Belgian Drafts for Dressage

[STF]

Go back 8 page, I already wrote on that.

In short, any horse an benifit from dressage work, dressage is training - literally. What I have found is horses that are bred for it, it comes easier to them. The balance, the elastic, suppleness. What you see in a 4 yr old when you first get on one of those “bred for it” is amazing as its just there and you build on it.
When you have those who are not, such as drafts that have straight shoulder, croups and hips that are built for pulling, not elastic quick hind legs, you run into road blocks. Can it be overcome, yes… to a point, but not was easy as the horse that is bred for it that offers. Those that can have a active and quicker hind leg can step up under itself, elevate the front end and give power, which the draft types (as we are talking about) are heavier made in the front, with straighter shoulder (for pulling) and are not quick behind due to conformation.

It comes down to how much you want to work at getting up the levels.

I said before, that many draft and draft crosses would make awesome horses for low level AA’s wanting to go out, drink a beer and just have some fun, but for someone wanting to go as far as possible, I do not recommend that choice. Its a long, hard and expensive road, so why not start with a horse that CAN offer the simple dynamics that will make a trainers and riders life easier.

Re: the registries, I live and breath this stuff cuz of what we do. So it kinda gets to me when I hear goofy stuff that does not makes sense. Its stuff like that, that misleads people and its uncool.

[NoDQhere]

[QUOTE=mishmash;3356946]
Pictures of my big guy (will try this-if it doesnt work, will try again a different way.)
Training level, warming up. Is he perfect-no. Do we have things we are working on-yes. But does anyone posting on this think this horse is not capable/being harmed by doing dressage???

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28520136@N02/?saved=1

Edited to say Critique away!![/QUOTE]

Not at this level, no. No one has said that, AT ALL.

[STF]

As Patty said, not at this level. Training and 1st level is basic work every horse needs to know. Its when you start asking for collective work that you stress points of the body and “ask for more” as you go up the levels where the amount of power that needs to be on the hindquarters. Training and 1st level work is something all horses of any breed should be doing.

[Donella]

And it continues… What’s the point anymore guys?

[preferred]

STF,

Your argument misses my point about a horse that is conformationally correct regardless of his bloodlines. Remember my quote form the Olympian above?.."…and his mother was a DRAFT?!"

I completely and wholeheartedly agree about suitability of the body. However, I don’t care about who the horse’s parents are…I’m a rider not a backyard breeder (what I really find fault with). I understand this type of thinking irritates breeders because again breeders are in it to make money and to make a living so they must justify to an average buyer why that buyer should spend 2 to 3 times more $$ on a baby that MAY or MAY not turn out as superb as it’s parents. Buying ANY baby is a risk in itself because there are no guarantees what it will grow up like. I have seen some pretty ugly babies come from gorgeous parents and vice versa…and this is not only true for our 4 legged friends :lol:

It is safer to buy a 3-4 year old than it is a weanling…at least you get a better idea of the conformation. May not be complete but at least a good indicator. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[STF]

I know, I know…
Its like a bad car wreck, you just cant help but come back and look.
Plus, both kids are up with tummy aches (to much watermelon) so I cant go to bed yet! :lol:

[preferred]

why stay in the game if you don’t want to play?

don’t you see we are arguing over the same darn thing but painted a different color?

Don’t hide behind snarky comments or rude private conversations between yourselves making fun of other posters on this board…not nice and since you are a professional (based on your web links) defintely not good for business I would think.

[STF]

I completely and wholeheartedly agree about suitability of the body. However, I don’t give a rat’s (*) about who the horse’s parents are. I understand this type of thinking irritates breeders because again breeders are in it to make money and to make a living so they must justify to an average buyer why that buyer should spend 2 to 3 times more $$ on a baby that MAY or MAY not turn out as superb as it’s parents. Buying ANY baby is a risk in itself because there are no guarantees what it will grow up like. I have seen some pretty ugly babies come from gorgeous parents and vice versa…and this is not only true for our 4 legged friends :lol:

I never said they did, I just said overall the horses conformation has to be at the level of the worked ask for it. What we find (and why Im talking of correct breeding) is that certain bloodlines crossed with other certain bloodlines are proving to be postive crosses in gentics traits. Like Londonderry on Weltmeyer, it has proven to be a good cross over and over again. But… its not a do all, its only a genetic suggestion in an embryo that we hope for the best for. Then, some get lucky, some dont.

