Been through a lot with my horse, but wondering if it’s time to part ways. WWYD?

So if this mare gets out, gets pushed into the wrong pasture by new pasture-mates say, and has to be rounded up and caught, or gets caught in a fence, or needs an emergency trailer ride for an injury, or someone leaves a gate open, or some emergency requires that someone has to move her quickly, is that handler safe? I worked at an equine clinic once and we had a car crash through the resident stud’s fence. He was notoriously difficult to handle and we weren’t allowed to handle him (vet’s gf’s horse) and was running around like crazy as were all the other horses but there was a massive hole in the fence along the road so Someone had to catch him. I ended up being that Someone since I was the most horse savvy there at the time but it could have been a much bigger mess than it was.

Just things to think about, the world isn’t always going to conform to keep a horse happy and comfortable.

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@dogsbody1 would you mind sending me the videos as well?

I am really sorry your first horse has such a rough experience!

I own one horse who is sassy and challenging (although consistent and never tries to get me off) but enjoy riding/training so much that whenever an opportunity presents to work with another horse I jump at it. All those horses have been green with anxiety issues and some with work ethic issues, and the outcome has been different for each one. Everything is so case dependent but here are a few of my experiences.

One of these if it had been my horse, I would have put him down. He threw me right after mounting for unknown reasons so with support from my instructor, I re-started him completely. His ground manners and ground work were beautiful after many months of work and transitioned into riding. He never did this on the ground, but he would blindly panic for reasons that only made sense to him, like nobody was home and he acted like I was a cougar that had just jumped on him. Over many months of riding with ground work first, he blindly panicked three times when I was on him but able to circle sharply to get his brain back and not come off (still really scary, do not want to ride a blind panic again!), however he bronced me off off right after mounting two more times. I called it quits at that point. He was looked at by vets, nothing presented as a problem. All ground work and manners remained lovely but he was not safe to ride.

Another horse had thrown someone and broken their arm. I restarted him as well to help him learn how to deal with his anxiety safely. He turned into a lovely riding horse as long as the rider was confident and quiet and listened to him when he was having a bad day. However because I made him look so easy, a beginner began riding him and it went downhill. Nothing wrong with the rider I mean we were all beginners once, but the horse couldn’t deal with it and I refused to have all my work thrown down the toilet so I stepped away. Once a nice, quiet intermediate started being the only rider, he became lovely again.

Recently did some ground work with another horse that didn’t want to do what I asked, squealed and reared straight up as high as he could go. Hard no from me as that was obviously a practiced habit to get out of work… Again glad that wasn’t my horse because I would be faced with the hard choice of retirement or euth as that is not a problem I would be willing to pass onto anyone else…

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Ok, yes, I’d be happy to share the videos. It sounds like you have a really broad range of experience to draw from, so I would appreciate your insight. I will say the “blind panic” part does strike a chord. It’s not always that way. Mostly she just goes up very quietly and calmly to protest going forward. But I have had moments with her where it feels like she goes from 0 to 60. As long as she stays relatively straight and keeps moving forward, it’s enough to just pick up on the reins, lean back, and wait it out, because it’s pretty self limiting, and in a few seconds or strides she gets it back together. But if she drops a shoulder to duck out, or if she really catches me off guard with a stop and rear, I do come off. I will say I think a stronger rider would be able to sit it out. I don’t consider myself a very strong rider; it doesn’t take a lot of funny business for me to end up the neck and rolling to the dirt. One thing, however, about her more backwards evasions—as opposed to forward ones, like bolting and bucking—is that the falls tend to be low-speed, low impact, usually from a halt. And as a result, they aren’t as hard as falls I’ve from other horses. Plenty of times I just land on my feet, or I collapse on her shoulder and gently tumble to the ground. I find that I’m more nervous about the idea of a horse bolting and explosively bucking, than the idea of a horse like her balking and rearing me off the back. I know absolutely no one on this forum would agree with me on that front. But idk how many people on this forum have been reared with as many times as I have.

