Barisone Trial Starting Monday, 3/28

[paw]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I just have a challenge feeling like the prosecution has definitely proven attempted murder, what with some of these gaps when it comes to coherently and credibly explaining what lead up to this shooting.

In case this hasn’t been said by now:
The defense is pleading “not guilty by reason of insanity” and “self defense”; they did not plead “not guilty”. The fact the the defendant shot the victim is not up for debate in this trial.

If the defense thought that there was any question of whether the defendant had fired the weapon, they would have entered a not guilty plea. The fact that they didn’t indicates that the prosecution has solid evidence that the defendant shot the victim in a way that was not accidental. Either that, or the defense attorney is an idiot.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@paw

In case this hasn’t been said by now:
The defense is pleading “not guilty by reason of insanity” and “self defense”; they did not plead “not guilty”. The fact the the defendant shot the victim is not up for debate in this trial.

If the defense thought that there was any question of whether the defendant had fired the weapon, they would have entered a not guilty plea. The fact that they didn’t indicates that the prosecution has solid evidence that the defendant shot the victim in a way that was not accidental. Either that, or the defense attorney is an idiot.

Got it. I might not have worded the comment well.

Right now… I’m wondering if the defense attorney is an idiot.

[Knights_Mom]

@3PonyFarm

@Knights_Mom, when a house or apartment is on a large property like MB farm and no lease agreement exists, if a landlord is waiting for an eviction to happen, how much of the property does the tenant have a legal right to occupy especially if there is a business or another residence on the property?

I can see the house or apartment and maybe an outside area connected to the residence, but I wondered how much on a large property do they have a right to be on before it would be considered trespassing?

Thanks!

If there is no eviction warrant nothing happens. Everything stays the same.

In a residential case they occupy their area. In a situation where there are rooms and a common area they inhabit just like normal. Eviction warrants name room by room.

Example: 5 room apartment on the 2nd floor. From front of house take the right green door up a flight of steps to living room, kitchen, 2 bedrooms and bathroom.

Commercial properties describe building or possibly lot number, store number and describes room number, floor and if outside area is part of the rental then that description as well.

Parking spaces can also get eviction warrants and are described with space number etc.

If a tenant is present at time of eviction the Marshal takes them out and padlocks property. If they give him grief police are called. If there is a pet animal services may be called but marshals are normally sympathetic and try and not put them in the pound.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hut-ho78

Sorry yes. Attempted manslaughter. It’s not a statute in New Jersey, it’s established by case law.

Andrew Branca explains it on his podcast and YouTube The Law of Self Defense. He started commenting on this one when LK started testifying.

So I checked out his YouTube channel and listened to some of his commentary, and it was interesting. But when I go to look up “attempted manslaughter” in New Jersey… I can’t find anything

Currently, Michael Barisone is charged with two counts of first degree attempted murder. Is it possible that they will be downgraded to second degree attempted murder? There is readily available information on second degree attempted murder in New Jersey.

I do wonder about the general competence of defense council… he’s not coming across well to me.

[3PonyFarm]

Thank you!

[Knights_Mom]

I’ve given up trying to explain charges, defense competency, lesser included offenses and the pleading.

[agequodagis]

They did talk early on in the trial about how much MB’s expenses were. It was 10’s of thousands per month to run the stable if I remember correctly. I may have been during MGH’s testimony. 40-50K maybe? Huge. I don’t know where that would all go? Maybe competitions? So if they were paying attention they should have heard that.

[BrendaJane]

all sorts of things: bedding, feed, grooms, maintenance, rent/mortgage…of course show expenses. that is only about 1k per horse, not hard to get there.

[agequodagis]

Right. I would hope there would be some economies of scale for feed, bedding, grooms. I think big ones would be rent/mortgage, showing can be huge. All those renovations. Not all horses would probably be going to shows at his expense.

