“schooling at 1st”,
it means you’re sitting in a dressage saddle on a horse.
Actually, they started with a purebred percheron stallion (Cottonwood Flame, the GP percheron) and have been experimenting a lot. This page tells about their philosophy and how they choose the horses they cross:
http://www.forresthillfarm.com/page2.html
but this is one of their studs
http://www.forresthillfarm.com/page24.html
Having waded through this whole thing, I still don’t understand why people get outraged when told that a particular breed that was designed to do a particular function will probably not excel at doing something totally opposite to the job it was originally bred to do! The oddballs who can do the other job are not a true representation of their breed, and it’s not a sin or an insult or a miracle, It Just IS.
Because clearly some people disagree with you in terms of What Is. And some people have to use their comments on what a draft is bred for to bash those who are using their drafts for dressage (not really dressage riders? please!).
I ride in the arena with GP riders on horses worth more than my house, and never get the kind of attitude that I see here. Apparently at the barn we have a complete shortage of people who believe their choice in breeds makes them superior human beings, or that people doing things differently aren’t doing it “right.”
[QUOTE=Kaeleer;3360037]
Can somebody explain to me what “1st”, “2nd”, “third” level etc is. We have Prelim, Novice, Elementary, Elementary Medium, Medium Advanced, Advanced, PSG, Intermediere and Grand Prix, so I’m a litte confused.
It would just make it easier to understand when you say “schooling at 1st”, etc.[/QUOTE]
In America we have levels just like you have they are just named differently. The lowest level in usdf is Intro basically walk trot looking for connection and submission to the aids, next is the 4 training levels which introduce canter to the test once again looking for more connection than in intro, Next is first and so on. each level you are introducing new movements and a higher level of collection. I’m sure it is the same thing just different names.
[QUOTE=slc2;3360047]
“schooling at 1st”,
it means you’re sitting in a dressage saddle on a horse.[/QUOTE]
and doing lateral movements. sorry I like to work classically for the joy of the art not to prove how fast I can bring a horse along. Sorry to offend your sense of the sport.
No, it means he’s perfecting his laterals while working on his balance and straightness, and that he hasn’t competed that level yet.
And while he’s doing that, he’s being introduced to the new skills at 2nd.
As the owner of a perch/tb schooling 3rd level, this thread is interesting, to say the least. My guy was bred for dressage, at the farm that’s been mentioned in many of these posts. Yes, they had one pure bred perch. stallion who was just getting ready to start his international GP career when he died, he was incredible. But, even his trainer/rider will tell you he was a rare find. All of his get that I have seen all have a great talent and conformation for dressage. Most of those are very happily owned/trained/shown by AA. Several are being shown past 2nd level successfully, and training much higher.
That certainly doesn’t mean that because Woody was a full perch at GP, therefore all Percheron’s or dirivitives thereof (or your draft breed of choice) should be able to do it !
This farm has been selectively breeding for decades to get what they are producing now.
Most heavy ,typical draft horses that I have seen/ridden could not put together a respectable 1st level test.
But, in the end, who really cares. I love my horse, I think he’s built rather nicely (no huge head, tiny little feet etc…) he has a great personality, and we’re both happy. I have a few pictures on webshots if you’re interested. http://pets.webshots.com/album/209404685hcWsvL?start=12
Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack the thread. Thank you for clarifying.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3360035]
I was not using the crosses to prove anything about purebreds- I was using their crosses to demonstrate that people are successfully breeding crosses for dressage.
The thing is, their crosses are based on the purebred Percheron stallion, Cottonwood Flame, who won quite a bit at Grand Prix. So their site does double duty.[/QUOTE]
That’s kind of confusing because the original question was a purebred related question. There was no question of crosses and their abilities.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3360077]
No, it means he’s perfecting his laterals [/QUOTE]
Perfecting his laterals? While schooling first level? On what planet?
