Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Knights_Mom

Seems to me to be poor planning on the part of the court given this was one of only a few possibilities.

I hear you. I just know if the court had any other options…

[trubandloki]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@Knights_Mom

Seems to me to be poor planning on the part of the court given this was one of only a few possibilities.

I hear you. I just know if the court had any other options…

I am sure they have other options, they just do not like the other options.
I am sure there are beds at private facilities available.

[ekat]

Interestingly the initial 30-placement and evaluation is at the request of the prosecutor by NJ statute. The law goes on to dictate what happens if the defendant is uncooperative but I’m not finding anything in statute about what happens if the prosecutor’s choice is unavailable, which means that I’m going to go looking into caselaw starting with that Krol case after I do a few real-life things.

I imagine MB’s attorneys have already done the same.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ekat

In theory, yes. In practice, it’s not that simple. Usually there’s one contracted mental health provider. You put in your request to the CO to see them. CO forwards it up the chain of command, where it crosses desks until it gets to the medical staff and placed on a list. Meanwhile, anyone in active, visible crises bumps everyone down the list. Then, say something happens that the facility goes on lockdown. Requests are put on hold until lockdown is resolved. And other delays happen.

You can bust a tooth on the stuff they call food and wait 30-45 days to see a dentist or more, where they tell you you have to have xx dollars on your books to cover them pulling it, and if you don’t, back to the end of the line you go.

Edit to add: the time he spent with Dr Simring, Dr Hasson, and the Stache were a) to aid in his defense, and b) to rebut that. His defense is over. He’s been acquitted. His rights to move to a state run treatment center aren’t as imperative in a legal sense as his right pre-verdict to defend himself.

This. In any hospital system, triage is a thing. When it comes to mental health care? People in the midst of acute psychotic crisis, who actively pose an immediate danger to themselves or others? They will bump other people when it comes to receiving treatment.

I suspect that is the reason for most of the delays right now.

[ekat]

Poor editor might just up and quit.

[cutter99]

@ekat

Poor editor might just up and quit.

Or do themselves in!

[iridedressage]

@eggbutt

@cutter99

I don’t doubt for a minute that this was written by LK.

Or dictated by her father to someone.

I have an idea of one other person, but I don’t want to post it and take a chance on getting banned.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@trubandloki

I am sure they have other options, they just do not like the other options.
I am sure there are beds at private facilities available.

I’m not positive of that. Each time I had a family member in a suicidal crisis in the last 15 years? There were no beds available at any private or public hospital, for well over 24 hours. Trust me… the ER people called EVERYWHERE. Every single hospital, public and private, in a 2 hour radius.

This was in 2 different states. Both had robust health systems.

That’s just my personal experience with the scarcity of inpatient treatment options for mental health in the US. It’s shocking.

[wsmoak]

I don’t think the judge and the judicial system have a lot of options. They are following the statutes, which the judge quoted when he explained what would happen after the verdict.

The blame here lies more on the state legislature for not funding the state run hospitals sufficiently that there are beds available when needed. And by extension, I suppose, the voters who put those folks into office. So our society in general, which does not prioritize mental health. And this is the result.

[eggbutt]

So Barisone, and others, sit in jail till God knows when waiting for some sort of movement in the facilities. This could take months to years apparently if the facilities are that crowded. Amazing. Absolutely infuriatingly amazing. Seems completely punitive IMO.

[ekat]

I think the other thing to remember here is the verdict came in late Thursday afternoon. Friday was a state holiday. It’s still early today. They’ve had 3 business days plus 3 hours today in which paperwork had to happen, he has to have a med eval first, and transport that includes minimizing security at the jail and the facility has to be arranged.

I’d be shocked if any combined governmental agencies could move that fast.

[eggbutt]

I hear you but it is unacceptable that someone who has already sat confined without treatment for over 32 months, continues to languish one more minute in jail.

[Akogler]

Re Inigos hilarious Swan Song…

All I can say is lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololol

(wipes eyes, takes a breath)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Could that creature be MORE PATHETIC, more delusional, more ridiculous, OMG.

I had seen when posted but thanks EB for the reminder.

[Einhorn]

@eggbutt

already sat confined without treatment for over 32 months, c

While I totally agree that he needs treatment, he chose to languish there, likely knowing he’d be without treatment until the trial.
So yes, people shouldn’t languish in jail, he did pick that option so I’m not going to blame this on NJ.

[ekat]

On one hand, I agree. On the other, I see the realities of what NJ law imposes on acquitees after an NGRI verdict and the burden placed on everyone down to the transport team to make it happen.

In some ways, it’s no different than someone who has done their time, has a court ordered release date but has to wait sometimes close to two weeks to actually be released because of how prisons process releases. It sucks.

There’s so many things about the prison system that suck, but that’s another rant for another day.

[MHM]

[quote=“eggbutt, post:2940, topic:771580”]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@MHM

I know, right??

How can you besmirch the good name of someone with multiple assault charges on their record? Among other things.
[/quote]

It’s remarkable.

But, but, but, there were no convictions, right? It doesn’t count unless there are convictions!! Isn’t that what she always said?

It was interesting how that was always the big distinction for her.

I mean, I don’t have any assault convictions, either. Lol.

But I also don’t have any assault charges to my name. Neither does anyone in my family. Nor even anyone I know!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@eggbutt

So Barisone, and others, sit in jail till God knows when waiting for some sort of movement in the facilities. This could take months to years apparently if the facilities are that crowded. Amazing. Absolutely infuriatingly amazing. Seems completely punitive IMO.

My guess is they’ll find ways to find him a bed at Ann Klein, as soon as an existing patient can be stabilized enough to move on to a different facility. Sooo… that may mean that someone who is psychotic, and has gone off meds, needs to be forced to take meds and then stabilizes over the course of 7-10 days. That’s just a guess on my part. But… the nexus of the legal/mental health care system? It’s full of psychotic people who inevitably fall back into the system when they go off their meds. It’s a pretty specific population… really hard to manage.

So I think it will be an initial delay of only a week or two.

My big question is about the evaluation period… if MB is delayed by 1-2 weeks in terms of transferring to Ann Klein, will the hearing still happen on the 17th? Or no?

I think that’s key.

In some ways… once he’s there… if he is stable, the extreme shortage of beds in psych facilities will work in his favor. The psych professionals will indeed advocate that stable people be moved along to less restrictive treatment ASAP. Barely stable people are rushed out of inpatient treatment all over the country, every single day. Intensive treatment for people who are otherwise stabilized and low safety risk? It happens almost entirely in outpatient settings now.

[MHM]

@eggbutt

There are always warnings about LK but people choose to ignore them and think, “she can’t be that bad!”.

Well, luckily for lots of people, they’ve never crossed paths with anyone like that. So the very idea of it seems inconceivable at first.

[eggbutt]

@Einhorn

So yes, people shouldn’t languish in jail, he did pick that option so I’m not going to blame this on NJ.

How so? He picked what??

[Einhorn]

They will probably have the hearing, the treating physician can do an interim report, or his advocates/attorney can request a continuance if they want to. But having the hearing on the 17th gives them some baseline info to build on toward release.
And just for the record, most facilities are keen to release people when possible, so I don’t anyone there will be trying to “keep” mb longer than necessary.

Edited to add: I didn’t mean to reply directly to you, @Virginia_Horse_Mom