Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

[rothmpp]

@Fat_Dinah

Most of you don’t want to hear this.
But, the question in a civil case brought by LK will be, was she injured and, if so, who is responsible.
A verdict of NGI means that a criminal case found Barisone shot her, almost causing her death and resulting in permanent damage that impacts her life. A judge could rule that whatever led to that shooting is moot, it has been es tablished that it occurred.
Are the farm owners liable? There will have to be evidence of knowledge that there were illegal guns and access to them.
The property owners have a good damages case against Barisone: as the tenant he allowed the guns to be there. He did not keep the property maintained by not properly repairing the water damage in a timely ma tter.
Barisone cannot claim damages related to bring charged with crimes. Those were made in good faith by a public officer and proved not frivolous (the NGI finding). He can claim emotional dis tress, depending on his ongoing evaluation, either temporary or permanent. That’s the only place where LK’s actions have relevance.
These offsetting claims seem like they will lead to some negotiated set tlement.

Here’s the thing - she’s gong to have to demonstrate actionable damages, loss of income, enjoyment of activities, etc… It’s going to be problematic to establish loss of income for someone who has, by all appearances, not had gainful employment. Despite her claims, she was not an elite athlete on her way to international career. Hashtagging yourself “athlete” on Instagram doesn’t make it so. Juries often don’t find a plaintiff with delusions of grandeur to be all that sympathetic.

To establish loss of enjoyment of life will subject ALL her medical records, including any therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, etc, to discovery - usually much further back that just from the incident on. I can’t imagine that she’s going to be all too jazzed to release all those records.

I know this from personal experience when we were sued over a minor car accident and the guy suing us had to release ALL of his medical records. I’m quite sure he had no idea that would happen. Our insurance company was ready to settle right up until they got the medical records. They ended up offering him a tiny amount of money that he jumped at.

Water damage taking 6 months to repair?? That’s nothing. Half the time it takes that long for the insurance company to agree to the claim in the first place.

Guns on the property? He had a gun safe in his office - the property owners very likely knew there were guns and were properly stored. It has not been established in the public record that any of the guns other than RC’s not being registered in NJ were illegal. I don’t recall it being testified to in court that any of the other weapons were illegal.

I think you might be surprised by how the plaintiff’s admitted campaign of terror would play out in front of a jury. Civil court is not subject to such strict interpretation of the criminal code. Many, many people will be able to see but for the grace of god how they could have been in the same situation with a person they at one point in their lives.

[hey101]

I am so happy the jury ruled as it did. It makes me wonder if some of the “pro safesport no matter what” crowd has re-evaluated their opinion that SS can in fact be weaponized.

It will be interesting to see what SS does, if anything, in the coming weeks/months with both LK and MB

[Knights_Mom]

@rothmpp

@Fat_Dinah

Most of you don’t want to hear this.
But, the question in a civil case brought by LK will be, was she injured and, if so, who is responsible.
A verdict of NGI means that a criminal case found Barisone shot her, almost causing her death and resulting in permanent damage that impacts her life. A judge could rule that whatever led to that shooting is moot, it has been es tablished that it occurred.
Are the farm owners liable? There will have to be evidence of knowledge that there were illegal guns and access to them.
The property owners have a good damages case against Barisone: as the tenant he allowed the guns to be there. He did not keep the property maintained by not properly repairing the water damage in a timely ma tter.
Barisone cannot claim damages related to bring charged with crimes. Those were made in good faith by a public officer and proved not frivolous (the NGI finding). He can claim emotional dis tress, depending on his ongoing evaluation, either temporary or permanent. That’s the only place where LK’s actions have relevance.
These offsetting claims seem like they will lead to some negotiated set tlement.

Here’s the thing - she’s gong to have to demonstrate actionable damages, loss of income, enjoyment of activities, etc… It’s going to be problematic to establish loss of income for someone who has, by all appearances, not had gainful employment. Despite her claims, she was not an elite athlete on her way to international career. Hashtagging yourself “athlete” on Instagram doesn’t make it so. Juries often don’t find a plaintiff with delusions of grandeur to be all that sympathetic.

To establish loss of enjoyment of life will subject ALL her medical records, including any therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, etc, to discovery - usually much further back that just from the incident on. I can’t imagine that she’s going to be all too jazzed to release all those records.

I know this from personal experience when we were sued over a minor car accident and the guy suing us had to release ALL of his medical records. I’m quite sure he had no idea that would happen. Our insurance company was ready to settle right up until they got the medical records. They ended up offering him a tiny amount of money that he jumped at.

Water damage taking 6 months to repair?? That’s nothing. Half the time it takes that long for the insurance company to agree to the claim in the first place.

Guns on the property? He had a gun safe in his office - the property owners very likely knew there were guns and were properly stored. It has not been established in the public record that any of the guns other than RC’s not being registered in NJ were illegal. I don’t recall it being testified to in court that any of the other weapons were illegal.

I think you might be surprised by how the plaintiff’s admitted campaign of terror would play out in front of a jury. Civil court is not subject to such strict interpretation of the criminal code. Many, many people will be able to see but for the grace of god how they could have been in the same situation with a person they at one point in their lives.

And there is so much more that won’t work in their favor.

[CindyB59]

Curiosity question.

Someone mentioned that in the fact was, MB shot LK. In my mind, that fact was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

In a civil case, can more be brought out that puts doubt on how the shooting happened? Was the scuffle before, during, or after? Etc. All the things that got shut down in the criminal trial.

[Jenerationx]

@ScaredOfHorses

You can see his interview here at about 1:41:16. I tried to make the link so it would go directly to that timestamp in the video, but I’m not sure if it wall work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbSVpX83JPY&t=6074s

It worked for me. Thanks. I have a hard time watching MB’s reaction to the verdict again.