In your shoes, I would spring for a full workup including neck and spine imaging. Then at least you will have a clearer idea what you are dealing with. If something shows up, you’ve got something to base a plan on. If nothing shows up, then there’s something mental going on which may affect how you handle the situation ongoing.

I still wouldn’t be getting on this horse and I wouldn’t pass her on to anyone else either, ever.

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Please, please, please do not get back on your horse. A rearing horse is a dangerous horse. Like life ending dangerous. Its nothing to mess with. Do not minimize rearing.

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I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I was in a similar situation last year-- new-ish to horse ownership with a dangerous horse. I had a thread about it here: Help with medical causes for bucking/bolting/anxiety . The vet hospital’s conclusion was EDM (a neurological disease that is not well understood.)

My gelding was dangerous under saddle and iffy on the ground, and went through multiple trainers. He exhibited the blind panic that others have mentioned. Like with your mare, there were circumstances where things were better and where they were worse. One of the trainers I sent him to-- the one who had the most hope for him, initially-- was always looking for positives. “Well, when we ride outside, as long as there’s no traffic and it’s not windy, he’s not too bad…”. But “not too bad” under very restricted conditions isn’t the same as “safe”.

When I posted here, I had a mix of suggestions for medical investigation and recommendations to euthanize. Like you, I didn’t want to make a euthanasia decision based on what a bunch of “internet strangers” were saying, even if there were a lot of them saying it, but reading over the responses helped me approach the conversation with my instructor and vets.

Ultimately, these were the questions I asked:

(1) Does there exist a person who could safely handle this horse, and is that hypothetical person likely to want this horse? Even if there is someone with the skillset and barn setup for this kind of horse, they probably don’t want to put up with this behavior unless she’s spectacularly talented in some way.

(2) If you send her to a retirement barn or rescue, can you trust that the people there will be safe around him? Given that the experienced barn staff at my barn were nervous around my guy, I thought that the answer was no. There are a lot of inexperienced people out there who think that they will be the ones to fix a horse, and I didn’t want it on my conscience if he hurt someone.

(3) I outright asked my vet whether they would support me in euthanasia. She hadn’t brought it up before, and neither had my instructor or the trainers I had sent him to; but when I asked about it, it turned out that they were supportive. Some people, I think, are reluctant to bring up the idea of euthanasia for behavioral reasons.

Even after all that, I needed the complete vet workup (orthopedic, ophthalmologic, and neurologic) before I could make the decision. He displayed no instability or gait irregularities or other signs or a neurologic disorder, but ultimately, that’s what the vet hospital’s conclusion was. (He had a bad episode while there, which helped.) I don’t think that I could have been at peace with the decision without the complete vet exam.

This next bit is probably not helpful, but I’m including it just in case it is. In processing my emotions about this, both during and after the decision, I was angry and sad about the entire situation. I still am. It wasn’t just the grief of losing my friend, but it was the sense that all of this had been a waste: a waste of my health and a waste of his life. Normally in a bad situation, I can find some silver lining, but here there was nothing. I mourn for him every day-- he injured me, and I’m still recovering; but it was the one single life he had, and now it’s gone, and for what? No matter how I tried, I couldn’t find any meaning in it.

Then, after many months, I realized that maybe he didn’t come into my life for my sake, but I came into his life so that I could help him. I could have sold him, and I think that a lot of people would have. But I’m certain that I made the right decision for him. That was the gift I could give him. It wasn’t how I had imagined our time together, but it was what he needed.

Good luck.

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Sending a supportive hug. You gave your horse peace and that is a huge gift. You did the right thing.

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Last year a lady at my barn had her horse rear and fall over on her, western saddle so she had a saddle horn to worry about too. She’s 80, so it was a miracle she wasn’t killed and that she can still walk. However, she spent 3 months in the hospital and is still “recovering”.

