Barn Staff Making Me Uncomfortable - Seeking Advice

Oh I’m the first one to move away from physical touch, with an accompanied look of disgust.

I, personally, wouldn’t have been offended by the simple handshake, but once it turned to a lingering one you bet I would have snatched my hand back, taken a step back, and used my signature glare of daggers.

Not everyone is naturally assertive though, and men like this take advantage of that. That’s how we got to this point. It’s not OP’s fault in the slightest - he’s doing this because he believes he can.

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Okay - again, most martial arts instructors will advise NOT escalating the situation and extricating yourself from it.

I see the suggestions of martial arts on here more a “if you HAVE to fight, you better know how/it will give you more confidence.”

Look - I’m going to straight-up admit, I am extreeeeeeeeemely lucky in this regard and I realize it. I can’t recall any situation where I’ve been sexually harassed past maybe being catcalled once by someone in a passing car and that happened so fast it barely registered in my mind in the moment and I wasn’t like creeped on otherwise.

But, I am still a woman, I still know that unfortunately many other women go through this kind of stuff. I also know men can be dirtbags without sexually harassing anyway, let alone if they harass you.

Here’s how I would handle this as a generally confident 30 YO woman:

  1. I would very clearly tell Mr. Handsy that I am not interested the next time he tries this. “No” is a complete sentence.

  2. I would report the overall situation to the barn owner or manager, ASAP.

  3. If Mr. Handsy escalates, he would very likely get a boot or knee to the nuts as I extricated myself from the situation and I would get the heck outta there and report to the barn owner/barn manager OR law enforcement if needed. If he grabbed me and didn’t let go, yes, I absolutely would fight back however I could.

This.

I think I’m lucky in many regards, but I also know I can give off this kind of intimidating vibe pretty easily. Just…some combo of my resting face expression, maybe a lil’ bit my height and how I carry myself. I think I’ve just never LOOKED like an easy target to those types so I’m generally left alone, IDK, I know how lucky I am. (I don’t mean that in a victim blame-y way, please no one read it that way. I know you can absolutely do EVERYTHING right and still get creeped on or worse. I’m just insanely lucky. I realize most aren’t nearly so fortunate.)

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I agree she does not need an excuse but since she had stated that she was uncomfortable telling him to back off I thought it might help her be more assertive.

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I absolutely have.

I didn’t advocate physical violence to the OP but when I was working in retail, I had to deal with a cashier who thought it was okay to touch me. He patted my shoulder once and I stated in very clear terms that he was not to touch me, ever. A week or so later, he grabbed my shoulder and I whacked his hand off my shoulder and told him loudly never to touch anyone in the store without their express permission. EVER. And I had no qualms about doing that in the middle of a busy store, loudly.

Nope, no charges. Though the store manager would have called the police on my behalf if I had requested that she do so.

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I found that a tote bag full of library books is useful for more than just reading.

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This.

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No script, as it was an unanticipated assault in a subway tunnel, but I did whomp the guy upside his head, and then chased him out of the station shrieking like a banshee. Jackass is lucky he could run faster than me because I was feeling pretty homicidal.

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OP, does the barn have security cameras? I wonder if these incidents were picked up on one. Something to ask the BO about and it may give you a little leverage if they try to minimize the situation.

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No it isn’t. It is going to establish a boundary that yes, should have been established long ago - but this is what predators do. They have an uncanny sixth sense for figuring out who they can prey upon, who won’t reject them no matter how much they want to, and how far they can push things. He’s been grooming her. It is BEYOND time to put an end to it.

OP, do not use an excuse on this guy. He will argue his way around it. No COVID. No germs. No excuses. A very clear “STOP IT” is necessary. “I am not shaking your hand. Leave me alone. Now.” Be angry when you say it. Make sure he knows you mean business. Don’t try to be nice, don’t try to spare his feelings, don’t leave any wiggle room for interpretation.

If he comes back with “I’m just being friendly,” or “what’s the problem,” don’t let him take you down that path, don’t explain yourself, and don’t engage with him. He will try to wheedle you back into his pattern. Do. Not. Engage. Don’t explain yourself. Don’t make excuses. As we are so fond of saying here, NO is a complete sentence.

Hopefully, it won’t come to that. Hopefully, your barn owner/manager will take care of the problem.

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You have gotten a lot of good advice here, but I have also been on the receiving end of the “you (client) are easier to replace than (groom) so I suggest you figure it out” and I want to prepare you for that possibility, which sounds like it is what is making you afraid to speak up. I get it.

Do not try to learn some kind of methods to fight the guy as a solution. If you want to learn in general, great, but you are better off not ending up in that situation.

Figure out some kind of plan B for your horse if things go sideways. Knowing you have options is critical. That “but what about my horse” in the back of your head is always going to make it really hard to say something.

