because they formed the system to the current Status… You pay and pay and pay and the sportsmanship is not really that important anymore…

Ok, I know my efforts will be futile here but riding dressage, owning a horse, being able to compete said horse are all luxeries. These things don’t have to be affordable to everyone. It’d be nice if these things were more affordable in the US, but it doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to compete, you can choose a more affordable sport even.

I know that you have this long standing grudge against the USDF and any competitor that even gives the appearance of having money, but if you don’t like it, don’t support it. Don’t be a member. Or be the catalyst for change. It’s not someone’s fault if they have more money than you and choose to use it to fuel their success.

I get what you’re saying about USDF and USEF creating a construct where money is potentially more valuable than skill and horsemanship, but I think it’s a stretch to say they have any fault. People need to be responsible for their own actions. They need to be aware. The consumer needs to be their own advocate. If someone chooses to not do any of the aforementioned, that’s on them.

If someone wants to blindly toss their money, then so be it. If a trainer wants to take advantage, so be it. It is wrong, but people themselves need to be wise.

I think in most sports the more money you have can be an advantage, you can afford better gear and equipment, you can afford better coaching. I do think having money can put you ahead, but that’s life. Life isn’t fair. Some work does have to be put in by the competitor though. I cannot say that some rich person can walk in off the street and ride an upper level test.

I don’t know LK’s riding history or how hard she has worked, so I won’t comment or make assumptions about it. Do you know her riding experience?

I’m sorry that you’re so sour about dressage in the US.

[CanteringCarrot]

If I planted recording devices for sound and video in someone’s stable here, I’d get the boot and probably a lawsuit. And labeled crazy.

You cannot just do that. If the owner does have surveillance they most post notice about it. For example, at the entrances of the property and around the stable where it is easily visible. Otherwise it is illegal.

It is a “private property” not the public sphere.
”‹”‹”‹”‹
But I don’t know how that all goes on the US and how it varies by state.

[Manni01]

@CanteringCarrot

Ok, I know my efforts will be futile here but riding dressage, owning a horse, being able to compete said horse are all luxeries. These things don’t have to be affordable to everyone. It’d be nice if these things were more affordable in the US, but it doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to compete, you can choose a more affordable sport even.

I know that you have this long standing grudge against the USDF and any competitor that even gives the appearance of having money, but if you don’t like it, don’t support it. Don’t be a member. Or be the catalyst for change. It’s not someone’s fault if they have more money than you and choose to use it to fuel their success.

I get what you’re saying about USDF and USEF creating a construct where money is potentially more valuable than skill and horsemanship, but I think it’s a stretch to say they have any fault. People need to be responsible for their own actions. They need to be aware. The consumer needs to be their own advocate. If someone chooses to not do any of the aforementioned, that’s on them.

If someone wants to blindly toss their money, then so be it. If a trainer wants to take advantage, so be it. It is wrong, but people themselves need to be wise.

I think in most sports the more money you have can be an advantage, you can afford better gear and equipment, you can afford better coaching. I do think having money can put you ahead, but that’s life. Life isn’t fair. Some work does have to be put in by the competitor though. I cannot say that some rich person can walk in off the street and ride an upper level test.

I don’t know LK’s riding history or how hard she has worked, so I won’t comment or make assumptions about it. Do you know her riding experience?

I’m sorry that you’re so sour about dressage in the US.

Hope you are happy that you found a way to do a hit at me… And this from the perspective of somebody who pays 50 bucks per year for a show license and 11 bucks per class… Don’t you think you don’t even know what you are talking about?? How many years have you shown in the US?? how many clinics have you ridden in in the US???

And BTW you asked about the foundation of my post… Its based on what LK said in several threads in this board… She did explicitly say that she did not know about the requirements for the Bronze medal because she thought she had 3 horses and just wanted to ride and not focus on anything else…

If she just did 3rd level last year with bought horses not knowing much about rules, she has probably not lifelong experience as a dressage rider who worked her way up…

And her statement that MB girl friend wanted to buy her horses ist another proof for my assumption… She bought horses and obviously they are nice horses and obviously MB´s girl friend did not have the same money to buy the same quality of horses at this point… LK did not make the horse if anybody put work into it it was the trainer… So… Its all about money… My horse is nicer then your horse and I don’t want to sell it to you…
Be honest, have you ever thought like this??? I think this way of thinking is special. (BTW on both sides…). And that’s exactly what is killing the sport…

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

Hope you are happy that you found a way to do a hit at me… And this from the perspective of somebody who pays 50 bucks per year for a show license and 11 bucks per class… Don’t you think you don’t even know what you are talking about?? How many years have you shown in the US?? how many clinics have you ridden in in the US???

