Barisone Pleads Not Guilty

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

Well, there are a lot of rules, and I lot of people don’t fully understand them until the rule “bites them”. Then they pay attention.

I though she was saying that USEF had deliberately made the sport more expensive in order to shield rich competitors from better but poorer competitors, which I think is absurd.

Some misguided policies which make things more expensive but were not intended as such? Maybe.

That’s not what she was saying at all. I highly doubt policies that result in more money to be made is an unintended consequence. Regardless that’s not the point of this thread, Manni was just pointing out it that sometimes it allows people with enough money to show not knowing more than their test. It’s related because LK is clearly one of those people.

I personally didn’t know to get your medals, the scores had to be by three different judges. I didn’t know that because dressage isn’t my thing. You better believe I would know and understand all the rules IF I was trying to get them.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

great!! So looking forward to a discussion with real arguments with you… You should really be able to do better… BTW, as you are an expert for the German System, how do you like the possibility to win your entry back in your class if you get a ribbon?? Isn’t that extraordinary nice???

Where did I say that I am an expert on the German system? Can you quote me? I do not think I ever said that. You should really be able to do better.

[La-LaPopRider]

@Manni01

Yes yes yes!! And I will go even further and will become probably really getting teared and feathered… I think its not only both parties which are partly at fault, but it is also USDF and probably also USEF which are partly responsible for this tragic incident…
.
Why did LK choose Dressage as the Sport she wants to do… Why did she not decide to play tennis…
I supect I know why… In tennis, you have to work and to work even harder and then you have to work more to win any match…

In Dressage you buy some expensive horses, you choose an accomplished trainer, you pay expensive show fees which are a barrier for many potential competitors already and then you are good to go… You see all these beautiful horses and the beautiful fashion which goes with it… And you know that its so expensive that 90 of the people can not afford it… Somehow the hard work and dedication which still goes into it if you want to make it to the top got lost in the US… LK posted a picture of herself and IW… She probably did not even think how IW made her way up… She did not buy expensive horses, she worked her butt up in a barn with a trainer who had a reputation for not being easy… She made it because she worked hard and then she worked harder… And other then that you hardly heard anything about things which went wrong…

In the US showing Dressage is about money… the more money you invest, the more expectations you have that you will be successful…

LK is probably a victim of this system because she has not enough knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes and believed if she just paid enough money she would make it… The trainer was a victim because he did not fully understand how naive this client was (together with a little tricky personality…). He just thought take the money of this client, which is pretty normal, he had no idea about the missing knowledge and expectations of this specific client… And USDF is partly responsible because they formed the system to the current Status… You pay and pay and pay and the sportsmanship is not really that important anymore…

Cute backstory! Maybe the National Enquirer will buy it! You can make money without having to work for it!

FTR- IW is criticized ALL THE TIME (wrongfully, IMO) for using bad training methods … being “abusive,” to the horses in training- having a foot in the door “unfairly,” for getting to the O games repeatedly… So, there goes your entire theory. She works her ass off. As do I. If you want a quality horse- go buy one! They’re cheaper in Europe & if you spend some time really looking with a few expert set of eyes, you’ll likely end up with a horse who is talented, forward, light in the bridle with excellent self carriage. It’s worked beautifully for me three times now in the past 2 years. They don’t “come,” as “push button,” test takers. No. Sorry. It takes W O R K. Riding & more riding. Get acquainted with that or stop complaining.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Jealoushe

I have heard rumours one of the mods participates in the thread under an alias. Rumour…not confirmed.

Lol wut

[Manni01]

@CanteringCarrot

Where did I say that I am an expert on the German system? Can you quote me? I do not think I ever said that. You should really be able to do better.

I apologize, I thought you showed in Germany… But I guess I am wrong… And I think highly of you because I assume you would not show in a system you do not understand…

[Denali6298]

@La-LaPopRider

Cute backstory! Maybe the National Enquirer will buy it! You can make money without having to work for it!

