Barisone Trial Starting Monday, 3/28

[MHM]

@Angela_Freda

I wonder if the trailer was considered one of the two vehicles, or were there two plus the trailer?
It was stated “both vehicles were RGs”

I believe there were two vehicles plus the trailer in the diagrams. The trailer was not attached to either of the two vehicles, so to me, that would make it a third vehicle. Maybe in police terminology, it’s only a vehicle if it has an engine in it, or something.

But it was certainly a place that should have been searched if they were trying to do a thorough job on the crime scene. Particularly since according to the police accounts, RG was free to move about the crime scene for quite some time before they finally decided to handcuff him.

[Libby2563]

Sorry, I’m like 200 posts behind right now again but if I don’t reply to this I’ll never find it again lol, and anyway my post is in response to a common theme here.

@MHM

More unrealistic than MB thinking it was a good time to murder them? In broad daylight? In the middle of the day? With his whole staff on the property? As well as the representative from child protective services??

I agree that if that was his plan, it was terrible. The issue with this superficially reasonable line of argument is that the state doesn’t have to prove he intended to murder them when he left the barn with the gun. Intent in the criminal law sense doesn’t have to involve a plan or plot or conspiracy, and intent can be formulated very very quickly—say, in the time it takes to draw a gun and fire it.

Also, intent can be inferred from actions, like shooting someone in the torso. Here’s an excerpt from the NJ model jury instructions for attempted murder, which says just that: “The use of a deadly weapon such as a (describe the deadly weapon used) in itself may permit you to draw an inference that the defendant’s purpose was to take a life.” (https://www.njcourts.gov/attorneys/assets/criminalcharges/inchoate2.pdf)

[Knights_Mom]

Cops wouldn’t search a cop car. Perfect place.

[Sdel]

@EmilyM

4-8 working students, 3 trainers. At least one client we know. MH father. All living there and working horses all day. I just think it’s unlikely. I don’t have a good feel as to how you can sneak into the office.

On the 6th, everyone who was sleeping in front of the office was evicted from the barn and had to sleep on the porch. There is your access right there.

[MHM]

@Angela_Freda

@MHM

It sounded a little vague to me whether RC handed the gun over to MB late on Friday night or late on Saturday night. I think she said it was around or after midnight when it happened

She testified she got there Thursday or Friday.

Yes, and it sounded like she handed over the gun to MB within a day or so of her arrival.

(To which I still say: Seriously?!?)

[FitzE]

@anon68314200

You can say that the tenants were dirt bags and druggies, but what would MB excuse be?

He was trusting and sadly that trust was misplaced?

One poster loved to bang on about Occam’s Razor. Well, in the experience of your average person, you don’t expect the kind of chaos and red flags that were eventually discovered about these folks. You take what you see on face value and think of the most likely scenario: these people are probably not “dirt bag druggies” and won’t ever plan to “destroy” me and/or others at my facility.

Yes, it should all have been in writing but the fact that it wasn’t (or at least we haven’t seen evidence of it in writing, evidence that could have been taken if, say, someone had full access to the office and could do anything they wanted re: contracts, MB’s signature, etc.) doesn’t indicate anything nefarious. It’s at most an indication that he was lax about written contracts as many, many barn owners/managers are (see, also, half the posts about boarding/leasing situations gone bad on this BB).

[EmilyM]

I agree but I feel as though nothing was normal at this point and the level of vigilance was heightened. (By the time Cox arrives in the farm)

I’m just trying to think very critically about all these theories to see what makes sense and what a jury might reasonably conclude.

I can pontificate all I want but the defense presentation hopefully makes more of the circumstances clear.

I don’t envy the jury. This is a difficult situation to follow.

[MHM]

@FitzE

Remember, the jury is supposed to put someone away for decades. Is it reasonable to do so in reliance on “I don’t recall even when my memory is refreshed” guy?

And even when the texts are right there in front of him in black and white?

[Danvers]

yup. its hard to keep a lie straight… especially when it contradicts what really happened when recounting details…

[MHM]

Coincidentally, I have a Seinfeld rerun on the TV right now, and it’s the one where George is angling to meet Marisa Tomei in person, and he is watching My Cousin Vinny in preparation for it.

[Angela_Freda]

In every barn I worked in, yes of this calibre, we weren’t in the club room. We were working. In the barn.

[eggbutt]

@Knights_Mom

@Knights_Mom

DOES ANYONE KNOW:

If RG was in the police car was that the same police car in which the mystery clip magically appeared in the back seat?

Nobody knows if RG was put into the same cop car that the mystery clip appeared in the back seat?

Remember in one of the hearings Heymer said he searched MB and found nothing. The 2nd cop on the scene (I don’t recall his name) said he search MB and found a full clip in his pocket. During the trial nothing has been said, to my recollection, about the cop finding the clip on Barisone and now we’re told a clip was found in the back seat in an empty patrol car. And we were told RG was running all around the crime scene, around all the vehicles, the pond, the patio, etc trying to catch his malicious dog. FRIGGING AMAZING INCOMPETENCE.

