Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since we now know that he was delusional in August, 2019, and a danger to himself and others, it was a fault of SGF to have him employed as a trainer for as long as they did. That’s what the civil suit is about.

This statement makes zero sense. MB was part of SGF so you’re asserting that it was the fault of MB to have MB in his employ? Yes there are other members but SGF was largely MB. And to sue for “failure to predict the future” when it was the plaintiff that caused the mental break in the first place - intentionally so - is just absurd.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@McGurk

Re: IIED and her “career”

and first the disclaimer: IANAL

My limited understanding of this branch of law is that you have to show ACTUAL damages.

So if someone left Barisone’s barn and training program because of the atmosphere at the barn, and they’re willing to be deposed or testify to that, Barisone can recover those actual cash losses.

If someone wanted to come and join the Barisone program, he had empty stalls, and they wouldn’t come while Karanek and Co. were there, again, if they’re willing to be deposed or testify to that, there are actual cash damages.

The problem with LK’s suit is that there aren’t any actual cash losses. IF she were a more likable plaintiff, she might be awarded her medical expenses and some pain and suffering. That would be legit.

I also believe your claim of injury/disability has to be VERY specific in order for you to collect damages. As in; because of the injuries I sustained by the actions of the defendant, I have decreased range of motion in my hips which means it is extremely painful/difficult for me to ride at the level I did previously. Also, you have to get doctors to agree to the severity of the injury and the subsequent limitations and be deposed/tesitfy. In other words, if you’re struggling at second level prior to injury, it’s really hard to claim the injury ruined your chances of getting to FEI, unless you get some really compelling expert witnesses to testify that you are the second incarnation of Charlotte Dujardin who was robbed of your chance because of the injury. And still, determining damages for not be able to pursue a hobby at the same level is a crap shoot. Especially with such an unsympathetic plaintiff.

Now, if the Barisone side wants to try to collect for the 2 1/2 years he was unable to ride, train, teach or compete, when that has been a life long occupation, well, let’s just say, the damages would be easier to determine. Like, look at his tax returns for the past 5 years, average them, and pay 2 1/2 times that amount.

Again, IANAL

ETA: It’s also very, very hard to collect for IIED without physical manifestations of that emotional distress. It’s not enough to say you were traumatized, you have to able to say the trauma left you with headaches and an inability to focus, for instance.

Re bolded. Only likeable gun shot victims can sue for medical bills and pain and suffering? Are you talking about the law or about the likely feelings of jurors?

I doubt MB can sue either LK or the state of NJ for his loss of earnings since August, 2019. Since we now know that he was delusional in August, 2019, and a danger to himself and others, it was a fault of SGF to have him employed as a trainer for as long as they did. That’s what the civil suit is about.

MB wasn’t employed by SGF. He leased the farm, with indemnity clauses, through MB Dressage. LLC’s are specifically designed to protect the owners of the LLC from liability and indemnity clauses further protect the LLC from the actions of others. If the civil suit is about extorting money out of SGF then it’ll be a rude awakening.

[ekat]

I’m curious. Have you actually read the civil suit, the answers, and the cross and counter claims?

Edit to add: should I also talk about contributory and comparative negligence again?

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BrownDerby

@eggbutt

What an amazingly telling comment… sort of like a ditch digger, or cotton picker, or any migrant farm worker, or hell, ANY service profession. Wow! You truly are a piece of work.

Well, they don’t understand English, you know.

English is an amazing language, because it has so many words, some of which have related, but slightly different meanings.

You apparently think that MW could have defined the word “career” as

Career: (noun or adjective) long term paid job

The actual definition is quite different.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@iridedressage

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

I would not talk about a career as a house cleaner, even though paid.

Strange, I have a friend whose job is a house cleaner. It is her career. She has lots of very long term clients because she is do dependable and good at her job.
Why would one not call that a career and talk about it?

Not a made up dig job either. Her real job.

The definition of “career” includes a trajectory or arc of achievement over time. It does not necessarily require that the activity be paid.

I think that all legal work has dignity and deserves respect, including mucking stalls, waiting tables and cleaning houses. In high school I worked at two of these jobs for the earnings, however modest. Neither had the progressive arc of achievement that goes with the idea a career.

I suppose that some would call any continuous employment for most of their working life in a given field as a career, but given the concept of a progression of achievement as part of the definition of career, I see a distinction between a “long term job” and a “career”. I don’t see the paid aspect of the endeavor being a necessary attribute of a “career.”

What about a teacher? What if that teacher has taught 5th grade for 30 years? Career or long term job?

Career.

[BrownDerby]

@Knights_Mom

This statement makes zero sense. MB was part of SGF so you’re asserting that it was the fault of MB to have MB in his employ? Yes there are other members but SGF was largely MB. And to sue for “failure to predict the future” when it was the plaintiff that caused the mental break in the first place - intentionally so - is just absurd.

My thought as well. It would be like filing suit against himself, no? I mean I know people do crazy stuff to get around legalities, like that lady in England who recently married her cat, but this would be an expensive frivolity.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

The definition of “career” includes a trajectory or arc of achievement over time. It does not necessarily require that the activity be paid.

Wait! What about career criminals? A term used by even the court system.

Is it escalation of crimes from say, for example, underage drinking to drug charges to burglary and/or assault that shows the trajectory or arc of achievement?

Used as an adjective, the meaning is somewhat different, as is often the case in the English language.

But yes, career criminals usually do exhibit an profession from lesser crimes to more major crimes. Thanks for pointing out the element of a progression of (socially negative) achievements.