FTR- IW is criticized ALL THE TIME (wrongfully, IMO) for using bad training methods … being “abusive,” to the horses in training- having a foot in the door “unfairly,” for getting to the O games repeatedly… So, there goes your entire theory. She works her ass off. As do I. If you want a quality horse- go buy one! They’re cheaper in Europe & if you spend some time really looking with a few expert set of eyes, you’ll likely end up with a horse who is talented, forward, light in the bridle with excellent self carriage. It’s worked beautifully for me three times now in the past 2 years. They don’t “come,” as “push button,” test takers. No. Sorry. It takes W O R K. Riding & more riding. Get acquainted with that or stop complaining.

Manni is well aware of the work it takes to ride and she is no slouch. Beautiful horses, lovely rider from what I can tell from pictures. She’s a little disappointed with the way we do things here in the US and she is also well aware that most people can ride a school master to their bronze medal. IMO, the work starts higher. You can buy gaits.

[MHM]

@La-LaPopRider

Cute backstory! Maybe the National Enquirer will buy it! You can make money without having to work for it!

FTR- IW is criticized ALL THE TIME (wrongfully, IMO) for using bad training methods … being “abusive,” to the horses in training- having a foot in the door “unfairly,” for getting to the O games repeatedly… So, there goes your entire theory. She works her ass off. As do I. If you want a quality horse- go buy one! They’re cheaper in Europe & if you spend some time really looking with a few expert set of eyes, you’ll likely end up with a horse who is talented, forward, light in the bridle with excellent self carriage. It’s worked beautifully for me three times now in the past 2 years. They don’t “come,” as “push button,” test takers. No. Sorry. It takes W O R K. Riding & more riding. Get acquainted with that or stop complaining.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

So you don’t keep up with changes the USEF makes? Got it. Hell I haven’t been in a show ring in about 15 years and I still keep abreast of the changes.

@Manni01 this quoted post just demonstrates a barn culture shift for Dressage to mimic that of H/J. I don’t think that can rest on the USEF. It rests on the trainers who allow their people to show with zero knowledge.

   I am aware of the mileage rule.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Manni01

if you ask show management they will tell you they have to do it because of all the money they pay to USEF…

And again my fav argument the AA rule…
In the US your time as an AA is over once you earn any money with riding…
Theoretically there would be the possibility for the show management to find local sponsors to sponsor price money for the classes… That way the riders could at least get some of the money back they spend for the show… But wait… not possible because then they would loose their AA status…

    If show management decides to charge this that and the other fee, and you gripe that the show is expensive, then human nature being what it is, sure, they may try to blame USEF rules. But that is not the same as saying that USEF requires them to charge a high grounds fee, etc.

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

I am aware of the mileage rule.

Now you are. Start a new thread if your actually interested in AAs getting shut out.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Manni01

I apologize, I thought you showed in Germany… But I guess I am wrong… And I think highly of you because I assume you would not show in a system you do not understand…

I really do appreciate your back handed insults. There is a difference between knowing a system well and being an expert. I know and understand the system well enough, but I’m not going to proclaim myself an expert. If I were to make a mistake due to my lack of knowledge in some area, there is no one to blame but myself. Like I said, I know well enough, feel comfortable with my knowledge, but I’m not arrogant enough to declare myself an expert. I cannot site everything word for word.

Are you an expert on all that is USDF? If so, that’s impressive.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

That’s not what she was saying at all. I highly doubt policies that result in more money to be made is an unintended consequence. Regardless that’s not the point of this thread, Manni was just pointing out it that sometimes it allows people with enough money to show not knowing more than their test. It’s related because LK is clearly one of those people.

I personally didn’t know to get your medals, the scores had to be by three different judges. I didn’t know that because dressage isn’t my thing. You better believe I would know and understand all the rules IF I was trying to get them.

OK, then I did misunderstood her post. I also thought that the statement that USEF was partly responsible for the shooting was sarcasm, but she has not clarified one way or the other.

Also, saying USEF changed rules in order to make shows economically viable for show management is not the same as saying USEF changed rules in order to make the sport more expensive. If USEF rules allow the organizers of mega shows to not only put on the show, but rake in huge profits, then you should go into the show management business. In my part of the country, it is risky to put on a show, because you may make a modest profit, break even, or lose money. Especially the attempted mega shows.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Jealoushe

Check this out…a nice reminder for all those bashing a certain someone and making statements that are untrue, unproven, spreading lies and trying to further ruin theit reputation. Better hope what you say is proven to be true…

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/anonymous-internet-posters-successfully-sued-for-defamatory-comments

I saw that. It’s not so cut and dry as, “x said negative thing about so and so, this was unfounded, now so and so can sue and collect.”