And BTW you asked about the foundation of my post… Its based on what LK said in several threads in this board… She did explicitly say that she did not know about the requirements for the Bronze medal because she thought she had 3 horses and just wanted to ride and not focus on anything else…

If she just did 3rd level last year with bought horses not knowing much about rules, she has probably not lifelong experience as a dressage rider who worked her way up…

And her statement that MB girl friend wanted to buy her horses ist another proof for my assumption… She bought horses and obviously they are nice horses and obviously MB´s girl friend did not have the same money to buy the same quality of horses at this point… LK did not make the horse if anybody put work into it it was the trainer… So… Its all about money… My horse is nicer then your horse and I don’t want to sell it to you…
Be honest, have you ever thought like this??? I think this way of thinking is special. (BTW on both sides…). And that’s exactly what is killing the sport…

Goodness. I am not looking to find a way to “do a hit at you” but I really should know better at this point to be lured into these conversations. How do you know how much a pay for a show?

Why are you taking hits at me as if I know nothing? I lived in the US for quite some time. I competed in the US. I took regular clinics in the US. I do know what I am talking about, but thank you for automatically assuming that I don’t. You don’t get to play the “insulted victim” while also taking hits at me. Sorry.

There is always someone that has more than you, yeah, it sucks. For example, you have multiple horses (Warmbloods?), a small farm, and can go to clinics occasionally. That is more than A LOT of people have. I guess people could complain about you too.

People can choose whether or not they want to sell their horse to someone. It’s not a crime. My horse could be nicer than yours or not. I could sell my horse to you (general you), or not.

You’re entitled to your opinion, and I can understand where you are coming from. I just see it a little different. I missed ouy on many opportunites when I was younger. So I worked to make sure that my adult life was an improvement from that. If I don’t have something, I’m not going to stand around and moan about it. I am going to go without, or try my hardest to get or achieve whatever that something is. Maybe it’s working harder to earn more money, maybe it’s dedicating more time to something.

We have two different perspectives. That’s fine.

[Manni01]

@CanteringCarrot

Goodness. I am not looking to find a way to “do a hit at you” but I really should know better at this point to be lured into these conversations. How do you know how much a pay for a show?

Why are you taking hits at me as if I know nothing? I lived in the US for quite some time. I competed in the US. I took regular clinics in the US. I do know what I am talking about, but thank you for automatically assuming that I don’t. You don’t get to play the “insulted victim” while also taking hits at me. Sorry.

There is always someone that has more than you, yeah, it sucks. For example, you have multiple horses (Warmbloods?), a small farm, and can go to clinics occasionally. That is more than A LOT of people have. I guess people could complain about you too.

People can choose whether or not they want to sell their horse to someone. It’s not a crime. My horse could be nicer than yours or not. I could sell my horse to you (general you), or not.

You’re entitled to your opinion, and I can understand where you are coming from. I just see it a little different. I missed ouy on many opportunites when I was younger. So I worked to make sure that my adult life was an improvement from that. If I don’t have something, I’m not going to stand around and moan about it. I am going to go without, or try my hardest to get or achieve whatever that something is. Maybe it’s working harder to earn more money, maybe it’s dedicating more time to something.

We have two different perspectives. That’s fine.

Remember, you started it, You started to make it personal, I posted based solely on my observations in this thread and you assumed personal things which are even wrong… You know nothing about me and my plans for my riding. I have no personal problems with the US system at all. What is your assumption based on?

I got my Bronze medal as well as half of my silver which is pretty ok, I guess… yes I do think the money I spent for this was outrageous. I dont believe something is right just because I can afford it .

and now I am curious 😊. How much is your annual license to show fee and your class fees?

[Jenerationx]

@CanteringCarrot

If I planted recording devices for sound and video in someone’s stable here, I’d get the boot and probably a lawsuit. And labeled crazy.

You cannot just do that. If the owner does have surveillance they most post notice about it. For example, at the entrances of the property and around the stable where it is easily visible. Otherwise it is illegal.

