Barn Staff Making Me Uncomfortable - Seeking Advice

Ugh, gross. This idea that a woman’s body is public property of all men, unless the woman says otherwise?

And, of course, women are also supposed to be “nice” and “friendly” and “smile,” and if they don’t, they are condemned. Then, if they fulfill the social script of femininity they’ve been taught since birth, the guy can always say, “she never said she was uncomfortable, she was going along with my advances all the while.”

Fuck that.

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Age really makes no difference when you are talking about consenting adults. I would have found it creepy at that age and would have said something but I easily speak my mind.

Boundaries and consent have always been taught but it is up to the individual to set the boundaries they prefer from the beginning, especially if you don’t like to be touched in any way, which seems to be common with people on here.

Most people I know would shake hands.

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OP is not consenting. This is the issue here. OP NOT telling him no does not mean she consents.

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OP is telling everyone other than this individual that they are not consenting? She hasn’t said anything to this man to let him know his advances are not ok.

You women on here really scare me. If you don’t tell someone NO then you are, in all reality saying you are ok with it. We learned this back in the dark ages.

News flash. We don’t live in the dark ages anymore.

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Thank you, OP, for opening the door to one of the best and most timely COTH discussions ever. :slight_smile:

So this is a general remark, not directly related to OP ‘s situation, because hopefully it doesn’t go this way.

Ladies, speaking of weird, we have now entered a societal phase where things can get flipped.

It has happened that law enforcement has charged the woman with assaulting the man when she was fighting him away. He may have touched her, but he hadn’t beaten her or done anything clearly forceful at that moment (the handshakes and hugs might be viewed that way).

Because ‘abuse can go both ways’, and all that.

Women usually feel at such a physical disadvantage when they feel threatened by a man. If we are going to strike back to keep a man away before what we perceive as an impending assault, to protect ourselves, maybe we go Defcon 3 on him to be sure of the outcome. As one of the videos said, fighting defensively means leaving them unable to come back on you.

Some of the self-defense suggestions in the thread and videos seem to lean that way - overkill is good defense. But. When I was living in New York city, I was advised more than once that if Something Happens in the subway or anywhere else, leave the guy incapacitated, and then run like hell. If no one can identify you then fergodssake do not stick around to talk to the police.

Some of the self-defense suggestion seem to lean the way of — let’s call it ‘decisive’. :grin: On principle, I am all for it. Let him have it.

But be wise about how are you do it, and what you do afterward.

Example of this from the news. Some of you may have followed the saga of Gabrielle Petito, who was murdered by her partner and companion, while they were together on an extended road trip. A few weeks prior to the murder, the couple were stopped by police in a small town after someone reported to police what appeared to be a physical altercation between them.

Somehow what the police heard about, or maybe saw, was her punching him in the arm, without having seen that before that he had been grabbing her head.

So the police were going to charge her! They actually told her boyfriend that they were going to do the couple a favor and not charge her and take her in, but just separate them for 24 hours and then send them on their way if he felt safe with her. He was visibly pleased with this outcome.

And by the way, he was an average size guy, while she was a very petite woman.

There is a podcast that did a great analysis of all the mistakes the police made in that situation. Especially their very poor analysis of the dynamics between the couple.

But nonetheless, it’s an example of how a police overreach into supposed fairness can make it problematic to defend yourself physically.

Definitely protect yourself. It’s better to be charged than to endure a beating or a rape.

But keep in mind that there are legal parameters that may follow the incident. Hopefully it does not work out like that and the police use common sense. But like everything else, it helps to be aware.

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Alright: personal story time to add a lil’ levity and maybe put this logic in terms of “not okay.” Bear in mind, at the time AND in hindsight, I don’t personally view this scenario as any kind of (intentional) sexual harassment, just two really dang awkward HS kids who didn’t know how to socialize b/c shy awkward nerdy teens.)

My sophomore year of HS, I had a crush on this boy who was a little bit older (12th grade but I believe he had a birthday late in the school year and I have a Dec. birthday so he’d have been a bit closer to a year older rather than 2 years older than me). We were both in band together, same instrument even, and we had one other class besides band together, earth science.

I’m pretty sure the crush was mutual and he was just a tall, skinny, shy teenage boy who had next to no idea how to talk to girls (and on my end, I was a tall-ish, awkward nerdy teenage girl who didn’t really know how to talk to a boy I was crushing on but was otherwise generally not shy). We would walk to earth science class together, his locker was in the band hall, mine wasn’t, but there was a water fountain just down the hall from where my locker was and I’d habitually stop, get a drink, meet up with him and we’d walk the rest of the way to class together chatting about whatever. Then when that class was drawing to a close (it was the last class of the day for us), all of us students would kind of gather near the door ready to leave.

