My favorite
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Hahaha, that’s great!
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As a teen, I was unimpressed by being told to smile by random men, after learning a smile is a sign of submissiveness in chimpanzees and some other primates.
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I got you should be smiling when boarding a plane yesterday from the woman who was at the desk at the gate. I won’t repeat what I said. Needless to say I was not having it.
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Awesome video. Thinking if there is a way to stick in the face of random men speaking patronizingly to a woman they don’t know.
There’s an ownership aspect to that stupid remark. As if the woman is falling short in their decorative duty. For him, since obviously smiling isn’t what she wants to do right now.
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Once. I just laughed at him and said no but I was 40ish, married, and worked with mostly men from a very young age. I gave the owners a heads up. They checked with their other clients (a lot of kids). He had been much more aggressive with the teenagers. He was fired immediately.
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There’s an older man I work with peripherally sometimes who calls me “hon” in every other sentence. He’s not part of the work unit I’m currently supervising—yes, I am a woman in a position of authority, though not over him. I was extremely stressed at work yesterday and almost blew an aneurysm the 10th time he did it. I know I should say something to him but also, I shouldn’t have to…
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As have done many topics here on Coth this one has had me thinking. I am not sure whether it is because I am old and times have changed since I was young but I have only had one uncomfortable experience in my life.
I was on an elevator in a hotel. The elevator was full of men checking in for some kind of convention. I felt a nudge on my behind. I assumed it was a briefcase and stepped forward as I turned around. It was a hand, not a briefcase. Without thinking I slapped the guy across the face sending his glasses flying. I stated that I felt sorry for him having to resort to this kind of behavior. Just then the doors opened and I stomped off so have no idea what the reaction was of the rest of the men.
I did report this to management and they were quite willing to investigate but it would have meant that I had to try to identify this person looking at god knows how many of the men checking in…
I think because I am not a touchy/feely person and my stand off personality (I wasn’t ugly) I have never experienced any other unwanted attention.
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Bully for you, but there is is such a slippery slope from this post to blaming the victim. Was half expecting it to end with What was she wearing?
PS young woman should not have to commit assault in order to avoid being groped.
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Exposure to incidents does rely on a number of social and interpersonal conditions, but most of them are out of the control of the victim. Often it seems looking younger, smaller, more polite, more afraid, will be a trigger for some men. We can hardly blame teens for being small or young. Other times it’s totally random. Also honestly sometimes women don’t even notice or register some minor attempts. I would say that the only factor guaranteed to increase such incidents is being out in public without another man to claim ownership of you. In other words living our modern life in malls, parking lots, jogging, walking dogs, etc
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Would you have felt better if she had let the SOB get away without repurcussions?
I’m all in favor of tales of retribution, in the hopes they provide inspiration.
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I haven’t experienced a ton of overt harassment in my life but there’s one thing that has always kind of struck me as a weird example of what feels like a type of sexism but not the kind anyone can point at and call “creepy.” Now - b/c this is COTH, and COTH is COTH and COTH’ers gonna COTH I’m going to put a disclaimer before this:
I don’t have a problem with basic politeness and good manners. But this specifically just…I wasn’t “uncomfortable” per se but it just always struck me as a bit of an over-the-top gesture the way this specific situation played out.
I’m in a coffee shop interviewing two local LEOs for a features-y type story about some programs they were introducing in their work. Both are men, the younger of the two was probably about 30 years older than myself, so age difference large enough that these two would both be fairly close to my parents’ age. Both are in uniform, if that matters…which I doubt it does entirely but I could see either of them really wanting to play up the manners and good behavior out in public and in uniform.
We wrap up the interview, they get up and start to head out, I get up, pack my stuff and also start to head out as I didn’t have any other work I needed to do and they’d talked longer than I’d expected.
There’s a door, a little entryway space, and a door that goes outside in this coffee shop. One man held one door, other man held the other door, really kind of making a…not really a SHOW of it but just like, I’m still fairly far back in the shop and they’re both just standing there holding these danged doors open. I thanked them, and y’know, it’s not a huge deal, I hold doors for people all the time, but they made such a point of it and it was the making such a point of it that made me think, “if I was a man, I really doubt they’d make such a gesture around holding the door for me.”
Ran into one of these two men quite a bit later at the same coffee shop, I’d just pulled in, he’s outside and waves me over to tell me about something he thought might be of interest for a story, we wrap up that quick convo and I’m heading in, laptop bag in one hand, sure, but other hand free. He’s all, “let me get that for you” re the door. I’m thinking to myself, “uhhhh, I can get my own door,” but, again, y’know it’s more or less just good manners, I’m not getting like complete creep vibes though I always did have that sense that any charm this guy had was mostly an act to suck up to people for many many reasons. I don’t and still wouldn’t raise a ruckus over something that minor, it isn’t at all bad behavior or anything and I don’t share that to put it on the level of outright harassment, but it just kinda strikes me as sexist in a less gross/insidious/visibly “bad” way, if that makes sense?
That’s called manners. Not a slight on your ability to do things.