Just straight up stop speaking to the dude whatsoever. Don’t go to the barn when you’ll be alone with him, and if he approaches you around other people, just say loudly enough that other people hear it “I don’t want to talk today.” If he keeps talking, stare at him until he goes away. If he comes toward you, you can repeat yourself once, and then if he keeps it up, you leave. The emotional energy of guiding him toward the understanding of his wrongdoing is not on you, it’s unlikely to be successful, and it’s a lot of invested energy in human resources for a business that you are a customer of, not a manager for.

Tell your trainer that you are uncomfortable being alone at the barn with ______ based on some recent interactions. Say you need to work out a schedule where you don’t interact with him. Your trainer will react one of two ways: either with concern and immediate effort to approach the situation based on your needs, or by pushing back on that boundary ("well what did you say to make him ____? no one else has an issue? but he’s scheduled when you usually ride, I can’t reschedule him…) - if that latter reaction happens, congrats, you found an enabler and nothing you say to them is going to fix their approach to the situation either. You now know that this is the environment you are working within and you can continue to hold that boundary and stay there, if you still feel the benefits of the program outweigh the harassment/enabling (and I am not judging. Been there.) - you didn’t say anything bad about the employee, you just stated your needs, and that option remains available to you.

I really wish that the things people say you should do when harassed actually worked, but in my experience they just put the work onto the victim and someone who starts that behavior isn’t going to suddenly see the light because someone thoughtfully explained their point of view. If someone doesn’t believe you the first time you say you were harassed, all the explanations in the world won’t change their initial impression, and that energy is just going to make you feel worse that you even made it easy for them to understand and they still don’t.

That employee isn’t your friend. Offend him. Ignore him. Your job here is not to keep the peace. If other people get uncomfortable by your new boundary you are setting for yourself, good. It should be inconvenient and uncomfortable for them to have someone around who harasses women as well.

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I get your rationale. But I think it’s the opposite of being assertive. Stating the truth of the matter is assertive.

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Because he hasn’t actually done anything? Unless things have changed in the 30+ years I have been married this is what I would remember as a guy being interested . The handshakes have lengthened, he holds on longer, making eye contact and when his progression isn’t opposed by her, he hugs her.

He didn’t grab or grope her ( thank goodness) BUT he can’t read her mind and has no idea she is not o.k.with any of this and not interested. Since she never said anything to discourage him , she doesn’t need to be unkind.

She just needs to make it clear she is not interested and that any physical contact is no longer acceptable.

How he reacts to that is anyone’s guess-- Just as it was when I was young.

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This is all FAR from ok. Things have changed very much.

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Okay but that’s still creepy or are you entirely missing that OP is in her early-to-mid-20s and this so-called man is old enough to be her father and clearly demonstrates a general disregard for boundaries by doing the lingering handshakes, etc. w/o consent? This wasn’t okay 30+ years ago, either, society just sucked at teaching boundaries and consent then.

Here’s a primer on consent for anyone who may need it: https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent

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I agree with you , because she didn’t feel comfortable with any of it—but she never ONCE TOLD HIM.

That is not o.k. either.

She didn’t say anything b/c she was intimidated by a much older person behaving in an unexpectedly creepy manner?

Were you never young once? Jeez.

EDIT: Assuming the creeper is middle-aged, 40-50 something and OP is, as stated a young adult (so, hypothetically most of us interpret that as somewhere between 18-25) yes there’s a considerable age difference, OP is still kind of at that age where you see people that age as having more power/authority whether they actually have more power/authority in practice or not. He is literally old enough to hypothetically be OP’s father. Yes, this is creepy behavior. Yes it was creepy 30+ years ago. No, it is not okay, yes, OP needs to know that she can tell this guy “no,” that “no” is a complete sentence and also report this to the barn owner/manager in case he behaves this way with others.

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I’m sure others can explain better than I can, but there is so much that goes into women not feeling comfortable setting boundaries. I agree she needs to say something, however, her NOT saying something doesn’t mean she’s interested either. End of story.

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Please, can we stop blaming the victim here? This young woman reached out for support, advice, and help. It really doesn’t matter what you think about whether she should have shaken his hand. ANYONE should be able to shake someone’s hand and not expect to be molested, assaulted, preyed upon, or in any way made to feel uncomfortable. The discomfort she’s feeling is warranted and appropriate and valid. The end.

There is an enormous difference between having a good relationship, even a warm relationship, with (in this case) barn staff, but this also applies for trainers, bosses, judges, coaches and really anyone else in a person’s life.

The man has crossed the line.

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This.

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Why, pray tell, are you evidently equally concerned about sparing effectively a dirty old man’s feelings? His feelings and how he acts on them are on him. OP can control her reaction and needs to do whatever it takes for her to feel safe and not preyed upon.

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