Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

[Cowgirl]

I am puzzled about the recording of ED phone call during the event. First, because it is extraordinarily difficult to record a phone call on a cell phone unless you are the caller and plan to record the call, or unless you have an app installed to record phone calls (who does that??). (This difficulty is built into the cell phones for security reasons.) Anyway, you still have to tap a few things to start a recording if you didn’t plan to record the call at the outset, which would require a certain presence of mind. I find it odd that they may have planned to record their lawyer’s call and MB suddenly shows up. (BTW, it is generally unethical for an attorney to record a call, especially without discussing it with the client first and getting their consent to it, which consent would be stated at the beginning of the call…) It seems lucky to me that this particular call was recorded, but the video camera was turned off.

I don’t care where the money comes from (that will likely come up in a post-judgment deposition, when she loses the civil case). Who cares? There are tons of riders whose family/daddy/husband sponsors their riding, some even on our national teams. In fact, I think it is becoming rarer to find riders who have made their own fortunes and sponsor their own riding. Also, I know lots of families with wealth tend to throw money at their problems, rather than dealing with them. So I don’t see how where the money comes from matters. What matters is that the person has escaped every form of consequence for horrible behavior and therefore has no reason to change, and may, in fact, be emboldened to get worse. Combine that lack of consequences with drug addiction and, well…

[CindyB59]

I don’t think NGRI Is as uncommon as it seems

This was a local case a couple of years ago. Entirely different scenario than MB. The father was my coworker and one time supervisor.

In MB’s case, the jury got it as right as they were able. This case? Not so much. Obviously, he was insane. But he does not deserve to be let loose, ever. Hard to tell if he ever will be.

Double homicide suspect found not guilty by insanity | Courier-Herald

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Cowgirl

I am puzzled about the recording of ED phone call during the event. First, because it is extraordinarily difficult to record a phone call on a cell phone unless you are the caller and plan to record the call, or unless you have an app installed to record phone calls (who does that??). (This difficulty is built into the cell phones for security reasons.) Anyway, you still have to tap a few things to start a recording if you didn’t plan to record the call at the outset, which would require a certain presence of mind. I find it odd that they may have planned to record their lawyer’s call and MB suddenly shows up. (BTW, it is generally unethical for an attorney to record a call, especially without discussing it with the client first and getting their consent to it, which consent would be stated at the beginning of the call…) It seems lucky to me that this particular call was recorded, but the video camera was turned off.

I don’t care where the money comes from (that will likely come up in a post-judgment deposition, when she loses the civil case). Who cares? There are tons of riders whose family/daddy/husband sponsors their riding, some even on our national teams. In fact, I think it is becoming rarer to find riders who have made their own fortunes and sponsor their own riding. Also, I know lots of families with wealth tend to throw money at their problems, rather than dealing with them. So I don’t see how where the money comes from matters. What matters is that the person has escaped every form of consequence for horrible behavior and therefore has no reason to change, and may, in fact, be emboldened to get worse. Combine that lack of consequences with drug addiction and, well…

Who said the phone call from ED to LK during the event was recorded?

[ekat]

There are a few things about that phone call that are odd to me. Most notably, that LK was casually reading a book on the porch (or actually playing with her phone, per testimony) but she didn’t answer her lawyer’s calls, so he called RG’s phone.

I don’t remember that call being recorded, but maybe that’s why it went to RG after she didn’t pick up?

It’s so very strange to me, which is why my gut tells me something influenced call to happen at that time. Add in turning off the camera 20 minutes or so beforehand, and that’s just one more odd coincidence. Instead of actually seeing what happened, you have an “ear-witness” who doesn’t have a clear picture, but still can bolster your story. No way in hell did they expect gunfire, but there’s something very fishy in the details here.

[DownYonder]

@Cowgirl

I don’t care where the money comes from (that will likely come up in a post-judgment deposition, when she loses the civil case).

I don’t really care either where it comes from but there had been a good little sidebar discussion over the past few days about the source of the family wealth and I suddenly thought about the education IRAs (or whatever they are called). And since I don’t have direct experience with such financial devices, I thought I would ask.

And as others have mentioned, it is totally plausible that the K’s made savvy investments through the years, which may have been coupled with inheritances, etc., and therefore have the funds to easily support LK’s horse endeavors. At any rate, it doesn’t matter where the funds come from (as long as there wasn’t anything nefarious involved with the acquisition of said funds).

[ekat]

That was a gruesome reading.

It appears his case ended in a plea agreement, as opposed to a jury verdict.