[MorganSercu]

Plus given how many people do have mental health issues a great deal of the country would be unemployed if their mental health, plus former and current use of mental health services was to be held against them.

Might as well refuse to hire a woman because she is or might get pregnant. Or someone who is diabetic because they may cost their employer money someday.

The ADA is there to prevent it.

Plus MB was SGF too. Can he refuse to hire himself?

And despite his issues (and they are not unique), he was very successful in his career. Can’t say the same for Lauren. She doesn’t even do fancy vacuum patterns. Rob may though.

[ekat]

On the civil Suit: the attorneys for SGF filed a proposed order requesting the stay to be lifted yesterday.

For those that think SGF wants to settle, or give RG an extortionate payoff or whatever, it’s interesting that they’re the first ones to court asking to bring on the discovery.

[DownYonder]

@MorganSercu

She doesn’t even do fancy vacuum patterns. Rob may though.

But he may fold laundry using one of those fancy techniques that show up on FB or TikTok periodically. Would that be enough to consider him as having a career?

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

So neither my law job nor my vacuuming is a career?

Damn!!

Well, you anointed yourself as “sage”. Was that a reference to the pinnacle of your progression of achievement as a clerk or as a vacuumer?

You may bestow the term “career” on either of your long term endeavors, just as you bestowed yourself the title of “sage”.

To me, I would consider your employment as law clerk as a career, but not your employment as a vacuumer as a career, especially since the latter is a joke. To some extent it is in the eye of the beholder.

I have no problem with LK referring to her “riding career”. But then I fully understand that those of you have made (unpaid) careers of trashing LK need to, well, trash her for using the phrase. It’s your job/career.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Graymaresrule

I’ve had 4 abdominal surgeries, belly button to pubic bone. Six months after the last I rode 100 miles in 6 days in Ireland.

My lung issues however may have grounded me permanently, though not without A fight.

Sorry to hear about the lung issues. It must make everyday life more difficult, and COVID more dangerous.

Has it affected your riding?

[Sdel]

@ekat

On the civil Suit: the attorneys for SGF filed a proposed order requesting the stay to be lifted yesterday.

Seeing as how SGF as an LLC is an independent party, and discovery is reciprocal, they can certainly carry MB’s weight for a while in progressing the case.

[MorganSercu]

Only if he does hair too. Ladies’ maids have some mad skills. Or they should in this day and age. Maybe he is her dresser too (1983 film)?

The plot is based on Harwood’s experiences as dresser to English Shakespearean actor-manager Sir Donald Wolfit , who is the model for the character “Sir”. The film opens with a performance of Othello at a regional theatre in Britain during World War II.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

So neither my law job nor my vacuuming is a career?

Damn!!

Well, you anointed yourself as “sage”. Was that a reference to the pinnacle of your progression of achievement as a clerk or as a vacuumer?

You may bestow the term “career” on either of your long term endeavors, just as you bestowed yourself the title of “sage”.

To me, I would consider your employment as law clerk as a career, but not your employment as a vacuumer as a career, especially since the latter is a joke. To some extent it is in the eye of the beholder.

I have no problem with LK referring to her “riding career”. But then I fully understand that those of you have made (unpaid) careers of trashing LK need to, well, trash her for using the phrase. It’s your job/career.

No. I like sage. I like growing it. Looking at it. Smudging with it.

[Sdel]

@Knights_Mom

Smudging with it.

Definitely need a lot of that lately…

[ekat]

@Sdel

Seeing as how SGF as an LLC is an independent party, and discovery is reciprocal, they can certainly carry MB’s weight for a while in progressing the case.

Yes.

It’s just pretty telling that as soon as the clock ticked on 14 days post verdict, they were the first ones trying to get the case moving again.

[Wicky]

A lady married her cat?

Why? and, what did the cat get out of it?

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

I would not talk about a career as a house cleaner, even though paid.

Strange, I have a friend whose job is a house cleaner. It is her career. She has lots of very long term clients because she is do dependable and good at her job.
Why would one not call that a career and talk about it?

Not a made up dig job either. Her real job.

Also honestly? If I was going to suggest a plan for someone who was a hard physical worker but had no educational qualifications, but the drive to be an entrepreneur? You could do a lot worse than starting a cleaning service, residential or commercial. They charge a lot! It’s absolutely a growth area.

I don’t know why people think “entrepreneur” s a fancy posh title or occupation. Most entrepreneurs start doing a hard boring job then manage to roll it into a business model where they employ others. Food service, cleaning, landscaping, construction, manufacturing. Most of the folks who build those companies spent years in the trenches doing the hard work.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since we now know that he was delusional in August, 2019, and a danger to himself and others, it was a fault of SGF to have him employed as a trainer for as long as they did. That’s what the civil suit is about.

This statement makes zero sense. MB was part of SGF so you’re asserting that it was the fault of MB to have MB in his employ? Yes there are other members but SGF was largely MB. And to sue for “failure to predict the future” when it was the plaintiff that caused the mental break in the first place - intentionally so - is just absurd.

Weren’t you a professional career law clerk? Who bragged about “telling the lawyers what to do?”

SGF and Michael Barisone, as an individual, and Michael Barisone Dressage, as a business, are distinct legal entities. They each have different policies for liability insurance, different tax ID numbers, and different lawyers.

How do you not understand that SGF as a legal entity has the right to protect its legal and financial rights by suing Michael Barisone, the individual, Michael Barisone Dressage, the business, and Ruth Cox? Obviously SGF as a legal entity is going to say, ‘the liability belongs to them, not to SGF.’