And I don’t believe there’s any concrete evidence that it will prevent injury.
Legend most certainly can be and is used intraarticularly, but more commonly is administered in a higher volume intravenously.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;3359769]
Legend most certainly can be and is used intraarticularly, but more commonly is administered in a higher volume intravenously.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the education, Ghazzu. I have not had joint injections done on my horses, but Legend was the name that always came up. I obviously hadn’t done the IV version either!
Sorry, STF. I now assume you have the IV Legend. Although, do your horses need the injections? If you took them off the injections, would they not move as well? Would they be off? Of should I say, if you took them off, would they be less “happy” to do their jobs?
Well, you can tell these people:
http://www.forresthillfarm.com/index.html
that they’ve imagined the success of their program. I don’t know if there are any breeders who are having the same success with Shire sporthorses, but there are breeders in the US successfully breeding perch crosses for dressage.
And if you’d bothered to read any of my posts, you’d know that I don’t disagree with most of the rest of your points.
Well, if you’d read the entire thread, you’d know that indeed Cottonwood Flame, a purebred Percheron, did quite well at Grand Prix. So there is at least one draft horse in the world.
And sorry, but you don’t get to define who among us are “dressage riders” and what that means. A dressage horse is a horse that does dressage. Just because you have decided they don’t do it “right” is meaningless (especially if they are scoring well).
LOL, quite a leap there hon.
My horse is in a pelham for 1st/2nd level dressage training. You’re perfectly welcome to disagree with my trainer for making that call (he has a few of his training horses in pelhams right now, and mine is the only draft x), but he does have his reasons (and has explained them to me quite nicely). The pelham is a new introduction, until last month he was going in a loose ring snaffle quite nicely at TL/1st.
When I take him out on trail, he goes in a Baucher.
Gawd, people’s abilities to jump to conclusions here is insane.
Thomas - you mentioned the draft shows in England. I think there is a disconnect between the UK draft circuit and the US draft circuit. As someone mentioned in another thread, there are riding classes in various draft circuits. I do not think this is the case in the UK. It seems in the UK, they emphasize the original intent of each breed while in the US, they want their special breed to be versatile and able to do anything.
From the Shire Horse Society show results website:
[B]CLASS 29 - RIDING HORSE - open to exhibitors riding a pure bred Shire Horse.
CLASS 30 - RIDING HORSE - open to exhibitors riding a half bred Shire Horse. [/B]
FYI.
For those that don’t know, The Shire Horse Society is the registry for pure and part bred shire horses in the UK. (Patron - Her Majesty the Queen)
I didn’t jump to any conclusions… hon.
I asked a question.
:no:
No - I’m not kidding! Though I think the 6.5 in an eggbutt might work better.
I did say they have gigantic heads, didn’t I?
And no - I do not believe this horse is capable of performing the upper level movements. Though he does mimic what appears to be piaffe if his dinner is late.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3359828]
Well, you can tell these people:
http://www.forresthillfarm.com/index.html
that they’ve imagined the success of their program. I don’t know if there are any breeders who are having the same success with Shire sporthorses, but there are breeders in the US successfully breeding perch crosses for dressage.
And if you’d bothered to read any of my posts, you’d know that I don’t disagree with most of the rest of your points.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, taking a quick look at that site it would appear that the horses that are succeeding are NOT straight Perch xTB. They are Perch xTB+something else with definite dressage breeding & conformation. IOW, the Perch has been pretty diluted.
I’ve seen a few 50/50 draft xTB crosses that come out with the best of both breeds, but generally you get a hammer & short thick neck on a light frame, or a long lean frame on short upright legs, or worse.
Having waded through this whole thing, I still don’t understand why people get outraged when told that a particular breed that was designed to do a particular function will probably not excel at doing something totally opposite to the job it was originally bred to do! The oddballs who can do the other job are not a true representation of their breed, and it’s not a sin or an insult or a miracle, It Just IS.
Sorry, STF. I now assume you have the IV Legend. Although, do your horses need the injections? If you took them off the injections, would they not move as well? Would they be off? Of should I say, if you took them off, would they be less “happy” to do their jobs?
All of my horses are sound, all the horses I have sold are sound. Thank you. We do it for preventative measues as we know it takes may yrs to get to the levels people want to get to and we take very good care of our horses.
The oddballs who can do the other job are not a true representation of their breed, and it’s not a sin or an insult or a miracle, It Just IS.
Now, you can be the antichrist of all of this, Im bowing out! Good luck! :lol:
Now, you can be the antichrist of all of this, Im bowing out! Good luck!
Get out while you can…run, save yourself!:lol: There really is no point in discussing this with people who own draft horses. I can have a realistic discussion about the breeds I ride and breed…no problems. Apparently this is not the case for the draft horse owners here.:no:
Im gona go ride my black draft wanabe with the big “H” thingie on her ass.