I found a little snippet of him waiving his right to a trial here on YouTube. It doesn’t show the whole plea, but the judge does ask if he understands he could be committed the rest of his life. That sounds like it may be the best answer for him.

Man charged with killing his parents pleads not guilty by reason of insanity

[CindyB59]

Ironically, another coworkers son killed his cousin the same week. Drugs involved there too. I can’t remember what his outcome was. Prison, I’m pretty sure

[ekat]

Man that’s horrible!

[Scribbler]

@Cowgirl

I am puzzled about the recording of ED phone call during the event. First, because it is extraordinarily difficult to record a phone call on a cell phone unless you are the caller and plan to record the call, or unless you have an app installed to record phone calls (who does that??). (This difficulty is built into the cell phones for security reasons.) Anyway, you still have to tap a few things to start a recording if you didn’t plan to record the call at the outset, which would require a certain presence of mind. I find it odd that they may have planned to record their lawyer’s call and MB suddenly shows up. (BTW, it is generally unethical for an attorney to record a call, especially without discussing it with the client first and getting their consent to it, which consent would be stated at the beginning of the call…) It seems lucky to me that this particular call was recorded, but the video camera was turned off.

I don’t care where the money comes from (that will likely come up in a post-judgment deposition, when she loses the civil case). Who cares? There are tons of riders whose family/daddy/husband sponsors their riding, some even on our national teams. In fact, I think it is becoming rarer to find riders who have made their own fortunes and sponsor their own riding. Also, I know lots of families with wealth tend to throw money at their problems, rather than dealing with them. So I don’t see how where the money comes from matters. What matters is that the person has escaped every form of consequence for horrible behavior and therefore has no reason to change, and may, in fact, be emboldened to get worse. Combine that lack of consequences with drug addiction and, well…

The phone call between ED and LK at the time of the gunshots was not recorded. The phone call was reported from ED’s memory, and he said he forgot some things as it was 4 years ago.

The recording of ED happened in person a few days earlier while ED was giving legal advice to LK and I think JK at the barn. RG was not a represented client and ED said he was not aware of his presence or introduced to him. RG apparently was standing close enough to record ED and LK. Apparently ED only learned about this in the witness stand at the trial?

ED was brought in by JK to handle the evictions issue. I believe he has since identified them as former clients and his association with them was brief, like a week.

[SuzieQNutter]

@Scribbler

@Cowgirl

I am puzzled about the recording of ED phone call during the event. First, because it is extraordinarily difficult to record a phone call on a cell phone unless you are the caller and plan to record the call, or unless you have an app installed to record phone calls (who does that??). (This difficulty is built into the cell phones for security reasons.) Anyway, you still have to tap a few things to start a recording if you didn’t plan to record the call at the outset, which would require a certain presence of mind. I find it odd that they may have planned to record their lawyer’s call and MB suddenly shows up. (BTW, it is generally unethical for an attorney to record a call, especially without discussing it with the client first and getting their consent to it, which consent would be stated at the beginning of the call…) It seems lucky to me that this particular call was recorded, but the video camera was turned off.

I don’t care where the money comes from (that will likely come up in a post-judgment deposition, when she loses the civil case). Who cares? There are tons of riders whose family/daddy/husband sponsors their riding, some even on our national teams. In fact, I think it is becoming rarer to find riders who have made their own fortunes and sponsor their own riding. Also, I know lots of families with wealth tend to throw money at their problems, rather than dealing with them. So I don’t see how where the money comes from matters. What matters is that the person has escaped every form of consequence for horrible behavior and therefore has no reason to change, and may, in fact, be emboldened to get worse. Combine that lack of consequences with drug addiction and, well…

The phone call between ED and LK at the time of the gunshots was not recorded. The phone call was reported from ED’s memory, and he said he forgot some things as it was 4 years ago.

The recording of ED happened in person a few days earlier while ED was giving legal advice to LK and I think JK at the barn. RG was not a represented client and ED said he was not aware of his presence or introduced to him. RG apparently was standing close enough to record ED and LK. Apparently ED only learned about this in the witness stand at the trial?

ED was brought in by JK to handle the evictions issue. I believe he has since identified them as former clients and his association with them was brief, like a week.

He did not seem to remember poor Rosie barking all the time.

[ekat]

That’s one of the things that really bugs me.

[MHM]

@Scribbler

Apparently ED only learned about this in the witness stand at the trial?

When I went back and watched that video a second time, I had the feeling that he already knew the meeting had been recorded. Quite possibly not at the time it happened, but at some point in the intervening 2 1/2 to 4 years, depending on how you read a calendar.

He seemed surprised to know that everybody except him had been provided with a transcript of that recording before his testimony. Or maybe he was trying to give that impression, so it would be more plausible if he was a little vague on the details?

