Barisone Safe Sport Update

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

Eggbutt says there is something else from USEF.

No, let’s be clear. You asked who would have prepared the no contact order I’ve mentioned and I said I assumed USEF since they have the huge complaint.

OK. You haven’t read it, you’re not sure who it applies to, and you don’t know who issued it. Perfectly clear, thanks.

[Knights_Mom]

@Danvers

https://www.facebook.com/100044439489390/posts/pfbid02nfjS9sPwfL7DmVaAhemXF2mSWa8h9osipTeTKFB9Fta4pYrLzx1PyAmwNbVSKiEvl/?d=n
Not sure how to post things from Facebook so not sure if this is coping over and apologies Kights Mom this is not a response to you but you are one of my like minded posters on these threads…. So pasting here…. It’s an experiment. It’s Boyd Martin doing Tough Mudder. Sigh. Just sharing. If it doesn’t work sorry for the interruption…

It says to log onto FB

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@hut-ho78

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

Are you asking the basis for my question as to how would LK and family think the horses would be cared for by the same people who just shot her twice and whom she had been at odds with before? It seems that all parties were concerned with safety and horse care. RC was sleeping in the barn aisle outside of Didi’s stall. LK was worried about barn fires. Her family was worried about horse care after she was shot twice. It was a deteriorating situation. This all came out in court.

Sorry, that argument makes no sense. (Or as we say in the south, that dog won’t hunt.)

People that concerned about the welfare of horses would not have abused horses belonging to someone else, nor would they have neglected to provide critical care for them as needed. Unlike a certain other couple living on the proper, MB/NHG/RC/JH, etc., just don’t sound like they are vindictive enough to willfully harm someone else’s horses.

Oh, and another thing - didn’t LK allege that the reason MB tried to “murder” them was because MHG wanted her horses? Now why in the world would someone allow abuse or neglect to happen to a horse she was wanted for herself?

Sorry you lost me with MB and company not being vindictive enough to not care for the horses when MB shot LK twice. I don’t think anyone was quite rational. Per Eggbutt, LO closed the barn and paid to ship MB’s horses to Florida herself with no help from MHG, JH, or RC. So if what Eggbutt heard and repeated is correct then it’s not that they were vindictive as much as not responsible.

MHG, JH, and RC each just left with their own horses, leaving MBs horses to be cared for by the mother of a working student? Wow.

Did you expect people to stay just for LKs horses?

RG could care for them. Or, once sgain MOVE THE HORSES.

No. I expected the assistant trainers and the fiancée to stay to take care of MBs horses and close up the facility rather than leave it to the mother of a working student. I think LO is a saint for stepping up and taking care of a huge, horribly painful task.

[MHM]

@Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion

Ah, that one. I thought he was referring there to not having inside information from USEF/SS.

Not about the rest of the case.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

My original purpose in that list was trying to understand why a successful trainer/rider/business man could be so bothered by a problematic boarder.

You really are a piece of work. That “problematic boarder” had initiated a relentless campaign of mudslinging against MB in an attempt to force him to ditch MHG and restore Herself (the problematic boarder) as #1 at Hawthorne Hill. And when it became apparent that he wasn’t going to acquiesce, she escalated from insinuations to actual threats and other actions - including inferences to certain governmental agencies that MHG’s minor children were at risk there.

Sheesh. “Problematic boarder - on steroids.” (Or other stronger drugs.)

What evidence or testimony was there that LK was trying to “force” MB to ditch MHG?

Both Seeker and IM posted about it.

Not that I read!

[ekat]

@Knights_Mom

I’m sure someone will chime in with the proof.

In NJ he pled guilty to a couple different drug charges, a DUI, at least one disorderly conduct thing, and a resisting arrest charge (I find this one ironic since we’ve heard MB had a resisting arrest charge, but he doesn’t). And pages of traffic violations.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

@Knights_Mom

@GiveEmEl

What was RG convicted for?

I’m sure someone will chime in with the proof.

Lots of things including but not limited to: criminal trespass, use/possession with intent of drug paraphernalia, reckless driving, all convictions

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@hut-ho78

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

Are you asking the basis for my question as to how would LK and family think the horses would be cared for by the same people who just shot her twice and whom she had been at odds with before? It seems that all parties were concerned with safety and horse care. RC was sleeping in the barn aisle outside of Didi’s stall. LK was worried about barn fires. Her family was worried about horse care after she was shot twice. It was a deteriorating situation. This all came out in court.

Sorry, that argument makes no sense. (Or as we say in the south, that dog won’t hunt.)

People that concerned about the welfare of horses would not have abused horses belonging to someone else, nor would they have neglected to provide critical care for them as needed. Unlike a certain other couple living on the proper, MB/NHG/RC/JH, etc., just don’t sound like they are vindictive enough to willfully harm someone else’s horses.

Oh, and another thing - didn’t LK allege that the reason MB tried to “murder” them was because MHG wanted her horses? Now why in the world would someone allow abuse or neglect to happen to a horse she was wanted for herself?

