Barisone Trial Starting Monday, 3/28

[hut-ho78]

Soloudinthere and me upthread. Here is this.

NJ v. Michael Barisone Trial Day 4 - Direct Exam (No Cross) of Dr. Mark Widman -...

[soloudinhere]

@Knights_Mom

@soloudinhere can a not guilty defense be altered mid trial if new evidence comes to light? As in just changing the plea to a simple not guilty instead of not guilty/insanity and not guilty/self defense?

So, I am not intimately familiar with NJ law on this, but basically - a not guilty plea is a not guilty plea. The state has leveled charges against you and your response to those charges is ‘not guilty.’ An affirmative defense indicates that the respondent believes they have evidence that would limit their criminal culpability even if the plaintiff (here, the state) has proven all the required elements of their case which is why you are required to inform the court up front. Thus, if the state has not proven the required elements of their case, it doesn’t rise to the level of self defense or not, because the defendant’s criminal culpability was not proven in the first place.

So my understanding would be that yes, an outcome of just “not guilty” is possible.

[hut-ho78]

I don’t think so. I think the other weapons found were all in the gun safe but that is not clear.

[BrendaJane]

assuming he had the gun.
that is the big iff in the scenario.

[Sdel]

@DownYonder

@hut-ho78

LK testified they were not supposed to be in the barn then and no one would respond to her texts and that she asked if someone would unplug the dryer. Then, no one responded they went to the FM and BI.

But they didn’t go to FM & BI until the next day, when they would have been allowed in the barn “to change Symphony’s wraps” (if nothing else).

A reasonable person would have maybe unplugged the dryer then. A reasonable person would have made more attempts to contact MB, or JH, or another of the “management staff” to express concern about the dryer not turning off. A reasonable person would probably have even expected that mgmt was getting the problem fixed - and perhaps the very day unreasonable person(s) elected to escalate things to the fire marshall.

Either that whole “dryer not turning off” thing is a LIE, or certain persons involved in the episode are unreasonable. And those two statements are not mutually exclusive.

She testified to RC being asleep. Maybe it was late enough for EVERYONE to be asleep and the texting was designed to check to see if anyone was awake before she went to access the office/safe?

[Sdel]

@Akogler

It totally sounded like and echoed our Popgirl. I have to say I never considered IM credible and was surprised at posters who did… always so mysterious, repeating Popgirls accusations, acting like Joe Insider… wanting to be considered an Important Source of Insight… where is he/she now that we have seen the truth if what so many of us suspected, that our Popgirl is a lying troublemaking delusional craycray?

He’s testifying remember. Isn’t allowed to be interacting or looking at the trial.

[Sticky_Situation]

Re: your second point #2 …

You’re describing people with personality disorders. They have a longstanding, fixed pattern of abnormal behaviors, and they respond poorly even if they receive psychiatric treatment because it’s just, as you said, “how they’re wired.” An otherwise normal person who starts behaving aberrantly due to, say, bipolar disorder or an addiction can return to being a normally functioning, responsible person if their mental illness or addiction is controlled. People with personality disorders tend to not believe there is anything wrong with their behavior and therefore usually respond poorly to treatment and counseling.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hut-ho78

I don’t think so. I think the other weapons found were all in the gun safe but that is not clear.

But when were the other weapons all found in the safe? In the aftermath of the shooting, when police were looking at the entire property?

And why what was the bases of the SS complaint, which was immediately turned over to child welfare, and determined urgent enough to send out an investigator within one day? From what I have gathered… the complaint was about “child neglect” of some sort and involved MHGs child. If kids were allegedly being allowed around illegal, improperly secured weapons… that might have gotten that sort of rapid response on the part of local child welfare investigators.

[soloudinhere]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

But when we’re the other weapons all found in the safe? In the aftermath of the shooting, when police were looking at the entire property?

Yes, the detective who testified as to the search of the property and the factual accuracy of the photos of the safe.