It is a “private property” not the public sphere.
”‹”‹”‹”‹
But I don’t know how that all goes on the US and how it varies by state.

Yes, it varies by state. In some cases it’s ok to record in an area where people would not have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” so a business in areas that are open might be ok. (Usually with the owner’s permission) I’ll give an example of a workplace here in NY. There are no notices we are being recorded, but we can see the cameras, so we know it’s happening and that’s fine, but if they bugged the bathrooms, that would not be legal because I should be able to expect privacy in the restroom.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

Remember, you started it, You started to make it personal, I posted based solely on my observations in this thread and you assumed personal things which are even wrong… You know nothing about me and my plans for my riding. I have no personal problems with the US system at all. What is your assumption based on?

I got my Bronze medal as well as half of my silver which is pretty ok, I guess… yes I do think the money I spent for this was outrageous. I dont believe something is right just because I can afford it .

and now I am curious 😊. How much is your annual license to show fee and your class fees?

Lol I didn’t make it personal. You put your feelings on dressage in the US in respect to USDF/USEF and money out there. I commented on it. This is a discussion forum. Therefore, discussion occurred. I just recall that this is a frequent gripe of yours, and that’s fine. You’re entitled to that.

Which personal things did I assume that are wrong? Please correct me as I don’t want to carry on with incorrect assumptions. I thought I recalled that you have horses and go to clinics? That is not wrong? It is info you’ve shared publicly on here, no? I didn’t say anything about your plans because quite frankly I don’t care what your plans are. I just said what you have, could be a lot more than what others have in reference to there will always be someone out there that has more. More opportunity, more money, more horses. You (general you) work with what you have. Not satisfied? work harder. Whether that is improving your personal situation or changing the dynamic of a sport.

That’s great that you have your Bronze and are on your way to your silver. Maybe you think that came at a high cost. That’s fine.

It’s just that there is no regulation (correct me if I am wrong) on how much the USDF/USEF can charge. It is a sport. It is a luxury. Nothing says it has to be affordable is my point. It’d be nice if it were more affordable, I agree.

Clearly since you know me so well, where I’ve ridden, and how much I pay, why are you asking me a question you know the answer to? I’m confused.

But then again, what I pay is somewhat irrelevant. Different culture here toward riding. Different structure. Should the US mimic it? Maybe so. I don’t know. What is the ideal system to you?

I’ve paid to compete in the US. I’ve paid to compete in abroad. Does this some how give me better credentials or something? Or am I less qualified to comment? Again. I am confused.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Jenerationx

Yes, it varies by state. In some cases it’s ok to record in an area where people would not have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” so a business in areas that are open might be ok. (Usually with the owner’s permission) I’ll give an example of a workplace here in NY. There are no notices we are being recorded, but we can see the cameras, so we know it’s happening and that’s fine, but if they bugged the bathrooms, that would not be legal because I should be able to expect privacy in the restroom.

Interesting. Just seeing cameras doesn’t work so much. Here there has to be signage. However, I could see certain spaces in a business being recorded. That could be reasonable. Especially entrances, exits, the lobby, etc.

Although, somewhat of a side note, I will say, “reasonable” is one of my favorite words because what is reasonable? This can vary from individual to individual.

I can see a stable with cameras as reasonable. If installed by the property owner in an effort to guard ones property/record potential criminal activity such as a break in. Not necessarily for the purposes of monitoring every individuals moves or recording casual conversations.

ETA: I don’t know how it goes when someone else installs recording devices on your property without your knowledge. Does that interefere with your right to privacy as a property owner? Or is that void since you’ve opened your property to (select) members of the public by boarding horses? I don’t know, just seems weird that it’d be ok if someone installed recording devices in my stable without my knowledge.

[Mersidoats]

@La-LaPopRider

Incorrect. Police, judges & DA’s can easily retrieve this information. Especially, in a court order which involves or pertains to circumstances in an attempted murder trial. But nice try on attempting to mislead.

Read again for reading comprehension. Did I say anything about legal requests, subpoenas, or law enforcement? No. I was referring to the general public. And fix your attitude - it’s incredibly condescending and petulant. I never attempt to mislead anyone here.

This is the third time you’ve come back at me with a smart-a** clap back. It’s becoming a pattern. i understand you’re trying to defend yourself in the court of public opinion, but a little grace goes a long way.