[BrendaJane]

but alone the bedding and hay can get expensive when you have to buy everything and you know the customers want their steeds knee deep in the good stuff!

add utilities,etc…I can see things going on up in a hurry.

[agequodagis]

Think about all the jobs he’s created, and the taxes he’s paid, the money he’s spent in the local economy, and just what a crappy job the police did.

[Ambitious_Kate]

How do you know whether he’s competent or not? He hasn’t presented his case yet.

[CanteringCarrot]

I don’t know why people cannot get it through their thick heads the defense has not presented their case yet. There has been cross examination and this can often go different from when the defense actually presents their case. I don’t think Bilinkas came off so strongly during the cross exam, but I have to reserve my judgment until he presents his full defense this week.

During cross examination there are also limits. So there are things that Bilinkas couldn’t bring forth or speak about…even though he tried at times, hence the sidebars and whatnot. Bilinkas “style” is a bit irritating to me, but I can’t say for certain that he’s bad at his job. I’m not so impressed thus far, but there’s aways to go, so I’m still open.

This thread also reminds me how frustrating it can be at times to explain legal methods and procedures. It always fascinates me that laymen know so much when they’ve never been to law school or had any formal education on legal matters. I mean, heck, why do we even need lawyers nowadays when everyone else is so smart and clearly knows better. All of that money and time spent on their education and they’re still idiots! Pfft, lawyers! No, they’re not all on the same level, but it always fascinates me, all of these other experts in the peanut gallery.

It’s also interesting that we’re all watching the same trial, but some peoples interpretations or understanding of what is going on differ so much from what is actually going on

I think people are way too stuck on what is being said vs actual evidence or lack thereof.

[FitzE]

Yes, I’m still waiting as we were all to be schooled on the finer points of privilege - from a top 5 global ‘blue chip’ law firm partner, no less! Even though we’d already graciously been given a concise and correct explanation by an actual trial attorney on here. Funny how that just…petered out.

I also reserve judgement on Bilinkas. He hasn’t had his go yet. I thought he was absolutely remarkable in the face of, what did someone up thread call it - RG’s tamtrumming toddler routine. I’ll never forget him so kindly and graciously giving his glasses to that slouching, scowling, unable to recall anything mess of a witness. Such a bad call to act that big a jerk on the stand. All other witnesses were able to be equally polite and respectful to both sides and the contrast was huge.

@CanteringCarrot

vs actual evidence or lack thereof.

This!! They still have not gotten that gun into MB’s hand on the day. Give me some evidence I can convict on, prosecution!

[Joanne]

@FitzE

I’ll never forget him so kindly and graciously giving his glasses to that . . .

If Bilinkas plans on calling RG to the stand again, maybe he can have a pair of Dollar Tree reading glasses to RG can keep it. Maybe have a few pair in case RG has to testify for more than one session in case he trashes them when he leaves the courtroom.

[CanteringCarrot]

I think the behavior of LK and RG was very unflattering. I understand that they are allegedly victims, and that one can feel a bit defensive when the defense is trying to deconstruct your side of things, but that’s their job and we’re all entitled to a defense. It’s best to be matter of fact, but respectful and courteous. Copping an attitude isn’t a good look, at all.

I can only imagine what it’s like being on that stand, but you’ve got to rise above any petty behavior(s). Since these parties have access to “top 5 global” law firm partners, and a legal professional right in their immediate family, I can’t believe that they didn’t receive any guidance on this matter? Or perhaps they did and ignored it or were misguided? I don’t know. It’s possible that ones emotions can override any rational behavior, so I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but sitting up straight and brining your glasses shouldn’t be so difficult? I don’t want to pick apart alleged victims here, but they didn’t do themselves any favors. As a witness it’s important to tell your story, and that should be important to you, as a witness. Therefore, you want to present it in the best way possible. To take it lightly would be a mistake, IMO.

If your testimony can’t be backed up with evidence, then I can understand why one would feel insecure, but you still don’t want to show that by being defensive.