Sorry you lost me with MB and company not being vindictive enough to not care for the horses when MB shot LK twice. I don’t think anyone was quite rational. Per Eggbutt, LO closed the barn and paid to ship MB’s horses to Florida herself with no help from MHG, JH, or RC. So if what Eggbutt heard and repeated is correct then it’s not that they were vindictive as much as not responsible.

MHG, JH, and RC each just left with their own horses, leaving MBs horses to be cared for by the mother of a working student? Wow.

Did you expect people to stay just for LKs horses?

RG could care for them. Or, once sgain MOVE THE HORSES.

No. I expected the assistant trainers and the fiancé to stay to take care of MBs horses and close up the facility rather than leave it to the mother of a working student. I think LO is a saint for stepping up and taking care of a huge, horribly painful task.

I wouldn’t. I would treat RG and whomever as criminals and I’d get my horses and family away from them ASAP.

RG is a big boy, he could figure it out. I would consider myself as owing them NOTHING.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

My original purpose in that list was trying to understand why a successful trainer/rider/business man could be so bothered by a problematic boarder.

You really are a piece of work. That “problematic boarder” had initiated a relentless campaign of mudslinging against MB in an attempt to force him to ditch MHG and restore Herself (the problematic boarder) as #1 at Hawthorne Hill. And when it became apparent that he wasn’t going to acquiesce, she escalated from insinuations to actual threats and other actions - including inferences to certain governmental agencies that MHG’s minor children were at risk there.

Sheesh. “Problematic boarder - on steroids.” (Or other stronger drugs.)

What evidence or testimony was there that LK was trying to “force” MB to ditch MHG?

Both Seeker and IM posted about it.

Not that I read!

Perhaps you’ve forgotten but they did state it.

You miss a lot. You should maybe try and pay more attention to things.

[eggbutt]

You’re welcome.

[Danvers]

I think most of us have been or know a situation when horses get moved out within a matter of hours. And I am talking about multiple horses. Done it. That is definitely not an excuse and the fact that team KK keeps bringing it up on a horse forum …. Is kinda stupid…. Do you think we don’t know the industry or the business. You Kanareks are small potatoes…. Obviously…. Since you don’t know how to move horses or humans out of a bad situation…. Even after many people offered to help. Sad very very sad. None of this is difficult unless you want to Finish the Bastard.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@hut-ho78

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

Are you asking the basis for my question as to how would LK and family think the horses would be cared for by the same people who just shot her twice and whom she had been at odds with before? It seems that all parties were concerned with safety and horse care. RC was sleeping in the barn aisle outside of Didi’s stall. LK was worried about barn fires. Her family was worried about horse care after she was shot twice. It was a deteriorating situation. This all came out in court.

Sorry, that argument makes no sense. (Or as we say in the south, that dog won’t hunt.)

People that concerned about the welfare of horses would not have abused horses belonging to someone else, nor would they have neglected to provide critical care for them as needed. Unlike a certain other couple living on the proper, MB/NHG/RC/JH, etc., just don’t sound like they are vindictive enough to willfully harm someone else’s horses.

Oh, and another thing - didn’t LK allege that the reason MB tried to “murder” them was because MHG wanted her horses? Now why in the world would someone allow abuse or neglect to happen to a horse she was wanted for herself?

Sorry you lost me with MB and company not being vindictive enough to not care for the horses when MB shot LK twice. I don’t think anyone was quite rational. Per Eggbutt, LO closed the barn and paid to ship MB’s horses to Florida herself with no help from MHG, JH, or RC. So if what Eggbutt heard and repeated is correct then it’s not that they were vindictive as much as not responsible.

MHG, JH, and RC each just left with their own horses, leaving MBs horses to be cared for by the mother of a working student? Wow.

Did you expect people to stay just for LKs horses?

RG could care for them. Or, once sgain MOVE THE HORSES.

No. I expected the assistant trainers and the fiancé to stay to take care of MBs horses and close up the facility rather than leave it to the mother of a working student. I think LO is a saint for stepping up and taking care of a huge, horribly painful task.

I wouldn’t. I would treat RG and whomever as criminals and I’d get my horses and family away from them ASAP.

RG is a big boy, ge could figure it out. I would consider myself as owing them NOTHING.

My question, KM, is whether the assistant trainers and MHG as fiancée owed MB the support of taking care of his horses and closing the facility.

Of course they didn’t owe LK any help with her horses.

[subk]

@BigMama1

The most severe sanction they can impose is a permanent ban. It is reserved for the most serious offences but at the end of the day still amounts to little more than losing a license or being kicked out of a club.

This is not a accurate statement. A permanent ban as I understand it prevents a USEF member from having any contact with a banned former member regardless of whether they are interacting outside the jurisdiction of the USEF. In practical matters it prevents them from earning a living. That goes far beyond “being kicked out of a club.” It’s a legal problem and I suspect it will be the real reason MB is reinstated.

Between constitutional rights of freedom of association and the obvious problem of tortuous interference of a third party coming between the contract or business dealings of two other parties there is very good fodder here for a lawsuit.

