Chalk this up to the experience of seeing some really bad situations go way worse and learning from it.
We can’t save all the horses.
If we save that one, we can’t save this one.
If we put all resources in one, another one who has less baggage doesn’t get those resources.
It sounds cold, but it’s reality.
A trainer hurt dealing with your horse, can’t help other horses.
.
For what it’s worth: I, too, think that euthanizing this horse is the right call. I have not seen the videos; I base that on the fact that multiple pros have declined to work with her and the opinions of the posters here I respect who have seen the videos.
With that said, gently, with full understanding of these feelings:
… I do believe the OP is real, and I do understand why this thread is still going: OP is struggling to re-align her entire worldview, and we’re watching that unfold in real time. I think it’s perfectly fair for posters to bow out when they’ve had enough, because this isn’t a fun activity for anyone, but I would encourage the good, caring folks here to give OP the time and space to process in this thread without turning on her.
When I euthanized my neuro mare, I did so because she had an increasingly poor quality of life and was becoming increasingly unsafe to handle on the ground. (I was doing the daily care and any professionals working with her were aware of the situation.) I didn’t ask COTH for help because I had a large quantity of excellent and trusted professionals around me with whom I could discuss as well as other sources of emotional and decisional support. That said, if I hadn’t been in that fortunate position, I might well have posted, and if I had posted when I was at the “just hurt me, will never be ridden again” stage instead of the “has been retired for a bit, clinical picture worsening even as a pasture ornament” stage, the external processing might have borne some resemblance to what OP is doing here.
While my mare was ultimately not a behavioral euth, I did euthanize her for her behavior, because of what it signaled. At the time I sat down in a stall at New Bolton with her and stroked her face and whispered to her while she went, I had no certainty that there would actually be a confirmed EDM diagnosis.
In the end, there was a confirmed diagnosis. I was as happy about that as I could be, under the circumstances. But I knew that there was a chance there wouldn’t be, and I made my peace with that possibility before I did it, because if there hadn’t been it still would have been the right choice.
It took me a while to get there, though.
P.S.: No one brought up euth to me, either, until I described the behaviors and asked them for their opinion specifically noting that–while I would do anything I could for this mare–euth was on the table if there was nothing else to do. When I did, every single one of my multiple vets were not just supportive but agreed that it was absolutely the right choice, and none of the other pros I asked were unsupportive.
And an injured trainer does not get sick time. There is another active thread involving a boarder angry because trainer was put in the ICU by a horse accident and his horse was not getting ridden. Most barn help that can’t physically work, including trainers, dont get paid anything, many have to be let go and replaced.
Horse owners must also remember if they know the horse can be dangerous, they are liable for anybody that horse hurts. Those limits of liability signs or written releases do NOT include negligence and any owner who is aware the horse can hurt somebody, can be found negligent.
Its just like with a bad dog, owner is responsible.
I think OP is handling this discussion really well. This is a lot for her to process and wasn’t one of the WWYD choices she had on her short list. I think everyone wants to feel like they have been heard when they give their opinion and thoughts and for some maybe they don’t “feel” it but I do think OP is listening and thinking.
Agree. while it’s very hard to say, it’s even harder to hear and I am sure the OP hears it.
Horses will break your heart.
Yes. This is different retirement board than the ones that cater to usually elderly horses who often have special needs and get daily handling. I know someone who took the “giant pasture” approach with her dangerous horse. He’s been out in a herd (several herds actually) on something like 500 acres for over a decade. I don’t know what they do with him for the infrequent barefoot trims or vet visit, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the place has stocks or a squeeze chute. By all reports the horse has thrived, but I know others whose horses did not thrive and had to be taken back or euthed.
I think thr bar for euthanasia has come down in recent years, just due to the cost of keeping horses. I know people who were excoriarted in the late 'Oughts for choosing euthanasia over lengthy stall rest with a likely pasture sound outcome. Horses would have had to be heavily sedated to have a chance of dealing with stall rest. These days I don’t think as many people would criticize someone for choosing euthanasia in that situation.
Please, OP, take this into serious consideration before you turn the horse over to someone else. If she hurts someone, how will you feel?
And please please please while you are deciding do not get on this horse. Instead go and take lessons on another horse and have fun.
