Cultural differences make it hard sometimes to figure out the exact share of crazy or inappropriate behaviour you are dealing with.
However, as a broad rule in most of the cultures that might rank as more macho or more oppressive to women, it’s actually more taboo to casually touch a woman he has no right to like he’s doing. And also there is usually more social heirarchy such that barn help is not meant to ever interact with clients. So he’s pushing the envelope to see what a (I assume) American young woman will tolerate. He likely can’t read you either if you haven’t run screaming yet.
Also there is absolutely no reason to tolerate invasive or sexual behaviour just because there might be a cultural difference. Your safety and autonomy trumps everything. And make no mistake, this is sexualized behavior and it likely will lead up to an attempted assault of some kind, either fumbling and embarassing or truly frightening. After which you will leave the barn forever in a cloud of shame and anxiety and quit riding until you are 52.
End it now. If what you say makes him avoid you forever then bonus.
OK, I’m sure I’m old enough to be your grandmother so here’s some grandmotherly advice:
Do not be alone at the barn with this guy. Bring a friend (horsey or non horsey, male or female) with you if at all possible. Doesn’t matter if they sit on the sidelines and look at their phone, do not be alone!
Google his name, just to see if he’s got a record.
Abusers/assaulters can be very clever - they will be charming to everyone they are not interested in pursuing so that if you say something, no one will believe you. Read the Safe Sport thread on the hunter/jumper forum for examples of how trainers got away with their crimes for years doing this exact thing.
I know you are hesitant to talk to your BO but please reconsider. You don’t sound like a crazy person so I think chances are good that they will take you seriously.
Consider changing barns.
Please, please take someone with you at the very least. I am concerned for your safety.
Not trying to make you paranoid, just channeling what I wish someone had told me when I was sexually assaulted as a teen. That was back in the bad old days when people had no framework for this kind of thing and always assumed it was the woman’s fault.
Oftentimes when good advice that I agree with is given, I don’t chime in. I will here.
You are not overreacting. Talk to the BO. And the next time you are approached, stand tall and tell this guy to not touch you. Always trust your gut.
Long story short, I had a neighbor that took too keen an interest in me and I wish I would have started a paper trail sooner. Nothing awful happened thank goodness, but the police got involved and there was a super serious creep factor. I lived with a Louisville Slugger next to the door until I moved out.
Self defense is always good to learn too. I took up Muay Thai for two years after my ex husband moved out and absolutely ended up loving it.
I do this too. I try to be polite and/or laugh or shrug things off and it has led to harassment situations for me that I maybe could have prevented. That said, it’s not my fault, nor is it yours. It’s theirs.
I think a perfectly acceptable first step is to be firm in articulating your boundaries directly with him. If he backs off, good. That said, you should always feel comfortable going to his bosses - if he doesn’t back off or if you’re uncomfortable asking him to desist directly.
In my last job, I was repeatedly sexually harassed by a coworker, and I didn’t say anything until it was pretty much too late (mass layoff for all of us) because I was 1) proud of my ability as a woman to “play with the boys” and handle unwanted advances, and 2) worried that I was somehow misunderstanding a cultural divide (he was from another country on another continent). I also like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Then I found out he had done the same to women on our staff. It was one thing for me to be “tough” or “unflappable” as his equal… it’s a whole different thing to have him victimize a subordinate. I honestly wish I had confronted him directly - as he could have changed his behavior if it was innocent, and if not, I could have escalated it before he victimized others.
Moving forward, I plan to be more direct when someone makes me uncomfortable. And if I feel unable, I will go to management (or the equivalent).
What everybody else said x1000. This person DOES. NOT. have the right to touch you. AT. ALL. Period.
If you see him headed for you, then go get back in your car and lock the door. Or go into a stall or anywhere away from him. You cannot worry about whether you offend this person. You need to worry about you. And getting away from him is not running away - it’s you being safe.
Think of us all standing behind you going “you can do it!” Because we are.
If you feel uncomfortable about talking to the BO about this, talk to one of the older women at the barn and ask her to go with you. I suspect you will find you have a whole lot of momma bears in your corner.
