Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

It means that the state did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that MB intentionally fired the gun at RG. It could well be that all three shots were intended for LK, or even that it was one of the two shots that went through LK that went through the window.

In the offered plea deal, the state offered “guilty” on just one count each of the two offenses. I take that as acknowledgement that the case wrt RG was always much weaker given that no bullets hit him.

The jury can “believe” that MB shot at RG’s head without determining that the attempted murder of RG has been established beyond a reasonable doubt.

I would have gone with not guilty on the two counts wrt RG, as well. I would have gone either guilty or NGI on the two counts wrt LK because I think the state (which included LKs testimony) did make its case wrt to LK. I honestly don’t know whether I’d have gone with guilty or with NGI. It’s clear to me that he was “insane” in the lay sense of it being such an irrational, bizarre act, but it’s not clear to me that it fit the legal definition of insanity.

However, I was not on the jury, and I respect the jury’s decision on that difficult issue. I think MB got the vigorous defense he deserved, and justice was served.

What I don’t like about the continuing flavor of the threads is the “zero sum” mentality; people assuming that a good and just outcome for MB is automatically a defeat and slap down for LK.

Contrary to what numerous posters have already stated, the court did not establish that “LK drove MB insane”. They simply decided he was insane, and therefore was not criminally responsible.

As IM pointed out before being predictably deleted, why should LK care whether MB goes to prison for 20 years or goes to a mental institution until he is deemed no longer a risk? It’s not a zero sum situation in which MB rotting in jail for 20 years somehow makes LK better off. I think either a hung jury or a straight guilty would be worse for LK because with a hung jury it might be retried, and a guilty verdict would have been appealed - it would go on and on. Either of those verdicts would have been worse for LK.

LKs civil suit can now proceed. As finders of fact, the jury has determined that MB did shoot her, that SGF did allow guns not registered in NJ on the farm, and those guns were available to mentally unstable man.

MBs insanity means that he escapes criminal responsibility for the shooting. It’s not at all clear to me that his insanity absolves MB and SGF, or their insurance company, of civil liability.

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Those sentiments should be passed to SS and USEF. If nothing else, loss of money could move them to ban her.

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I’m not arguing with at all. But can you please explain to me how LK’s suit is going to survive her allegation of Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress? How is she going to prove the whole Intentional part? And how would that weigh more than MB’s counterclaim? Because I can’t wrap my head around that at all.

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This

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I am so relieved this is over, and that Barisone was not found guilty. I can see why finding him Not Guilty (vs NGI) on some of the charges was difficult for this jury given the forensics were so awful and the camera was either turned off or footage deleted, and that very clearly Lauren was shot and the defense wasn’t really offered much latitude to explore the timeline of the confrontation/beating/struggle to offer up alternate theories. However much we may believe something else might have gone down, with MB’s lack of recollection and the aforementioned issues, no other theories could be offered to them to consider. So as much as I myself could not find him Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt given the evidence and testimony presented, I can see how a straight up Not Guilty would be hard to reach on the charge of attempted murder of LK. I also believe the NG on the counts that involve the boyfriend show that the jury didn’t believe either of them.

Not Guilty by reason of Insanity is an entirely understandable verdict given Lauren’s campaign of terror. People with mental illness are triggered by the actions of others and her actions went beyond the pale. I am so relieved he has a path towards a life and hopefully (court mandated) mental health support. Too bad LK isn’t mandated to seek the same. Clearly she needs help… and clearly she is a danger to others.

I hope 48 Hours gives us more insight into what happened and into the thinking of the jury.

I’m so glad this is over and glad at least some of her behavior and what transpired has now been brought to light (and not just in Barisone threads on COTH with some very sketchy narrators and a whole lot of agendas.)

I think @Seeker1 should reconsider posting here and focus instead on getting her daughter the help she needs. That said, I think some of the attacks against her are a bit unkind. Maybe Kirby sucks, maybe she is trying to be a supportive mom, who knows. But I think the pile on is a bit much. She has her whole life to consider what if anything she did to contribute to her daughter’s behavior. That’s probably punishment enough. I know it would pain me. She may not be thinking clearly today, but if she has a conscience, she will… soon enough.

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Was she called as a witness to testify on the issue of whether or not MB was legally insane?

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What difference would it make either way? She testified that she lies. She lied under oath. Why would you even think to ask about her testimony or was she called or not called or whatever?

Again, we all see what went on.

You are pissing against the wind.

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The most useful thing she could do to be supportive today right after the verdict came out was to come here and post on the BB??

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It’s almost like Kirby Abooey has been posting.

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EXCELLENT post. :heart:

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And perhaps if Lauren’s horrible behavior hadn’t pushed him to that point she wouldn’t have been shot. Stating clearly on the stand that she set out to destroy him was certainly truthful.

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The prosecution was careful not to get into the issue of a “plot”, since premeditation is not required for attempted murder. All that’s required is “intent” at the moment.

LK has said in SM posts that there was a plot, but I don’t remember either side eliciting claims about a plot in her testimony.

On RG, again the issue is the reasonable doubt standard. I believe her that MB fired a shot at RG, but there’s not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he did so.

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That’s why I said she should reconsider coming here and focus on her daughter, who clearly needs help after all we have heard. I think she is making a huge error. That said, my severely drug addicted sister (also a heroin addict like LK) who was terribly mentally ill and eventually killed herself caused a lot of us to not think rationally when she did crazy stuff. So I am willing to give Kirby the benefit of the doubt that her Ill-advised appearance here and words chosen here might not have been well thought out.

Edited: ill-advised, not I’ll. Siri hates me.

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Can I just say that suffering from depression and anxiety connected to PTSD from a toxic childhood is not all that uncommon. I raise my hand and say that I am part of that tribe.

Just because that makes us easier targets does NOT mean that the people who target us aren’t culpable in a creating a situation of severe stress that causes us to become undone.

Kudos to MB for seeking help years ago. That is the true legacy of his childhood. Wanting better for himself and those he loved.

That is bravery. To look right into the lion’s den and try to deal with it.
Sheilah

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My childhood wasn’t all toxic, but I suffer from anxiety and depression and tribe member I am. I can totally see how he was triggered.

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I would feel sorry if she weren’t coming on here and trying to control the narrative for her daughter. That is part of enabling. LK will never become a decent, contributing member of society (something that we should all strive to be) until she gets help for her problems. She will never get to that point of seeking help, if her parents continue to enable her.

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The jury did not rule that LK drove MB insane, nor were they asked to. However the testimony given at trial by numerous people, including LK and RG, clearly showed that to be the case.

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@Seeker1 any comments on the threats & statements Lala made to people on here?

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She has testified that she has lied on SM.

I don’t approve of lying on SM media, myself, but I see a big difference between lying on FB, CoTH, and in texts as very different from lying under oath.

My point was that the verdict of NGI means that the jury accepted the state’s case, which included the testimony of RG and LK, to the effect that MB was found, beyond a reasonable doubt, to have committed attempted murder against LK.

The court also found MB to be legally insane, but that does not impugn any of her testimony either, since she never testified to the belief he was sane.

You have just accused her of a crime, perjury, by saying that she lied under oath in the trial. She has not been charged with perjury. Bolding mine.

I doubt CoTH will enforce their rule that accusing someone a crime requires you to drop anonymity. However, aren’t you concerned about LK threatening to sue you for libel?

BTW, I’m not threatening to sue you for libel or anything else.

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If MB went to prison, LK could have sought restitution and liens on his property. Don’t fall for the bait.

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