This was literally the kind of crush where seemingly everyone in your circle picks up on the crush and you get teased in that half-friendly way, so that didn’t help either, I’m sure b/c anytime someone would say something I’d just go beet red and sort of sputter. :laughing:

Welp, one time at the end of earth science class the boy snuck up behind me and tried to hug me. Now, I was not completely horrified by this as much as surprised, and tried to do the ol’ “dude, back off” elbow to the ribs. Misjudged and accidentally clobbered him upside the head, apologized for the punch and said I was only trying to elbow him to get him to back up. We had a sub in class that day, awesome grandmotherly lady, and she saw it all and said something along the lines of “I’d have punched him ON PURPOSE” had that been her back when.

I did not and still don’t personally consider this outright harassment, I didn’t feel horribly uncomfortable in the situation nor was I in any considerable danger, we were two dorky awkward teens who didn’t really know how to talk to each other and despite him being a little older neither of us had tons of experience w/dealing with people we liked (some people I knew who knew him growing up said he’d always been super-duper shy w/girls) and he deffffffinitely learned his lesson about boundaries that day, never tried it again. (He also had a group of buddies of mixed gender he kinda did the hug thing with so that was also just him and his friends, he truly did not mean a thing by it. We however both remained too awkwardly shy to admit to the other that we had a crush on them so he graduated that year and we went our separate ways.)

(For me this ended up as “funny story about the time I accidentally punched someone in the head.” And I’d half forgotten about it 'til this thread. :laughing: Again, there was no malicious intent, just awkward teens, I’d feel a LOT differently about this in a situation with adults who are acquaintances at best.)

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Not everyone is you and not everyone is raised to exert boundaries.

OP did not consent, nor has she, from what she has told us, said anything that would indicate consent to escalation from a handshake to a hug. This man is absolutely a creep lacking in boundaries and who knows what he might try. OP needs to reclaim her power and assert that she is not comfortable with this, and not beat around the bush about it or cushion it in a cloak of politeness.

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This.

Get. OUT. Of. Here. With. That. DISGUSTING, SHAMEFUL DISPLAY OF VICTIM-BLAMING.

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Obviously it is worse. People still can’t read your mind. If someone does something that is not ok with you then tell them. If they won’t listen then you take appropriate action by informing appropriate supervisors or law enforcement.

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And what have we ALL been suggesting to OP?

  1. Tell this guy “no” the next time he does a handshake, and that “no” alone is MORE than sufficient.

  2. Report this to the barn owner/manager.

Yes, self-defense courses, etc. HAVE been discussed to help OP build her confidence, generally and/or give her the tools she needs, if, god forbid, this specific creep or any future creeps REALLY ramp-up and escalate.

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I am not a big Meghan Trainor fan but did always find this song catchy when I’d hear it on the radio. Maybe music will explain to some on here who seem to need it that “no” is a complete sentence:

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Honestly, the onus is never on the person being harassed or propositioned to make it clear that it isn’t okay. You don’t start feeling up people in professional settings, full stop. I mean, it’s not an issue here, but a boarder shouldn’t have to feel as if she needs to flirt with some dude to make sure her horse is taken care of properly.

If assaulted, strike back, of course. The only reason I wouldn’t initiate physicality (except in self-defense), like shoving away a hand, is because some sick dude might consider it foreplay or something. Which is also why you don’t want to get into “bantering” with this guy, even telling him no. Just say no. It’s safest to be as boring and direct as a public service announcement.

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My freshman year homecoming dance (1999), I had friends set me up with a mutual friend that I didn’t know. He was WAY too presumptuous with the touchy feely stuff for me and I ended up ditching him at the dance. Hand holding, his arm around my shoulders or waist made me extremely uncomfortable. I SHOULD have set boundaries, but at 15 years old, I was clueless so ditching him it was!

He ended up being a nice enough guy and dated someone I knew in high school for a while, but a big nope from me.

That was a long time ago and nowadays, this stuff doesn’t fly as far as it used to and thank goodness it doesn’t.

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And if you do tell a guy “no,” you’re a big meanie because you’re hurting his feelings and he meant no real harm? Give me a break.

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This is why you communicate before you act.

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I think the OP did make clear that he in fact doesn’t do any of this when there is anyone else around, which suggests that he is aware that he probably shouldn’t be doing it. In other words, what he’s doing is not just a harmless flirtation, but instead it’s a prelude to something way more physical and violent.

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Good. Then there will be no inappropriate hugging.

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Biiiiiiiiiiingo.

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