Considering that the interview with CPS took place within feet of said safe, I imagine if it was a part of the issue, that would have been a quick one to decide if it was true or not.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Yes indeed. cluster B disorders.

[MHM]

@ToN_Farm

@MHM

A theory that has come up on previous threads, which I find very plausible, is that he wanted to insist that they come back to the barn with him to talk to the representative from child protective services who was there interviewing MHG at the time, probably as a result of the complaint LK/RG filed with Safe Sport.

Obviously in hindsight, it would have been better not to go in person. But he may have figured broad daylight, middle of the day, lots of other people on the farm, etc.

All the same reasons that make it seem ludicrous to think he would have chosen that exact time and setting to attempt to murder them.

Not believable to me. As I said, he wanted in that office such that he asked CP and MGH to leave. Now I think he wanted that gun. Others (you?) have this theory(what I think is real far fetched) that LK took the gun earlier. And thus, it just so happens that she or RG had it handy when MB drove up to the farm. Do you see how unrealistic that theory is?

More unrealistic than MB thinking it was a good time to murder them? In broad daylight? In the middle of the day? With his whole staff on the property? As well as the representative from child protective services??

[hut-ho78]

Insanity Defense in NJ Criminal Cases | The Law Offices of Michele Finizio

[hut-ho78]

Can You Claim Self-Defense in a New Jersey Murder Case?

[Knights_Mom]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@hut-ho78

I don’t think so. I think the other weapons found were all in the gun safe but that is not clear.

But when we’re the other weapons all found in the safe? In the aftermath of the shooting, when police were looking at the entire property?

And why what was the bases of the SS complaint, which was immediately turned over to child welfare, and determined urgent enough to send out an investigator within one day? From what I have gathered… the complaint was about “child neglect” of some sort and involved MHGs child. If kids were allegedly being allowed around illegal, improperly secured weapons… that might have gotten that sort of rapid response on the part of local child welfare investigators.

Oh I know this one!

The child charges in my state compose of two things.

A) Child Abuse: causing protracted injury to a child. Punching, throwing, burning, choking and other physical causes or has created a situation that puts the kid in substantial risk of injury.

When CPS files a complaint there are always a lot of pictures. You guys have NO IDEA. OMG.

B) Child Neglect:
Educational neglect is not getting kid to school. Other neglect is improper care failing to exercise a minimum degree of care, failing to provide enough food, clothing, shelter, education, or medical care, or whose parents have allowed the child to suffer harm by a lack of adequate supervision, excessive corporal punishment, or misusing drugs or alcohol.

[hut-ho78]

Imperfect Self-Defense in New Jersey | John W. Tumelty

[Jillsmith]

To me, the phrase that has stuck with me the most, so far in the trial, is “FINISH THE BASTARD!” I find that both chilling and telling that they had a plan, that they were now going to “finish”.
This was the day of the shooting, remember.

[MHM]

Interesting, thanks.

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

https://www.johntumeltycriminaldefense.com/blog/imperfect-self-defense-new-jersey/

Getting beaten to the point of unconsciousness kinda poopoos this one.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@soloudinhere

Considering that the interview with CPS took place within feet of said safe, I imagine if it was a part of the issue, that would have been a quick one to decide if it was true or not.

So we don’t know if CPS asked MHG to open the safe, and we don’t know if improperly secured weapons kept in the vicinity of a child was part of the complaint that brought CPS out to the farm that day. That’s just a theory right now.

We do know that it was illegal for MB to be in possession of RC’s gun, which was registered in NC. And if it was part of the CPS complaint, and they found it in MB’s safe… that might have been a serious issue for everyone involved…

So perhaps MB grabbed that particular gun and originally planned on hiding it somewhere else on the property that afternoon… but things went sideways with LK first, and instead… he impulsively used the weapon.

[ToN_Farm]

@MHM

More unrealistic than MB thinking it was a good time to murder them? In broad daylight? In the middle of the day? With his whole staff on the property? As well as the representative from child protective services??

Yes.