[BigMama1]

@Manni01

Yes yes yes!! And I will go even further and will become probably really getting teared and feathered… I think its not only both parties which are partly at fault, but it is also USDF and probably also USEF which are partly responsible for this tragic incident…
.
Why did LK choose Dressage as the Sport she wants to do… Why did she not decide to play tennis…
I supect I know why… In tennis, you have to work and to work even harder and then you have to work more to win any match…

In Dressage you buy some expensive horses, you choose an accomplished trainer, you pay expensive show fees which are a barrier for many potential competitors already and then you are good to go… You see all these beautiful horses and the beautiful fashion which goes with it… And you know that its so expensive that 90 of the people can not afford it… Somehow the hard work and dedication which still goes into it if you want to make it to the top got lost in the US… LK posted a picture of herself and IW… She probably did not even think how IW made her way up… She did not buy expensive horses, she worked her butt up in a barn with a trainer who had a reputation for not being easy… She made it because she worked hard and then she worked harder… And other then that you hardly heard anything about things which went wrong…

In the US showing Dressage is about money… the more money you invest, the more expectations you have that you will be successful…

LK is probably a victim of this system because she has not enough knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes and believed if she just paid enough money she would make it… The trainer was a victim because he did not fully understand how naive this client was (together with a little tricky personality…). He just thought take the money of this client, which is pretty normal, he had no idea about the missing knowledge and expectations of this specific client… And USDF is partly responsible because they formed the system to the current Status… You pay and pay and pay and the sportsmanship is not really that important anymore…

So USEF and USDF are partly responsible for Michael Barisone picking up a gun and shooting two people, because the associations don’t stop rich Americans from buying and showing nice horses? Interesting theory! :lol:

[BigMama1]

@Manni01

Hope you are happy that you found a way to do a hit at me… And this from the perspective of somebody who pays 50 bucks per year for a show license and 11 bucks per class… Don’t you think you don’t even know what you are talking about?? How many years have you shown in the US?? how many clinics have you ridden in in the US???

And BTW you asked about the foundation of my post… Its based on what LK said in several threads in this board… She did explicitly say that she did not know about the requirements for the Bronze medal because she thought she had 3 horses and just wanted to ride and not focus on anything else…

If she just did 3rd level last year with bought horses not knowing much about rules, she has probably not lifelong experience as a dressage rider who worked her way up…

And her statement that MB girl friend wanted to buy her horses ist another proof for my assumption… She bought horses and obviously they are nice horses and obviously MB´s girl friend did not have the same money to buy the same quality of horses at this point… LK did not make the horse if anybody put work into it it was the trainer… So… Its all about money… My horse is nicer then your horse and I don’t want to sell it to you…
Be honest, have you ever thought like this??? I think this way of thinking is special. (BTW on both sides…). And that’s exactly what is killing the sport…

Where is this mythical land where you pay $50 for a “show licence” and entry fees are $11/class? I bet a bunch of us would like to move there.

[CanteringCarrot]

@BigMama1

Where is this mythical land where you pay $50 for a “show licence” and entry fees are $11/class? I bet a bunch of us would like to move there.

To be fair, it does cost less to keep, develop, and compete a horse in Europe. Which is why prices are more “friendly” to American buyers and why they often import from Europe.

It is a different system. A different culture and different view toward riding and breeding in general. In America it is different. Not necessarily wrong, but different.

Apparently the fact that I currently do not compete in America disqualifies me from saying anything though :lol:

[Manni01]

@CanteringCarrot

To be fair, it does cost less to keep, develop, and compete a horse in Europe. Which is why prices are more “friendly” to American buyers and why they often import from Europe.

It is a different system. A different culture and different view toward riding and breeding in general. In America it is different. Not necessarily wrong, but different.

Apparently the fact that I currently do not compete in America disqualifies me from saying anything though :lol:

Thanks for confirming this „mythical“ country exists…

[Manni01]

@BigMama1

So USEF and USDF are partly responsible for Michael Barisone picking up a gun and shooting two people, because the associations don’t stop rich Americans from buying and showing nice horses? Interesting theory! :lol:

😊 Sorry that you obviously have no idea what I wrote. Maybe read it again…

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

Thanks for confirming this „mythical“ country exists…

You’re welcome.