[Fat_Dinah]

The jury found that the charge of attempted murder was proven. Period.
It then found he was not criminally liable because he was insane at the time of the shooting.
To keep arguing about alternate scenarios is ridiculous. It is like all the JFK conspiracy theories: the shots from the grassy knoll, etc.

[Fat_Dinah]

I am retired. I just trail ride.
If someone hits me with their truck while I am bicycling, would I be barred from damages because I don’t earn money and I am not an elite rider?

[CindyB59]

I disagree. I think too much info was suppressed.

OJ Simpson, criminal vs civil being a prime example.

[Fat_Dinah]

You realize that civil case found against the accused shooter who was acquitted?

[OntheFnce]

@rothmpp

@Fat_Dinah

Most of you don’t want to hear this.
But, the question in a civil case brought by LK will be, was she injured and, if so, who is responsible.
A verdict of NGI means that a criminal case found Barisone shot her, almost causing her death and resulting in permanent damage that impacts her life. A judge could rule that whatever led to that shooting is moot, it has been es tablished that it occurred.
Are the farm owners liable? There will have to be evidence of knowledge that there were illegal guns and access to them.
The property owners have a good damages case against Barisone: as the tenant he allowed the guns to be there. He did not keep the property maintained by not properly repairing the water damage in a timely ma tter.
Barisone cannot claim damages related to bring charged with crimes. Those were made in good faith by a public officer and proved not frivolous (the NGI finding). He can claim emotional dis tress, depending on his ongoing evaluation, either temporary or permanent. That’s the only place where LK’s actions have relevance.
These offsetting claims seem like they will lead to some negotiated set tlement.

Here’s the thing - she’s gong to have to demonstrate actionable damages, loss of income, enjoyment of activities, etc… It’s going to be problematic to establish loss of income for someone who has, by all appearances, not had gainful employment. Despite her claims, she was not an elite athlete on her way to international career. Hashtagging yourself “athlete” on Instagram doesn’t make it so. Juries often don’t find a plaintiff with delusions of grandeur to be all that sympathetic.

To establish loss of enjoyment of life will subject ALL her medical records, including any therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, etc, to discovery - usually much further back that just from the incident on. I can’t imagine that she’s going to be all too jazzed to release all those records.

I know this from personal experience when we were sued over a minor car accident and the guy suing us had to release ALL of his medical records. I’m quite sure he had no idea that would happen. Our insurance company was ready to settle right up until they got the medical records. They ended up offering him a tiny amount of money that he jumped at.

Water damage taking 6 months to repair?? That’s nothing. Half the time it takes that long for the insurance company to agree to the claim in the first place.

Guns on the property? He had a gun safe in his office - the property owners very likely knew there were guns and were properly stored. It has not been established in the public record that any of the guns other than RC’s not being registered in NJ were illegal. I don’t recall it being testified to in court that any of the other weapons were illegal.

I think you might be surprised by how the plaintiff’s admitted campaign of terror would play out in front of a jury. Civil court is not subject to such strict interpretation of the criminal code. Many, many people will be able to see but for the grace of god how they could have been in the same situation with a person they at one point in their lives.

This plus every social media post, drug use, etc. will be brought up.

[CindyB59]

Yup, I do.

[CindyB59]

But, I shows what a different perspective a civil jury can see when presented different/more info

[KarenK]

@Fiesta01

Is there a way that someone can match my IP under my screen name here with my IP under my other SM accounts?

There are many ways to get an IP addy… https://freepctech.com/how-to/find-someones-ip-address/

[Sugarfoot1]

I am going to verify this but the liability falls on her as she is the one who drove him to the point of insanity, or hopefully this is what they will prove if she takes it that far and if he prevails she will get a check for a big fat zero and even more bad publicity, so bring it on sista

[Fat_Dinah]

If you read my post, I say that Barisone can offer her actions in his civil suit for mental distress and injury.
But it would have nothing to do with any case the farm owners bring against him. And, note, I said if the farm owners did not know about the guns or had barred guns. It is proven that Barisone allowed one illegal gun on the property, Ruth’s.
If you had a tenant that let water damage make a property unl ivable for months, you would think that’s OK.I
These cases won’t be argued as one. They are separate actions.

[OntheFnce]

@Fat_Dinah

I am retired. I just trail ride.
If someone hits me with their truck while I am bicycling, would I be barred from damages because I don’t earn money and I am not an elite rider?

You might be awarded for pain, suffering, medical but if you do not work then you would not be awarded money for loss of work income.

[Scribbler]

@Fat_Dinah

I am retired. I just trail ride.
If someone hits me with their truck while I am bicycling, would I be barred from damages because I don’t earn money and I am not an elite rider?

Exactly.

In Canada at least damages are based on lost income. It’s an issue for street people who are at a higher risk for getting hit, but who have no lost income. Also insurance companies will try to argue lower lost earnings even on employed folks. Medical care is free here so you don’t sue for that to be covered.

I realize the US has a component of personal suffering.

[Fat_Dinah]

So, Lauren can be awarded damages for pain, suffering, medical, too?

[Scribbler]

@Fat_Dinah

So, Lauren can be awarded damages for pain, suffering, medical, too?

Typically these can form part of a civil suit in the USA. However it’s very subjective and juries can swing widely one way or another.

[Ghazzu]

@Fat_Dinah

I am retired. I just trail ride.
If someone hits me with their truck while I am bicycling, would I be barred from damages because I don’t earn money and I am not an elite rider?

IANAL, but you will not be able to claim loss of income. That, in many cases, is a substantial sum of money.