[MHM]

@Scribbler

I believe he has since identified them as former clients and his association with them was brief, like a week.

Does anyone know if he was only associated with them for a week? He certainly seemed to have plenty of opinions about them, as he managed to somehow bring up in his testimony on the witness stand. I’m wondering if they suddenly became his former clients immediately after he got dragged over the coals by Mr. B in the courtroom.

Or maybe they were already his former clients anyway, but he just wanted to make it perfectly clear to God and everyone that he had no association with them any longer.

[avjudge]

@MHM

LK was so “bright and creative”

Wait, I thought that was the prosecution’s psych expert who said that?

[MHM]

@avjudge

@MHM

LK was so “bright and creative”

Wait, I thought that was the prosecution’s psych expert who said that?

You’re right, I was thinking of the wrong person regarding that phrase. But he certainly seemed to be very familiar with the family and their background as it pertained to LK and RG. Or LK, anyway.

[jvanrens]

@MHM

Or maybe they were already his former clients anyway, but he just wanted to make it perfectly clear to God and everyone that he had no association with them any longer.

Since he was brought into the picture to deal with the whole possible eviction situation, they obviously wouldn’t need him any longer, considering the circumstances.

[MHM]

@jvanrens

@MHM

Or maybe they were already his former clients anyway, but he just wanted to make it perfectly clear to God and everyone that he had no association with them any longer.

Since he was brought into the picture to deal with the whole possible eviction situation, they obviously wouldn’t need him any longer, considering the circumstances.

Could be. It certainly sounds like they have provided employment for a lot of lawyers, but maybe they were on a rotating basis depending on the need of the week.

[Scribbler]

@MHM

@Scribbler

I believe he has since identified them as former clients and his association with them was brief, like a week.

Does anyone know if he was only associated with them for a week? He certainly seemed to have plenty of opinions about them, and how LK was so “bright and creative,” as he managed to somehow bring up in his testimony on the witness stand. I’m wondering if they suddenly became his former clients immediately after he got dragged over the coals by Mr. B in the courtroom.

Or maybe they were already his former clients anyway, but he just wanted to make it perfectly clear to God and everyone that he had no association with them any longer.

Bright and ceative was the psychologist expert witness with the mustache I think.

I do not recall that the phone call was taped. I watched thus whole section. He was referring to what he said to police at the time. I’m sure if the call was taped it would have been evidence.

ED was hired by JK to handle the eviction process. At this point a week before the shooting even JK her father paying the bills was wanting her to leave MB but LK was refusing. Funny how that never got mentioned in the Lala posts. Her father had an exit strategy and she refused to move.

ED may have worked for JK before, if JK is a landlord or real estate deals. But he was called in this time just for the eviction to negotiate with MB’s lawyers. And clearly after the shooting his services weren’t needed. He was phoning LK to report the current status of the eviction proceeding between him and MB’s lawyer.

Everyone was working to get her out of there including her father and his lawyer, and she was refusing.

Edited to add: typically you hire a lawyer with the speciality you need. A real estate lawyer, a criminal lawyer, a corporate lawyer, a tax lawyer, a civil litigation lawyer. Typically if you have repeat business with say real estate or contracts etc then you would return to the same lawyer out of ease and convenience. Less likely with criminal and civil litigation.

[MHM]

@DownYonder

@MHM

It just sounded odd to me that she would need someone to groom in addition to the full training service she was paying (or supposed to be paying) for as a boarder at MB’s barn, or any full service barn, for that matter.

Or perhaps they agreed to do their own grooming (currying, brushing, etc.) in exchange for the discounted rate they were getting?

Anything is possible, I guess.

The working student had said something in her testimony about their normal routine at the barn of feeding breakfast, doing chores, and getting horses ready to be worked, which made me think that was the normal procedure there. But maybe they were talking about only some of the horses for MB or MHG to ride, and maybe other people got their own horses ready. Or maybe they did have some sort of different arrangement due to the discount on the board.

I generally tend to think of full board and training being the type of arrangement where the client could basically just get out of the limo, get on the horse, ride, and then leave if they wanted to. But obviously, there are infinite variations at different operations.

[ekat]

He definitely seemed surprised that Mr B was asking about it. Maybe in his super attorney-ness he didn’t think it would come up in court and that he’d be asked about it. What we know about that recording is that the placement of the recorders was discussed. It would be interesting to know what all was said.

When the Moustache was talking about LK, it reminded me of Ollivander in Harry Potter saying He-who-shall-not-be-named did great things. Terrible, yes, but great.