I think part of the reason for this is the nature of a semi-anonymous internet forum. I feel like there’s still a weird stigma against euthanasia by many people, and that makes others less likely to bring it up in real life.
I have a friend who ultimately euthanized a horse he owned. This was about 15 years ago. We had taken his two horses to an event, and in the truck on the way home he asked for my opinion on euthanizing one. This horse outwardly appeared healthy and rideable, but had a physical issue which at other times caused her pain and distress and was likely to continue and get worse and worse over time. He asked my opinion because he was afraid that our other friends would judge him for putting down his horse. (I didn’t think they would, and they didn’t. But that sort of perception is what often keeps people from even bringing up the subject.)
I agree, this is not easy and the OP has been very thoughtful, and I’m honestly impressed with how they are considering all aspects, especially being relatively new to the horse world.
I think OP has accepted that this horse is not safe for them to ride, which is a good step. To offer another analogy, a horse like this is like a car that has brakes that just fail at random moments. Like if you’re going down an x% grade in the wrong humidity, and a red car passes, you might die. And the mechanics you have access to say they can’t fix it. But of course a horse is a live being and we can’t just park them in the garage when they aren’t running properly.
To out myself, I had a very nicely bred WB mare who could buck like an NFR bronc. OP, I DID send her away to the best trainer I could find in a 4-hour radius, for almost 1.5 years. She progressed, and then regressed. I brought her home, spent another 5K on veterinary treatments and diagnostics, and could still not do something simple like walk up to her holding a saddle, without seeing the whites of her eyes (this was not from the trainer - I visited there monthly and before the regression, she was OK for tacking). I never got on that horse again, and I’ve been riding 30+ years since childhood, started multiple horses from scratch etc. Due to her bloodlines, I was able to trade her for another 2 year old. I found out later that this mare’s dam had bucked off a bunch of pros at Spruce Meadows, so there was a genetic component, and perhaps euth would have been the better choice. I did provide complete disclosure to the woman who took her, so I do sleep at night, but knowing what I know now, I’m not sure if I would have done the same.
Just wanted to highlight this because I think it’s really telling about why COTH seems to have a lower bar for euth than the “real world.” A lot of people, vets included, are hesitant to bring it up even if they think it would be the right call.
Also, I’m sorry about your mare, @RooTheDay. So heartbreaking.
Concur. I’d also add that IME vets are also supportive when the owners bring it up. My vet team has been incredibly empathetic and supportive in each of the end of life services they have provided me.
On vets recommending euthanasia….it has been my experience that they do not recommend it, even when obviously warranted, but will support the owner’s decision.
Different vets, but:
38 year old blind toothless underweight geriatric horse. I had to recommend to the owners (I’m a BO) when he started running into fences more frequently and was increasingly dangerous to lead due to wobbliness. Vet never said a word to the owners.
Severe DSLD in a 20 year old mare. Mare starting to lay down more, walking very painfully even on equioxx. Vet said “oh, she could go a few more years” when owner asked what she would recommend. Owner finally realized that it was no life for a horse.
30 year old Appaloosa with severe melanomas, went blind, but couldn’t be in the isolation paddock due to fear. Owner could no longer afford her. I talked her through the process, vets agreed.
Canine with severe mammary cancer. Old for her breed (12 year old Doberman), unable to walk and fearful urinating. Vet wanted me to have surgery because it could give her another 6 months.
Those are clear and obvious cases where euthanasia was almost imperative, and yet the vets didn’t even suggest it.
OP is handling all of this very well, and I’m not saying that euth is the only answer here, I haven’t watched the videos, but this is for anyone who is waiting for the vet to say “it’s time”. They typically don’t. You have to be the responsible one here, and though it is hard, we owe it to our horses to be capable of making that decision when it is the rational one, even though it sucks emotionally.
Just WOW, that’s crazy.
Yep. I said no because even if the cancer had not metastasized (which I wasn’t clear on, given her inability to walk) healing would take months, pain that my pup wouldn’t have understood, for what, another 3 months of life? Bella deserved (and got) better, a peaceful and more dignified end.
That whole situation was interesting. She was lumpy but the vets thought they were just lipomas. When the mammary tumor showed up, it breached the skin surface almost overnight and she went downhill quickly. Very aggressive. Even had we caught it early I am not sure that treatment would have given her more than an extra 6 months, and that would have been chemo, which makes humans miserable I can’t even imagine it in an older dog.