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That was profoundly said.

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Your femoral artery runs down your leg via your groin and you can bleed out very quickly if there is an injury to it. Over the years there have been riders in my area who had horses go up and fall over on them and stroke out due to damage to the femoral artery. 2 of these riders knew their horse was prone to rearing.

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Yep. And if you break your pelvis the bones can slice it open from the inside as well. Like I said, she’s lucky to be alive.

And her horse didn’t have a history of rearing. She literally kicked and yanked him into going up and then she pulled him over once he got up there.

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Why? What was her intent with the kicking and yanking?

When I was 15 years old, I had a horse go up and over on me. I was a teenager and thought I was invincible. Horse was very balky and his go to evasion, was to get light in the front end. Friend was having trouble and asked me to hop on, so I did. Bareback. He pulled his usual refusing to go
Forward and then lightning fast He went straight up and over and landed on my femur. Broke it in half. That is why I said I would not ride this horse. That horse was not mine. The owners continued to ride afterwards, but would just get off when he became balky.

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Scary!

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She’s older, didn’t ride regularly, and he was a sensitive horse in a curb. He balked, likely because of something she inadvertently did, and then she was “correcting” him by kicking him forward and then yanking him back at the same time.

I’d ridden the horse before, he didn’t take a lot on the reins.

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Poor horse had no where to go. Glad your barn mate is OK.

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Me to please

That’s because there are combined CENTURIES of horse experience on this board, and many people have seen awful, sometimes fatal injuries to riders caused by a horse rearing. There is a reason so many people are telling you the same thing. That you haven’t been seriously injured after being reared with this many times is very lucky, but that luck will run out. I think people giving you advice to haul in to a clinic able to do a very, very comprehensive exam and then discuss a potential behavioral euthanasia are correct. I have been involved in a behavioral euthanasia before. I didn’t mind if the horse hurt me (which was stupid of me) but I couldn’t live with myself if he injured someone else. And he wasn’t as bad as this (multiple professionals/service providers being unwilling to work with, like your horse). I have my own farm, the horse could have lived out his days here, but I couldn’t trust him with a farrier/vet/farmsitter.

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I was at a Buck Brannaman clinic once where one of the riders brought a horse with a history of rearing. The horse got light in front at the clinic which was by no means a lot of pressure, some hind end moves, side passing type stuff, and Buck being Buck and not one to mince words addressed the entire clinic and audience and said he would not have or deal with a horse that reared. Buck Brannaman, renowned trainer and former bronc rider.

OP If you’ve become desensitized to this horse rearing on you things are not heading in the right direction!

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Fortunately, I don’t have personal experience with a horse like this. I’m so sorry this was your introduction to horse ownership, versus a kindly, older horse, or even a greener but honest and easy to please horse.

Awhile back, there was a rider with a similar story, only with a gelding. I don’t remember if the horse reared, but she had been convinced by her trainer to buy a dead cheap warmblood who wasn’t that old (or young), but it quickly became clear that the horse was unmanageable by both the rider and her trainer, and a bunch of other pros who tried him.

She eventually moved the horse to a low-key barn and she felt the horse had made progress because he would allow her to basically piddle around on a long rein at the walk and trot and let her handle him without going crazy. But when she brought in a pro, she was upset the horse’s issues would come right back. She was considering moving him back to a training barn but was afraid of losing progress. COTH consensus was that…the horse was “mysteriously” so much better with her and only her in the backyard barn because she was basically putting no pressure on him.

In other words, that’s the essence of Black Stallion Syndrome–“only I can ride my horse, my horse behaves best for me,” and then when you scratch the surface this means, “I only do the absolute minimum with this horse to not stress him out.” I hate to say it, but it’s like an abusive boyfriend who is “so sweet” if his girlfriend arranges her entire life around his needs.

You’ve gotten good advice from the rest of this board–there are so many good horses out there who are worthy of your love and attention who won’t put you at risk.

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