Again, just my opinions, and I don’t want to discount the difficultly of being a witness.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Joanne

@FitzE

I’ll never forget him so kindly and graciously giving his glasses to that . . .

If Bilinkas plans on calling RG to the stand again, maybe he can have a pair of Dollar Tree reading glasses to RG can keep it. Maybe have a few pair in case RG has to testify for more than one session in case he trashes them when he leaves the courtroom.

The Courtroom/Judge decides to keep a selection of reading glasses on the stand after this trial

[FitzE]

Agreed. It must, indeed, be challenging to be a witness. But I contrast with the poise and respect shown on the stand by RC, MHG, and JH. They have all been raked over the coals lo these past 2+ years by that crew, mocked for their looks, called ‘the barn drunk’, incompetent, jealous, the cause of all the tension, they’ll never ride for the US, and on and on and on. And look how MHG, especially, held up, never once stooping to anything petty regarding LK, saying she could even be a great rider, refusing to admit that she, MHG, was a better rider. Just constantly going high, never low.

All of their lives were ruined by this, too. But they kept their wits about them and behaved with complete civility and respect for everyone, regardless of which side they were from. A master class in class, all three of them. I was dead impressed. I guess you just cannot fake good character.

When you show up unprepared, not even arsed to wear a tie the day you’ll be dealing with the other side, sneering, slouching, ‘unable’ to recall a single moment of your life, all the games: it’s not just ‘owning’ the defence, it’s dragging the whole proceeding down, disrespecting the process and, most importantly, disrespecting the jurors’ time and attention. It’s coming up Easter break and if I was a juror and I had to watch that ‘dude’ play games and fake not remember a dang thing even after he read it and take 5 mins to read 5 lines, yeah, no, you aren’t showing me any respect and I’ve got way better things to do than watch your tough guy act. By the end of that schtick I would have the same attitude towards RG that he was giving Mr. Bilinkas. Cop onto yourself, man!

[Ambitious_Kate]

@FitzE

Agreed. It must, indeed, be challenging to be a witness. But I contrast with the poise and respect shown on the stand by RC, MHG, and JH. They have all been raked over the coals lo these past 2+ years by that crew, mocked for their looks, called ‘the barn drunk’, incompetent, jealous, the cause of all the tension, they’ll never ride for the US, and on and on and on. And look how MHG, especially, held up, never once stooping to anything petty regarding LK, saying she could even be a great rider, refusing to admit that she, MHG, was a better rider. Just constantly going high, never low.

Really a quality person responding with class. Well said.

[Ambitious_Kate]

@FitzE

When you show up unprepared, not even arsed to wear a tie the day you’ll be dealing with the other side, sneering, slouching, ‘unable’ to recall a single moment of your life, all the games: it’s not just ‘owning’ the defence, it’s dragging the whole proceeding down, disrespecting the process and, most importantly, disrespecting the jurors’ time and attention. It’s coming up Easter break and if I was a juror and I had to watch that ‘dude’ play games and fake not remember a dang thing even after he read it and take 5 mins to read 5 lines, yeah, no, you aren’t showing me any respect and I’ve got way better things to do than watch your tough guy act. By the end of that schtick I would have the same attitude towards RG that he was giving Mr. Bilinkas. Cop onto yourself, man!

This really drives it home how little their respect for other people is. This is how they handle themselves with everyone, without care of any kind for anyone.

I can’t help but sniff that her father JK is coaching them outside the prosecutor’s office. I would bet that the prosecutor is as frustrated with these two as anyone else is. I wouldn’t be surprised if at night and on the weekend they are meeting with JK/dad and maybe even another attorney to “strategize”, review testimony, laught at and deride people and the defense. That’s they way they come accross on the stand. As though they had already decided to pretend complete ignorance.

It will be interesting when JK is called, if he uses the same tactic of disrespect and obfuscation; purposefully obtuse, gaslighting on the stand like his daughter and her mess of a boyfriend, RG.