You are completely right to feel uncomfortable.
This older man, whatever his cultural background, knows he is behaving in an inappropriate manner. Someone needs to stop him in his tracks.
You have a problem. In my life experience you have an escalating problem that is compromising your safety. Because he is grooming. He is following a pattern. He is pushing the boundaries further and further, precisely to see how far he can go … and eventually he will go all the way. As it were.
Soon, actually, given the rate of his escalation. Do not be alone with him under any circumstances. He is giving every red-flag warning sign of a full-on predator. Take your own feelings very, very seriously. IMO your feelings are spot on.
You are not strange, weird or over-reacting. You need to take action on this immediately. You are posting in the evening, so therefore tomorrow morning. No ‘non-confrontational’ excuses as there is too much at stake – for you.
I would like to say ‘I’m not trying to scare you’ but in fact I am, as I think that realistically you have something to be scared of and possibly a limited time to protect yourself before he goes the next step. And the next.
You need to let the barn manager know in writing as well as verbally –
Everything. Describe his behavior and the pattern of escalation. You could copy/paste what you’ve posted here.
Use the word “escalation”, because that is what you are describing. Make “escalating behavior” central to your point. That emphasizes the urgency of this situation.
Use words such as “safety, crossing boundaries, harassment, unacceptable”, etc. Tell her just how it is making you feel – that is so important.
Tell and write to the BM that when you are in the barn, BM must monitor his behavior and keep him away from you. So long as he is employed there put that responsibility on the BM.
Tell and write to the BM that you are not able to be in the barn if he is there and no one else is there. Possibly any time that BM is not there. And that this is a curtailment on your barn activity that will mean that if he stays, you will need to leave. (For your safety. Sad but true.)
Tell and write to the BM that if there should be any sufficiently untoward physical incidents in the future you will be reporting him to the police. (Depending on the BM’s response, it might be worth an information-only call to the police to ask what behavior is considered something they would take a report on and possibly act on.)
At the minimum, the BM needs to draw the line and let him know that his continued employment depends on his never, ever crossing the line. But really he needs to be fired immediately. He’s not trustworthy – even if he promises to stop, he is still a risk to you and others.
The BM needs to know that she has a potential explosion in the barn, one that might potentially have liability attached. Regardless of legal liability, anyone can sue, and that’s an exposure to the BM.
Very likely he has done this before. He may be subjecting others to the same treatment, just not in your sight. After talking to BM it is worth asking around to see if anyone else is experiencing something similar from him.
Also, I’m not an expert on breaking up an unwanted hug, but be confrontational. Abruptly push your arms up and out to knock his arms away and say loudly and firmly “let’s keep our distance” or “please keep your distance”. You don’t have to make it look polite when this behavior is so far over the line. Practice at home a few times (without another person is fine) so that it will come more easily to you in the moment.
If he’s too close, if he’s acting inappropriately, say “I need you to keep your distance” or “please keep your distance”. Speak clearly and LOUDLY. He may back off from embarrassment. If he doesn’t, you definitely want to attract witnesses.
Maybe this is a life step in learning to protect yourself by being confrontational when it is important to do so.
Raise attention to this while it is happening through your voice and actions. People won’t think you are being rude. They will understand and respect what you are doing.
Also, do not keep this a secret in the barn! Silence protects him and puts others at risk. Also others can help by staying close to you when he’s around. You can even ask them to help you that way. Not in a hush-hush way, in an open way.
There is no shame to you that this is happening, no reason to be embarrassed about it, even if that is a natural but unwarranted reaction.
Let others know this is happening! Ask them if they have noticed this or experienced it. This cultural veil of silence and secrecy around sexual harassment (if that is what this is ) is mystifying because it shames the victim and protects the predators.
People who have seen enough of my posts on the topic of sexual harassment in the workplace (and elsewhere) know that I’ve seen real life experiences over my corporate career, seen the consequences to the victims (who don’t like to think they are victims and I don’t blame them for that), and have had to step in officially and unofficially. The fallout to the women is often more serious than people like to think. It really has to be acted on to protect the women. I am a warrior on this - it has to be that way, I’ve learned.