ETA: To clarify I remember the first time my now OH picked me up. He opened my car door. I was uncomfortable because I wasn’t used to it and then smiled because it was refreshing to meet with actual manners.
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Good GOD I don’t get that anymore but when I worked at Walmart I would get it all the darn time.
Usually from men but I don’t think always though it’s been forever since I worked retail so I have no clue anymore. I think a few it wasn’t necessarily intended in a scummy way but still, uggggh. I always had half a mind to just do the craziest, toothiest smile I could muster, something that’d make me look like a maniac in a horror movie but I never did.
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I wasn’t uncomfortable again, and I didn’t have a problem it was more just they made SUCH a thing of it I was like, “uh…”
Again, I have manners and I know people who have manners without making a show of it. I’ll hold doors, e.g. for someone coming in after me if they’re close behind and I’m not unused to people holding doors for each other, etc. as it’s very much a common courtesy to just hold a door for someone.
This guy was leaving the building as I got there in the second scenario and had to turn around and walk back to the door to hold it specifically for me. Just, again, I don’t have a problem w/the behavior but it’s one of those, “I bet they don’t behave quite like this with other men,” things.
At the time I did chalk it up to manners though I still had that same, “this is a bit over-the-top” thought to myself then, and again, I was polite (I was raised in part by a Grandma who was born pre-1920 in Kentucky…so, y’know I know a lil’ about old-school manners 
) but still it just kinda struck me as making way too big of a POINT about it.
I don’t have a problem with someone being a gentleman and holding the door but I’d hope they’re egalitarian about it.
EDIT: The one guy in the second scenario who had to turn around to hold the door was also very openly a super-conservative, hardcore evangelical Christian type guy.
EDIT 2: Again - I’m not really complaining as much as kind of observing that, had I been a man I somehow doubt such a point would’ve been made about holding a door. Maybe it would’ve been but…I just, having dealt with the actual people in the scenario and knowing them somewhat b/c they were in roles where they’d have to go to almost all the same county gov. meetings I’d cover, I knew both decently well and…
In my world and peers, that jump to attention male door holding never took hold, and it feels bizarre to me. However I have travelled a good deal and lived among other cultures and mostly can tell when something is a courtesy in another culture like Hong Kong Chinese store clerks handing you the receipt with both hands.
For me, even if those police officers are my age or younger even, I myself would experience them as a distinctly different culture. And I’d recognize that there’s wierdly formal things they might do that are meant to be courteous. Of course it’s sexist. If course they wouldn’t do it to a man. Of course it’s bizarre to have to navigate it when your other life doesn’t include it. Of course it could be a power play too. And of course they are steeped in patriarchal culture.
But if it’s not hostile and doesn’t stop you doing your job, I’d just accept it as one more cultural difference the same as if you found yourself on the other side of the world.
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I mean and I wasn’t complaining, nor would I, it just strikes me as one of those “yup, sexist” without being the overt and inherently damaging kind, y’know? Just another example of something that’s pretty likely sexist but not something anyone CAN actually complain about. (Also everyone in this scenario is a white American from a Midwestern state so similar backgrounds, age and religiousness aside.)
EDIT: I shared as kind of “there’s harmful and predatory but there’s also this less-insidious, not-exactly-blatant but still sexist kinda stuff that happens.” And my intent wasn’t to diminish anything.
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This is going quite a bit off topic, but then, when don’t we? Anyway, my husband holds doors for me. The reason he does it is because I am pretty disabled, and a lot of times, the doors win when I open them for myself. So it’s very sweet that he does it. Why I bring it up: he walks way, way faster than I do, and doesn’t adjust his pace to mine because it bothers him to walk slowly. So usually I am halfway across a parking lot, and he’s standing there holding the door, and standing there, and standing there. He is very polite to other people coming through while he’s waiting, makes it clear he’s holding the door for them as well, and his heart is definitely in the right place. But it drives me nuts, because then I rush, which is a bad thing given my disabilities.
OK, back to the real topic.
Rebecca
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Thanks for explaining your thought process. I never contemplated the sexist background before. It is interesting.
For me personally when men do that, using my OH as an example, it means I know I can take them out and not be embarrassed.
It’s one of those things that I appreciate and use to evaluate how someone was raised. It’s funny because we both back off no matter how frustrating, and let the other one do their thing on occasion.
For example, I had a tail light out. We go get a bulb and he’s gotta do it. I let him. It makes him happy to do it despite knowing I am perfectly capable of doing it. On the flip side if I’m carrying something extremely heavy he lets me do it and waits for me to ask for his help. I’m sure it grates on him like it does me with the tail light, but he lets it happen because it makes me happy.
Yeah we all kind of went on tangents. And like, your situation, yeah, not as odd and absolutely understandable.
And the “smile” thing, weirdly I don’t think I’ve heard that once since leaving retail, but when I worked retail I heard it all the time. Usually in a “smile, it can’t be that bad,” like, dude I am working at Walmart during the holiday season, this is NOT a picnic of a job.
Back on track, I’m just going to say I’m glad OP seems to be resolving this! Shame anyone ever has to experience it.
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