I don’t know whether it wins or not, but SS/USEF have been relying on the fact that the vast majority of these cases deal with situations where the object of their policies won’t sue because they are not going to want any additional spotlight. Not so MB–no wonder its a “unique situation” for SS. He would have nothing to lose and likely has enough public support (and/or financial support) to pursue it.

The last the thing USEF or SS wants is any public focus on policies that might be a problem under some serious scrutiny or have to show transparency in their “due process.” I strongly suspect these conversations are all already happening behind the scenes, and he gets reinstated as soon as it’s feasible.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@hut-ho78

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

Are you asking the basis for my question as to how would LK and family think the horses would be cared for by the same people who just shot her twice and whom she had been at odds with before? It seems that all parties were concerned with safety and horse care. RC was sleeping in the barn aisle outside of Didi’s stall. LK was worried about barn fires. Her family was worried about horse care after she was shot twice. It was a deteriorating situation. This all came out in court.

Sorry, that argument makes no sense. (Or as we say in the south, that dog won’t hunt.)

People that concerned about the welfare of horses would not have abused horses belonging to someone else, nor would they have neglected to provide critical care for them as needed. Unlike a certain other couple living on the proper, MB/NHG/RC/JH, etc., just don’t sound like they are vindictive enough to willfully harm someone else’s horses.

Oh, and another thing - didn’t LK allege that the reason MB tried to “murder” them was because MHG wanted her horses? Now why in the world would someone allow abuse or neglect to happen to a horse she was wanted for herself?

Sorry you lost me with MB and company not being vindictive enough to not care for the horses when MB shot LK twice. I don’t think anyone was quite rational. Per Eggbutt, LO closed the barn and paid to ship MB’s horses to Florida herself with no help from MHG, JH, or RC. So if what Eggbutt heard and repeated is correct then it’s not that they were vindictive as much as not responsible.

MHG, JH, and RC each just left with their own horses, leaving MBs horses to be cared for by the mother of a working student? Wow.

Did you expect people to stay just for LKs horses?

RG could care for them. Or, once sgain MOVE THE HORSES.

No. I expected the assistant trainers and the fiancé to stay to take care of MBs horses and close up the facility rather than leave it to the mother of a working student. I think LO is a saint for stepping up and taking care of a huge, horribly painful task.

I wouldn’t. I would treat RG and whomever as criminals and I’d get my horses and family away from them ASAP.

RG is a big boy, ge could figure it out. I would consider myself as owing them NOTHING.

My question, KM, is whether the assistant trainers and MHG as fiancée owed MB the support of taking care of his horses and closing the facility.

Of course they didn’t owe LK any help with her horses.

They did what they had to I’d imagine. Justin seems in good favor as he’s running the Florida place so I imagine all is well.

Must have been scary to abandon your place and leave it in the hands of criminals. Imagine having to flee like that!

[Knights_Mom]

@subk

@BigMama1

The most severe sanction they can impose is a permanent ban. It is reserved for the most serious offences but at the end of the day still amounts to little more than losing a license or being kicked out of a club.

This is not a true statement. A permanent ban as I understand it prevents a USEF member from having any contact with a banned former member regardless of whether they are interacting outside the jurisdiction of the USEF. In practical matters it prevents them from earning a living. That goes far beyond “being kicked out of a club.” It’s a legal problem and I suspect it will be the real reason MB is reinstated.

Between constitutional rights of freedom of association and the obvious problem of tortuous interference of a third party coming between the contract or business dealings of two other parties there is very good fodder here for a lawsuit.

I don’t know whether it wins or not, but SS/USEF have been relying on the fact that the vast majority of these cases deal with situations where the object of their policies won’t sue because they are not going to want any additional spotlight. Not so MB–no wonder its a “unique situation” for SS. He would have nothing to lose and likely has enough public support (and/or financial support) to pursue it.

The last the thing USEF or SS wants is any public focus on policies that might be a problem under some serious scrutiny or have to show transparency in their “due process.” I strongly suspect these conversations are all already happening behind the scenes, and he gets reinstated as soon as it’s feasible.

I totally agree.

[ekat]

JH testified that he’s still working at MB’s farm in FL. So, why aren’t we assuming that he helped with that endeavor? Would MB really still want him around if he just ditched out on everything and moved on down to MB’s FL farm without helping with MB’s horses?

[Danvers]

I tried … thought I did but I am part of the illegal elderly mob… Is that what we are called. . I don’t seem to remember ugly nonsensical things…. But am annoyed I can’t copy and past things from FB. Especially when there is something happy and beautiful to share of course dressage related.

[eggbutt]

LO IS a Saint. LK’s horses left toward the end of August. JH and another stayed until early Sept, packed up lots of stuff and went to the FL facility. When the property went on the market, LO offered to clean it out and have everything shipped south. It wasn’t like everyone disappeared August 8.

And again, LO is the kind of friend everyone should have in their life at least once.

[GiveEmEl]

I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me, but obviously I can Google it.

[GiveEmEl]

I can’t even imagine packing up a facility of that size.