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3359754]
Thomas - you mentioned the draft shows in England. I think there is a disconnect between the UK draft circuit and the US draft circuit. As someone mentioned in another thread, there are riding classes in various draft circuits. I do not think this is the case in the UK. It seems in the UK, they emphasize the original intent of each breed while in the US, they want their special breed to be versatile and able to do anything. I see this with just about any breed enthusiast in the US, whether it be a draft, quarter horse, arabian, walker, whatever. Some breeds were bred to be more versatile, but others were not.
In the US, I see a lot of “I love my breed, therefore they can do anything” and when you look at the individual (competing somewhere that the breed was not meant to compete in) compared to the breed standard - while the individual is registered and full blood, they do not hold up as well against the breed standard, but this does not seem to bother the star-struck owner.[/QUOTE]
Oddly enough the US draft shows originally had the riding classes as a bit of a joke. It was also a bareback walk-trot class. They started expanding them because the horses were versatile enough that the classes became larger and much more competitive. So they added a under-saddle class with canter. That filled and became competitive. So they added more because the horses are very capable under saddle and people see it as another venue to show off their good horses.
My Percheron registered and full-blood and holds up fine against the breed standard. She comes in middle of the pack in halter. And she isn’t shod for it.
Right, that’s what I said.
:eek:
I will continue to be amazed at the ability of the people on this board to pick and choose what they read to make a post say what they wanted to hear. Do people just skim over the posts that don’t agree with their preconceived notions or what?
Reading one post out of context with the rest of my posts in this thread isn’t the best way to understand what’s happening. Picking and choosing among my posts and finding comments here and there that demonstrate your point and taking them out of the context in which they were discussed is bad forum form.
So just to reiterate (I’ll see if I can make this as clear as possible):
- He is not a purebred percheron. He is percheron x quarter horse.
- I am not holding my horse up as the perfect example of a purpose bred draft cross. He was NOT purpose bred for dressage.
- The fact that he can be a bit strong is an example of one of the drawbacks of a short thick neck, yes.
- [I]HE [/I]is not doing walk/trot work. [I]I [/I]am doing walk/trot work (which is more than my physical therapist thinks is sane). He is being schooled in dressage, and is doing work at 1st and 2nd level. He is also teaching me and doing a pretty darned good job of it.
- He is in full-time training with an FEI level dressage trainer, and has been since about February.
- He enjoys dressage immensely. He has attacked every new skill with enthusiasm. My trainer loves riding him and training him. My old trainer loved riding and training him. Apparently he just didn't get the memo that he's supposed to be a terrible dressage horse, that he's supposed to hate it, that new skills are supposed to be difficult and frustrating to him. He just plows through roadblocks and challenges and asks for more. This, I am told, is the Percheron spirit, and I see the same thing in Lewin's horse.
- He has already exceeded what was expected of him tenfold. We are very, very proud of him. He is who and what he is, and we adore him. He'll get as far as he gets. I'll get as far as I get. It's all about the journey.
- He is barefoot and extremely sound, never an off or even sore day.
I was not using the crosses to prove anything about purebreds- I was using their crosses to demonstrate that people are successfully breeding crosses for dressage.
The thing is, their crosses are based on the purebred Percheron stallion, Cottonwood Flame, who won quite a bit at Grand Prix. So their site does double duty.
Help a stupid foreigner pls
Can somebody explain to me what “1st”, “2nd”, “third” level etc is. We have Prelim, Novice, Elementary, Elementary Medium, Medium Advanced, Advanced, PSG, Intermediere and Grand Prix, so I’m a litte confused.
It would just make it easier to understand when you say “schooling at 1st”, etc.
Being a non-delusional full draft owner I will say that all horses have to be looked at with a discerning eye as to their comfort during their training. So far my horse still enjoys what he does. We are schooling first level movements introducing second level collection showing successfully at intro. So far he is vary happy with his work. I know this because when he is off or something is up he will refuse to put the bit in his mouth. When he is feeling good he will put his head into his bridle and take the bit from me. I have never pushed my horse too fast or too hard. I think what hurts or should I say offends most draft or draft x owners are the terms always and never, or the implications that we are not smart enough or have these huge egos and will hurt our horses for a score or a ribbon. I realize that Rocco is a Belgian he is built like a bulldog. But he is light and collects when we have those moments of true collection as short as they are but they are getting longer as we school he floats and has extension that makes sense for his body. I bought my horse because he is smart you can put him out to pasture for a few months and will remember his training and be safe to ride. My husband can work with him if I am sick or I get injured. Also I have never use and draw reins or a pelham to get Rocco to collect. I have always trained in a full cheek snaffle. I have a full cheek because my inside leg does not always communicate with my outside rein properly. I feel that no matter how big and strong the horse is if you use quick tools you do not get true results. Proper training is proper training. When Rocco and I started working together and he was strong on my hands we did nonstop transitions until he would stop from my seat. By the way I guess that I should mention that Rocco is only 15.3 1800 lbs. size 5 mouth.