Nope, the original question veered off to separate subjects within the first page. The concept of purpose-bred crosses was brought up around page 14, I think.
The OP was about Belgians. Forrest Hill is Percherons. Not even the same breed 
Why do I keep opening this thread?
[QUOTE=saje;3359919]
Hmmm, taking a quick look at that site it would appear that the horses that are succeeding are NOT straight Perch xTB. They are Perch xTB+something else with definite dressage breeding & conformation. IOW, the Perch has been pretty diluted.]
If you had looked at anything other than the current horses for sale, you would see that they have had great success with TB/Perch crosses. FEI level success. 50% Perch, 50% TB.
Look at Forest, Portmanteau, Valise, etc, etc
If you look at forresthill’s website, there is quite a bit of WB in their breeding program… I see Oldenburg and Hanovarian. That goes back to my point about breeding for market. Old bags like me would be quite happy with a draft cross, but we also don’t like to spend much, nor do we promote the work of a breeder very well in the grand scheme of things, a.k.a. we are not competitive, and we do not have 20 students all looking for competitive horses. As a breeder, these are serious consideration. If I am a breeder, I would also add a little WB in there, so you still get a pretty docile, no top speed type of character, but something that trainers like to work with as well.
I do have a draft cross, and have worked with Belgian crosses. When looking at this thread, one can clearly tell who are the professionals and experienced, and who are not… one who knows the reality of things, one who is comfortable with the reality of things. To me, unless you are blind, it is impossible to see an average Belgian cross that is of dressage type. They are built differently, they move differently, period. My draft cross, who is coming 4, she still has problem sustaining canter on a 20m circle without a rider, and I am not going to 4 beat her just to call her a dressage horse. That is serious lack of talent. For the average Belgian draft cross to be suitable for the sport, you are looking at an individual that looks and moves totally unlike the rest of his breed. It does happen, and the dedication of riders etc play a huge role as well.
On the planet where he’ll be a terminal student.
Should I say “perfecting his 1st level laterals and introducing his 2nd level laterals, working on his gaits, etc?” I would think every trainer would have different ideas of what they would be doing with a horse at this point.
With him, because laterals are his strength, he’s more advanced there. He is less advanced in his weak areas- self carriage, mediums, etc. It is hard to put a level on him- I’d say he could do a good first level test now with a non-gimpy rider, working on 2nd. Is that clearer?
He’s not a warmblood who was born into this life. He’s just a Draftx who seems to like it.
[QUOTE=slc2;3360047]
“schooling at 1st”,
it means you’re sitting in a dressage saddle on a horse.[/QUOTE]
:lol: So, SLC…where are you schooling, hmmmm
How many FEI horses have you been on :lol:
Well slc2’s reply is full of nothingness, as usual. Schooling first is where all of the basics are put on the horse so that he can go on to perform fancy tricks correctly.
Somebody please come shoot me between the eyes. I can’t bear to look at this thread anymore, but the sadist in me can’t turn away.
Donella? STF? THOMAS? PLEASE SAVE ME!
And once again, things are as clear as mud!
Ambrey, when/if you ever get beyond Training Level, come back and give me your definition of what it means to be schooling at other levels.
Why does having one untalented member of a breed have more bearing on what is possible/what is real than having a talented member?
I don’t think my horse is probably indicative of what’s probable if you breed a percheron to a QH. But he’s certainly indicative of what’s possible (and I’m sure there are others even more talented than he is out there.)
I think the disconnect here is that when someone says “x is possible,” someone else wants to call them delusional if it isn’t probable. Probability isn’t necessary for possibility
I think all of us have different ideas of the probability of a Belgian, Belgianx, Percheron, Percheronx, etc to have some talent for dressage. However, some people are willing to give it a try if it’s POSSIBLE.
We are people who are willing to look toward possibilities. Our life’s bread isn’t made out of assuring success in the dressage arena. Our self worth doesn’t even depend on it. So, shrug, it’s possible.