Can this police department find their nose on their face? IMO this case should never have been taken to a Grand Jury with this absolutely inept law enforcement department…forget the fact MB went to speak to a higher ranking officer and was turned away!!

[anon68314200]

Not exactly. MB had two facilities to support and the black hole of expenses to support those facilities is hard to describe. Not to mention his own substantial collection of horses.

People may recall an incident with a another Dressage rider in the area where he was lunging, horse flipped over and I think broke (or seriously damaged) its neck. A significant part of why that thing occurred is he had some lady who was a ship in client who hadn’t done much work with her horse. Granted the trainer wasn’t the biggest genius and he slapped side reins on the damn horse and it flipped over. But many of the high ups in the area fancy themselves quite the generous lot and if you have a nice bred horse and/or nice $ and or you are just willing to talk to them, they will be more than willing to take a moment to feel out the situation for potential.

And hell yes, they will chuck a rope over anyone who looks like they can pay the bills. Clients are fairly notorious for coming and going, and even the big names have big check books, with multiple equine, saunter out the door with little warning. So if they are smart, they will always be aiming to get a new potential client on board. And hell yes, the love bombing is thickly deployed, initially at least.

[Jillsmith]

I agree. It doesn’t make any sense at all, then add to it, why oh why did he ever agree to their living with everyone in the house. And then, after the flood, kicking out his assistant trainer, so they could have his apartment. I

[hut-ho78]

@FitzE

@FitzE

@hut-ho78

I think RG has a better memory of the event.

What? This man claims he cannot remember most of his texts/SM posts, cannot remember conversations he had that were recorded, cannot even remember having words with the farrier a few hours before the shooting. Did you hear how many times he said he “couldn’t recall” on the stand? And did you see how, even when he was able to literally read what he wrote or told the police he would answer that he STILL didn’t recall his own statements?

I mean, it was shocking how little he claimed he could remember or recall and even having his memory refreshed for almost every single question, he maintained he still lacked recall. I don’t even know what to say about that, it’s so bizarre. But, one thing that could be said: this man’s recall of events is not his strong point, to put it mildly. He cannot claim to not be able to recall most of his own actions and simultaneously ask the jury to believe his recall of the shooting is 100% accurate. It just doesn’t work both ways like that.

I asked this question 11 hours ago. I’m hoping @hut-ho78 can give their insight since they quoted this at least once and are making a case that RG has a “better memory of the event”.

How can we rely on the memory of the event given by someone who said “I don’t recall” as many times as he said that in his testimony. He claims no recall of his own actions, texts, postings, guns, even who was at the barn that morning EVEN with the added info that he and farrier had an altercation which would make it more memorable, not less.

If he has this little recall of his own actions and even who was around the barn that day, how are we meant to take his word on the recall of the traumatic event given that, as @hut-ho78 rightfully notes, the trauma of the event makes it harder, not easier, to recall details?

Remember, the jury is supposed to put someone away for decades. Is it reasonable to do so in reliance on “I don’t recall even when my memory is refreshed” guy?

That’s a huge issue I currently see with the prosecution case.

I can’t find a question in this, just complaining about my comment. Please clarify your question. LOL!

[FitzE]

100% agree. That’s my entire point.

So, he either has to admit he does remember all the bad stuff he posted, texted, said, swore to, and recorded, and who was there that day (farrier) OR he has to understand that his lack of recall (or “lack of recall”) must be applied consistently (i.e., his recall of the shooting can be judged to be no better than his recall of literally everything else.

Cannot have it both ways. How reasonable is this statement: I recall almost nothing I wrote, texted, said, or did; I do not even remember if the farrier was there that morning and we had an altercation, and I do not even remember once my memory has been refreshed; BUT you must believe my recall of the event is somehow miraculously 100% accurate in all details.

Not reasonable at all.

[MHM]

@3PonyFarm

How do they prove it was even from that crime scene?

Fingerprints? If they had bothered to fingerprint everybody?

Maybe it was left over from the previous crime scene they “processed.”

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@rothmpp

@hut-ho78

It isn’t self defense because MB needed to prove he was backing up and trying to leave and he can’t do that because no evidence exists he did.

I’m not versed on the actual definition of self-defense in NJ, but you seem to be combining duty to retreat with self defense. For example, you can’t retreat if two people are holding you down and beating you senseless, but I’d bet under NJ law you can defend yourself.

New Jersey has a requirement to retreat with self defense as compared to a stand your ground. That would be before MB shot LK twice and shot at RG once.

How would he retreat if say he was on the ground being pummeled?

He is supposed to retreat before he shot Lak twice and at RG once. It’s not shoot and run away, it’s run away and DON’T SHOOT.

[MHM]

@Sticky_Situation

Edit - at least all the instances I watched. Admitted I have only seen parts of his testimony.

I think it pretty much looked like that the whole time once he started to answer questions.

[anon68314200]

If MB is running a legitimate business, he should have records. Trusting has nothing to do with it. There’s no reasonable excuse for him not to have an accounting. The only reasonable excuse is that he was doing something he know he shouldn’t have done.