[slc2]

because you hope the game will wise up?

[Carol_Ames]

“Good breeding shortens training’”

[quote=Ambrey;3356374]
Of course conformation is part of ability. It’s just not ALL of ability. There are those for whom it comes easy physically, and those whose heart and motivation make up for their limitations.certainly , it is not all about conformation; but, functional conformation, plus genes,:yes: and aptitude for certain disciplines make the job much easier; The Germans say " good breeding shortens training time ,":yes:, and I definitely agree , and then there is handling , and training; if you and your horse are enjoying:winkgrin: what you are doing,and you want to see how high you can go, go for it!I do think you should sit on an upper level horse at least once :yes:to see what the collected gaits feel like;:yes:

[STF]

@preferred;3357115

why stay in the game if you don’t want to play?

Neither Donella or STF have even touched upon my Olympian quote…don’t you see we are arguing over the same darn thing but painted a different color?

Because it does not matter. Whooohooo, an Olympian (ummm, they are human too! :lol: ) that found a HALF draft that got postive conformation traits to do the job in hand. What is the big deal? There ARE two sets of parents there, am I wrong?

[NoDQhere]

[QUOTE=preferred;3357115]
why stay in the game if you don’t want to play?

Neither Donella or STF have even touched upon my Olympian quote…don’t you see we are arguing over the same darn thing but painted a different color? QUOTE]

OK, so tell us. And then tell us what kind of draft momma was. Better yet, ya got pictures???

[preferred]

you can ask Lendon for the pics yourself

[QUOTE=STF;3357119]
I never said they did, I just said overall the horses conformation has to be at the level of the worked ask for it. What we find (and why Im talking of correct breeding) is that certain bloodlines crossed with other certain bloodlines are proving to be postive crosses in gentics traits. Like Londonderry on Weltmeyer, it has proven to be a good cross over and over again. But… its not a do all, its only a genetic suggestion in an embryo that we hope for the best for. Then, some get lucky, some dont.[/QUOTE]

STF,

I finally agree with you

[STF]

Good, cuz Im tired of aruging. That (above) was all I was trying to say!!! Any horse can be a good horse as long as they are built for it.

[STF]

Wait, not arguing… far from that. Debating. Thats a better word. I dont have a fight in me anymore. Two kids under the age of 3 took that out of me, along with the rest of my energy.

[preferred]

Thanks for a good debate STF. I like you. Have a good night and I hope your kids feel better. Try a warm toasty towel over their bellies, allways worked for me when my son was colicy.

[STF]

Thanks!
Watermelon and grandma gave them chocolate cookies on top of it.
Wonderful…
:lol:

[Ambrey]

@preferred;3356977

If your dream is GP and to win at GP first you must define for yourself what win means to you…the score or the ribbon? Personally for me, it is the score!

Secondly, ANY time spent developing a horse “that may or may not make it” is time spent working towards that goal. Remember, THIS IS ABOUT THE JOURNEY

Hey, I am totally with you! I just know for some people, the journey is secondary to crossing the finish line in first place. And they are going to do what they can to assure that they make it.

[Phyxius]

[QUOTE=STF;3357119]
I never said they did, I just said overall the horses conformation has to be at the level of the worked ask for it. [/QUOTE]

I know I am such a liar as I’m posting again and it’s been less than a day since I said I was done. But, so does the above quote mean that you concede that regardless of the actual breed if the confirmation if correct you’re “okay” with a horse working it’s way up through the levels?

[Ambrey]

@STF;3357008

WHAT are you talking about??? WHAT?
The majorities of the WB registires require inspection of mare and foal and for the sire to be approved through their registry or one they consider on the same base they are.
I DO know registires and I know them VERY VERY VERY well.
Please tell me what registires your speaking of?

US horse registries such as the American Spotted Horse association and the American Half Quarter Horse association. The registries that make up 99% of the “registered” horses in the US.

I have the UTMOST respect for the American arms of the euro WB registries. They are a completely different paradigm than the “horse registry” that the US is used to. I think AWS is something in the middle, offering something to the American public that isn’t ready for what Europe has been doing for years, but a little more performance oriented than the way horses have been registered in the past.

Twas my only point, I wasn’t trying to put them into competition with the WB registries based on the european model.