We have many amazing innovations in veterinary medicine and sometimes they are warranted…and sometimes not. Had she been 3 years old, maybe we would have been more aggressive with treatment…but 12 when that’s above the average lifespan (and gets your dog in the longevity registry)…no.
If I might add just a bit to this excellent post:
For the vets, I have to say, that the vets may be thinking these thoughts, that it’s time. But because vets are people who run a business, the decision really must come from the owner. Owners may have second thoughts or may be affected by the people who will invariably come out of the woodwork. What vet wants this spread all over social media -
“Vet X told me to kill my beloved (insert animal’s name here)!! Why, oh why did I listen??? I MISS (name of animal) SO MUCH!! THAT VOODOO WITCH DOCTOR SAID SHE COULD HAVE CURED HIM!!!” Boo-Hoo, Boo-Hoo, Boo-Hoo.
That’s when a FB pile on would actually happen, and not in the vet’s favor. The vet’s whole practice could be affected, and they wouldn’t deserve it.
This I think is a huge factor. I certainly don’t blame the veterinarians. I think another component is that they are highly trained to treat and save lives. So their orientation is on fixing things, primarily.
When I suggested to the owners that they euth (in roundabout ways) I seriously worried about that too. At the same time, I saw those horses every day, and worried constantly about their care and their well-being.
Many people have this wonderful vision of a horse quietly laying down and falling asleep, and that never happens naturally. Natural death is ugly.
I don’t think we deal well in our culture with death. I wish we were all more well trained in it, as it’s just as normal as birth (which also often requires intervention!)
I had an old cowboy type as my vet (but he could be surprising–he was also one of the vets at the local racetrack, mostly throughbreds with a few quarter horse and Arabian races). He was gung ho in favor of euthanasia on two of my horses. The first was 29, with a sinus tumor. The second was well into her 30s and pretty much lost her mind. She got aggressive with my husband, whom she adored for 15 years, and couldn’t figure out where her food was when it was right in front of her. On the first, we didn’t want him to suffer (his breathing was impacted), and on the second, she became very dangerous. Plus she couldn’t possibly be happy at that point in her life, and again, I’m not one to make an animal suffer.
These circumstances were several years apart,
This vet was very blunt, always called it like he saw it. We really liked that about him. He was clear that neither horse would get better, and the mare might injure or kill one of us.
Rebecca
When my dog was diagnosed with bone marrow cancer my vet was relieved when I chose euthanasia instead of biopsy and Chemo. He didn’t say so but I saw it in his face.
I worked at a small animal clinic for many years. Nearly every single euthanasia I participated in was “too late” for what I felt were standards for basic quality life. In all my years I never once heard either vet in the practice recommend euthanasia and it led to a lot of emergencies and traumatic rushed passings. I have lasting secondary trauma from that. A day too soon rather than a second too late has been my mantra ever since.
The average person puts down a handful of animals in their lifetime. There are two horses in my orbit that I see as painfully obvious PTS and the owners have/will explode at the suggestion. Both will be traumatic emergencies at some point in the future when there is a catastrophic limb failure or acute neuro event.
On here I think the bar is “lower” in that it is oriented to where it should be if we remove ego, fear of judgment, business advertising, human discomfort, etc. There’s a fair amount of anonymity on here and unfortunately a lot of collective wisdom from heartbreak and having to make hard calls.
I think the OP has navigated a difficult thread with a lot of grace and has been very receptive. It’s hard going from “should I just try to find another trainer” to “retiring or considering euthanasia”. I am hopeful that everything shared has been processed and she will be thoughtful if she goes the retirement route. This horse could thrive in a very hands off herd dynamic or may not.
I’m sorry that this was your first horse and I hope that you’ll find peace with the decision to end her riding career. It is the most compassionate thing you could do for you both. It isn’t giving up. It isn’t not trying hard enough. It’s being wise enough to understand your safety and her safety have to come first and that’s not compatible with being a riding horse.
If you do decide to euthanize, there are a lot of people on here who have walked that difficult path and are willing to be a compassionate ear. It can be a very lonely decision in real life if you haven’t found like-minded people.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