We do have some reputation laws here that people take seriously. They also toss them around and use them as threats (I’ll sue you/bring you to the police for saying xyz) when in reality, they have little to no ground to stand on.

Bugs me a bit when laymans have suddenly gone to law school and are an expert on the law, being all sue happy and whatnot.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Anyway, I have an interest in the law, anonymity, and the internet…among other things, so it’s interesting. Also interesting to see how different jurisdictions handle things.

[MorganSercu]

@Jealoushe

what were barn hours? How do you know what the hours are? Didn’t she live on the property?

I recall somewhere in the thread that the barn was closed at 9 pm or so but that was violated frequently enough that the police told LK not to go there after-hours.

[ladyj79]

@BigMama1

Wow. That’s amazing if it is $50/year and $11/class to show in Europe. Even I could afford that.

our classes were 15 dollars for national shows in NL. And there’s prize money.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

Now you are. Start a new thread if your actually interested in AAs getting shut out.

It was not you who made me aware of the mileage rule, Denali6298! I don’t appreciate you opining that I have not showed in years, when I last showed about a year ago. 

I pointed out that the economic constraints of showing, and the economic impact of the mileage rule may well be different in different parts of the country. So what you see in Virginia or Florida may be different from what I experience in my part of the country.

[Denali6298]

@CanteringCarrot Jealoushe has a point. In the past threads on this topic, posters close to the situation (who probably have been interviewed) launched all out verbal assaults on LK. When questioned as to how they would know such a thing or be privy, they claim to just be an outsider looking in. Notice these posters are absent from this thread. People on the previous threads who outright bashed LK, causing others to do the same who have no knowledge of the players, should worry about that court decision. Granted an appellate court or Supreme Court could change it, but somehow I think those posters are absent for a reason. Or they are here under the new comers who only commented on this one thread.

[smoofox]

@Manni01

Oh getting personal again?? Warning one more time and I will report it to the mods…

Manni01 - the post you are so outraged about was not a personal attack. Saying that you have a unique view of amateur dressage riders is not vicious. We all have unique views about things. Saying “adopted country” is not personal. The US is my adopted country as well. I do not see that as an insult - or anything personal - of any kind.

I am not sure that threats and getting in people’s faces is the way to go here.

I am always puzzled by the persistent conspiracy theories that large groups of posters constantly communicate by PM in order to coordinate an attack on some particular poster in a particular thread… that is a lot of paranoia going on there - and paranoia will destroy ya. IF it happens, it is an extremely rare occurrence. IF I get a PM about a thread (very rare), it is just a very short discussion about a particular point… no coordination, no plots, nothing. Sorry to disappoint.

If a moderator is posting on some threads under their own screen name… ummm… who cares?

I wish I could be like Manni - have some nice warmbloods and live where it was warm and go to clinics and show… if wishes were horses…

But no - I just finished digging out of another gawdawful Snowmaggedon mess. I no longer have my own horse - my retired pasture puff was put down last summer. I am the only groom, barn cleaner, midwife, nutritionist, pimp, vet tech etc. for someone else’s 25 horses. I load the youngsters on the trailer to go off to the BNT to start their show careers.

I do get to school some lovely horses at another barn. Most fun: a Fjord who is amazing at lateral work and outshines many of the warmbloods!

I look back fondly on when I was able to go to dressage shows on weekends… and only had one or two horses to tend to… but the current herd here does not allow me to wallow in such thoughts for long.

:lol:

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

If it’s a USEF rule that is a constraint, that is a fair criticism. But mega shows having better economics is not the fault of USEF.

But if USEF is artificially shutting out the competition from smaller shows, that’s a fair criticism.

In this post you weren’t sure of it being a USEF rule. Seriously, quit arguing for arguments sake.

oh and you were responding to my post bringing up the mileage rule.

[ladyj79]

@MorganSercu

I recall somewhere in the thread that the barn was closed at 9 pm or so but that was violated frequently enough that the police told LK not to go there after-hours.

I thought that was the newly posted signs at the barn when shit started to go awry, not any previous rules from the contact, and that whole or you might get shot language :lol: