You know Ambrey the person I swiped this from will be wanting it back soon. She still needs to explain about bend or no bend in the renvers.
LOL, learn a new one today?
Donella… draft crosses have been mentioned quite often, especially towards the middle/end of this thread. I hope you don’t mistake people trying to demonstrate the abilities of some of the crosses as being defensive. If you’re going to make blanket statements to include a “crossbreed” that has absolutely no consistent type, some people are going to disagree.
Funny enough, grayarabpony, my OTTB jumped in much poorer form than my cross. They both have their pros and cons, though - the TB didn’t use his shoulder as well as my cross, but had more scope. The cross has a better canter, and thus is easier to ride to/from that really sweet distance. He also has an overall BIGGER stride; while I was always setting combinations and lines on the small side for the TB, the cross can make the 12-13’ stride. Both are/were pretty handy. The cross does lead changes, the OTTB didn’t. The cross will take much more work to reach a fitness level to my liking, but he’s a hard worker and is much more naturally talented at dressage than the TB was. If you’re ever in my neck of the woods, I’d more than welcome you to come take the big guy for a ride. 
Someone asked about his breeding. I was told he was draft x TB, but as we all know (and has been so kindly demonstrated) they don’t paper these mutts so its kind of like claiming your unregistered TB is a TB. Unless you bred and raised it with parents on site, how can your really tell?
He was owned by owner #1, who had him “started” as a 3yo. #1 then brought him over to #2’s house, dropped him off and said she’d come work with him all the time. #1 never came by, left town and moved to California. Two years later, #2 still has the beast sitting in the pasture with #1 nowhere to be seen. #2 sells beast to me with what little knowledge she has. He’s 5, a draft x TB, and was started at 3. I’m fairly sure, given his conformation and attitude, that he’s got both draft (likely perch) and TB close up in his lineage.
FWIW, I did not buy him BECAUSE he was part draft…but rather, in spite of it. I saw potential.
Actually yes. There is a girl at my office that is the deadliest fly catcher ever. Her mouth is so wide and it never closes so that it looks like a Venus Fly trap or Roach motel. Hapless bugs wander in but never come out.
I thought NO ONE could possibility beat her for continuous verbiage…until I started to read this thread.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3364278]
How many COTH forum posters does it take to decide whether Belgians can do dressage?
1 to analyze the conformation of a belgian and announce why it is inappropriate.
10 to show pictures of their horses doing dressage even though they have the above mentioned inappropriate conformation.
3 to tell the 10 above that they aren’t doing it right.
1 to say that not only are belgians inappropriate, but all drafts, draft crosses, horses that have ever pastured with a draft, and horses in drafty stalls are inappropriate.
15 people to complain that the thread is annoying… at least 3 times each.
5 people to use the thread to try out the new insults they learned on the playground.
… and so on 
eta: I forgot the people to tell the 10 who are doing dressage on the drafts that they are being cruel and their horses are being tortured.[/QUOTE]
You forgot the obligatory prolific totempole poster who knows very little of actual riding, but feels compelled to hold court on every topic imaginable…oh dear, there are two of those here now.
[QUOTE=bearcombs;3364314]
Someone asked about his breeding. I was told he was draft x TB, but as we all know (and has been so kindly demonstrated) they don’t paper these mutts so its kind of like claiming your unregistered TB is a TB. Unless you bred and raised it with parents on site, how can your really tell?[/QUOTE]
So…he could be part warmblood, he could be walker/quarter horse/Morgan, he could be a heavy American thoroughbred (I do know a few that could pass a Quarter Horse, though not draft cross), Irish Thoroughbreds may look like draft crosses. There are a lot of mixes that may produce something that looks like a draft cross and not actually be one.
Just saying, if you are going to use your horse as an example of what draft crosses can do, you might want to be sure it is a draft cross.
Here is another example of what a draft cross can do. And yes, I am 100% sure of his parentage, he is by a well-bred TB out of a Clyde mare. As I mentioned previously, not a cross I would personally make if I ever decided to venture into breeding (I won’t) but one I am very glad was made in this case.
Two more pics of my draft cross, this time jumping, both times ridden by my trainer at the time. No comments on the lack of helmet in one pic, I tried, he didn’t listen, and he was my only option at the time.
Showing the hunters several years ago, where he won his division at a large show at Conyers:
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/tikidoc/?action=view¤t=r2.jpg
Schooling at home over about a four foot fence (yes, some draft crosses do very well over four feet):
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/tikidoc/?action=view¤t=jumper.jpg
He is now a 10 yo, and remains (knock on wood) completely sound, although admittedly, he has had most of a years’ vacation until recently, and is a bit heavier than I would like at the moment. The only lameness issue he has ever had was from a hoof abcess.
Ok Draftysppl…
Yall are becoming insane over this topic. Like massive impulsive. Ya made your point, move on. My gosh, 26 pages of why my draft is better than your horse is getting a bit out there!!!
For the record, I am not saying “my draft (cross) is better than your horse”. My other horse is a Belgian WB (NOT Belgian draft cross), so I am not exclusively a ‘draft-cross person’. In my case, I was merely trying to use my horse as an example of a nice draft cross that CAN do the 4’ fences well, and has nice jumping form, since previous posters mentioned these things specifically as things that draft crosses are unlikely to be able to do.
Holy cow, STF, way to miss the point.
It was said that draft crosses can’t do it. When people click on the thread and read it, those who own draft crosses are posting showing that yes, they can.
If people don’t attack the breed, owners won’t need to defend it. It’s not a Ken L Ration commercial, we have no competition with each other until the day we step into the same ring.
I’d like you to go back through the post and see how much energy people have exhausted in trying to convince people that drafts and crosses can’t do the job we’re asking them to do. Failing that, they’ve just resorted to insults and name calling. Placing the blame for this trainwreck on those who are defending their horses seems kind of mean spirited.
Thank you, Ambrey, you made the point that I have been trying to make with my last couple posts (and pictures), just much more eloquently.
I agree if posters were not so anti-draft in dressage and telling me as a draft owner that I was hurting my horse, I would have never posted. Really lets all take it to the ring. I ride against better built fancier moving horses and I hold my own in the ring and get scores that I am happy with. I have never claimed breed discrimination if I got a score I didn’t like.
Just to remind you all what the topic WAS:
Note: OP did not ask about CROSSES. OP asked about Belgians.
Discussion stayed on topic until post #4, where Ambrey comes in and says (among other things):
I don’t have any experience with Belgians, and wasn’t aware that anyone was breeding them for under saddle work. Percherons, otoh, are becoming pretty popular as riding horses, including dressage.
I have a percheron x (quarter horse, who woulda thunk that would make a good mix?) and he is a fabulous dressage horse.
So, you all be the judge. Who started the “draft cross” trainwreck?
Dressage is dressage is dressage. Any horse should be capable of learning something. And the judges are supposed to be looking at the horse, not the breed, right? So, sure, I bet Belgians can perform dressage movements, but once you move to the higher levels they will be challenged by their build.
If I was looking for a “dressage” prospect, a Belgian would not be my first choice.
[QUOTE=STF;3365011]
Ok Draftysppl…
Yall are becoming insane over this topic. Like massive impulsive. Ya made your point, move on. My gosh, 26 pages of why my draft is better than your horse is getting a bit out there!!![/QUOTE]
It’s actually been the exact opposite. People saying that not only are their horses better than drafts or draft crosses, but that we’re cruel and unfair and ignorant to even attempt these things.
I don’t believe there’s been any my-draft-is-better-than-your-horse conversations here, maybe I’ve missed those, but there have been plenty of comments the other way around.
Didja READ post 3?
Not every horse is suitable for everything, especially when talking ULs, and accepting that is not discrimination. Though I personally think drafts and drafts crosses are great all arounders, but I dont buy into the “they are the ultimate sport horse, everyone who disagrees is just a snob” theory.
Hence my reply. The thread stayed on the topic of Belgians for exactly 2 posts.
eta: Since when is my posting that my draftx is a great dressage horse an invitation to a train wreck anyway? Why is my liking my horse so offensive to people? lol!
Exactly. And STF should go back and reread her posts. :rolleyes:
Of course there are draft crosses who are good in dressage, but I’ll believe your horse is a great dressage horse when I see a video of him showing or schooling second level in a snaffle. Can he do it? perhaps he very well can, but the way you argue his case is illogical. Instead of all of the endless arguing, putting up photos of butt-high (yes, butt-high) drafts and drafts almost four-beating on lunge lines, put up a video of your horse, schooling in a snaffle, showing self-carriage. It would carry a lot more weight and people would respect your opinion a lot more. Everyone likes a video of a horse working properly.
Actually, I want everyone to enjoy their horses and have the horses enjoy their work. Why not?
Just becuase a handful did does not mean they all can. Thats the point everyone forgets. Look at the ratio of breeds that have been known to excel (even at low levels) compare to high levels.
No, because everything that made sense here was ignored.
:lol::lol::lol:
[QUOTE=elctrnc;3365212]
Exactly. And STF should go back and reread her posts. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
No.
No one here (including STF) has made the blanket statement that doing lower level dressage on a draft is unfair, cruel, or ignorant. Even a sickle-hocked, downhill, flat crouped horse with no pasterns can probably benefit from doing training level.
What STF said, and what I totally agree with, is that it is unfair, cruel, and ignorant to ask a horse who truly has improper conformation for the sport, to train at the upper levels. The extension of that is, I think it would be unfair and ignorant to ask MOST horses with a “heavy draft” build (be they Belgian, Percheron, or Arabian for that matter) to do a proper canter pirouette, or piaffe. Indeed, it would be a recipe for blown hocks.