Women’s lives change for the worse if it isn’t handled with all the force necessary.
I have zero empathy for the predators because they do this again and again, it is a pattern they follow for years, sometimes a lifetime. They have zero empathy for the feelings of the women they prey on and zero empathy for the life consequences that tend to pile up on the woman, not on them.
This guy does not care about you. You are an object to him. He cares about his own gratification. That’s what this is about, to him.
He is either stupidly innocent in today’s world or he is grooming you as has already been stated.
I agree to Google him if you know his last name.
States and even individual counties have sex offender lists that even the most minor offense gets a person forever on those lists. Google your states sex offender list. They often post photos if you don’t know his last name.
If, God forbid, he is grooming you, being too forceful when telling him to leave you alone could trigger some unhealthy anger in him - how forceful to tell him no is a fine line and a scary line… My hope is the BO will listen to you, regardless of being short of help or not.
FWIW, Our closest neighbor is the house who once owned all of our property - it is 12’ from the fence and was a rental for several years. Unbeknownst to me, new renters moved in who were a very nice married couple and the man’s mother.
I am also old enough to be your grandmother so was quickly able to recognize something about the guy wasn’t right - gut instinct really does go a long way.
When the day came that I saw him braced up against the side door in nothing but a bath towel when I was mowing our barnyard, was the day I called my other neighbor, a deputy sheriff, and informed my husband either he mowed the barnyard or it wasn’t getting mowed.
My sheriff neighbor ended up arresting the man on a “naked in public “ technicality. Come to find out he already had two minor sex offense convictions - the second being while he was already in jail for the first one. The mother had moved in with them in the hopes of keeping her son under control but that was to no avail.
These sorts of things DO escalate as has already been alluded to, so please PLEASE get an adult to listen to you:)
Also, please keep updating this thread so everyone who,is offering advice knows your ok:)
I agree with a lot if this post in general except for two things - don’t go into a stall or anywhere else where you may be cornered, and don’t make a habit of running away from him unless absolutely necessary - he’s likely to get worse if he thinks that you’re intimidated.
There are a lot of handsy jerks in the world who wouldn’t go as far as outright assault, but always assume you’re dealing with one who might. Be loud, be assertive to the point of making a public scene, if necessary, and practice situational awareness.
I hate that you’re experiencing this but unfortunately it’s common. Channel your inner boss mare and teach this guy a lesson on boundaries.
That’s it! Take that spirit with you to the barn and stick up for yourself. Tell the barn manager. Tell your trainer. And tell that creep no touchy. Young women are very vulnerable in our society and most likely to be tested when they’re on the verge of being on their own. Be safe! We’ve got your back.
Back on here to say, yes, OP, please keep us posted and we’re rooting for you. You’ve got this, you can stick up for yourself, you can establish boundaries.
or better. go review safe sport training ( it is free) and learn how certain people prey on the weaker. They groom and people around them have no idea.
you sound as if you are a somewhat meek and unconfrontational person. You need knowledge to boost you up.
you are not alone. I bet you many of the women here went through this. Excuses about “another culture” does not fly, most people from other cultures quickly learn to adopt the new culture and keep their native culture with their close community and family
If need be, find an ally at the barn, particularly an older woman who has been there done that, and talk to the management of the barn.
Best to speak to Barn Manager or owner, or both before you are in the situation to protect yourself from this guy’s unwanted attention.
It will be easier for you to explain when you’re not in the heat of the moment, and better understood when any action you need to take is not “out of the blue” (to the management).
Something similar to the OPs situation happened at my barn a couple years ago when 2 new workers started. I felt very uncomfortable by both, but 1 man especially. I confided in another boarder and she said “he’s just being friendly” since he’s new. Well, within a couple weeks several ladies felt the same way and one of them (17 yr old) told her trainer. The BO talked to both men and things have been fine ever since. OP : TRUST YOUR GUT!!!
