[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;3273305]
BB is not a front runner, he is rateable… so I’m really not thinking he was confused… 
What you saw as confused, I saw as a pissed off horse that was boxed in and checked.[/QUOTE]
Amen!
Still technically on for the Travers Stakes although so was Smarty Jones 
DRF Sunday June 8, 2008 “Iavarone ‘perplexed’ by Big Brown’s flop”
Iavarone said the quarter crack on Big Brown’s left front foot, which had a patch affixed to it Friday afternoon, “was ice cold.” He said Big Brown’s throat was examined with an endoscope, and that no blood or mucus was found. He theorized that Big Brown might not have cared for the loose, deep track on the hot, sweltering afternoon. Iavarone also said Big Brown had a loose left hind shoe after the race.
“It’s a question mark at this point,” Iavarone said. “We’re perplexed. No one can figure this one out. We’ll watch him carefully the next couple of days to make sure we didn’t miss anything.”
Iavarone said that “unless something shows up in the next couple of days,” Big Brown would continue with his regular training and be pointed to the Travers Stakes on Aug. 23 at Saratoga.
By the way, even prior to the flop of yesterday, the Big Brown camp had nixed the $5M race for the MassCap against Curlin. Although considering Curlin’s camp is whining about a 128-lbs assignment I doubt you’ll see the two ever meet now.
I tend to agree with Pronzini. What was KD thinking before the race? He seemed frantic once the gates opened to get in a position - the other horses just running like normal - KD had BB all over the place. With that small of a field and that long of a race - surely he could have found an opening as the race progressed. Particularly “knowing” that he could allegedly rate the horse anywhere/anytime - and if had been counting on the expected burst of speed - again anywhere/anytime - why so panicky in the beginning?
And then to put him in a position to get pushed outside. I think he should have relaxed - kept him tucked in on the rail - and waited for a better opportunity. Granted - out of the gate BB wanted to go. But supposedly this horse easy to rate?
I agree BB looked too “dry”. I think his bulky build not suited for distance. (Although we thought beforehand that he could do anything). I think the heat was a factor - along with the steroids. Noted where BB did not like KD as exercise rider. Could the horse shut down because of that - that smart? BB surely looked frustrated first part of race.
In a sense KD rode like he suspected trouble - like somehow he knew things were different -IMHO. I still love BB - just not his connections. Did he win the Florida Derby on steroids?
Any photos of him as a youngster in regards to his build - pre-steroids?
His ride was terrible. Between all the banging around in the beginning and then being carried so wide he easily could have displaced. It does bother the horse when a horse inside them is bolting or in this case the jockey is being an @#$ and carrying you out past the middle of the track.
I did notice that he was not sweating in the post parade or when he was pulled up. He had a little lather but only between his legs. With the heat that might have been enough to zap his energy. I don’t know why they aren’t hosing them in the paddock before the race to keep them as cool as possible for as long as possible. That’s what we do here when it is hot.
The horse looked good galloping down the stretch when kent just let him lope to the wire. He didn’t run poorly because he was hurting. Probably breathing or heat related.
where was Dick Hertz?
I was really hoping that Dick Hertz or someone else knowledgeable would be at the Belmont for the race and give us the scoop on what was really happening. so hard to watch on tv, and of course there are different opinions on what happened and what didn’t happen. And everyone disagrees. Well if BB does race again, we can all watch and see what he does/does not do in a race.
I think BB had more lather btwn his legs than any horse out there.
Maybe, but you can only do so much training in between the Preakness and the Belmont especially when working with an injury.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;3273569]
I was really hoping that Dick Hertz or someone else knowledgeable would be at the Belmont for the race and give us the scoop on what was really happening. so hard to watch on tv, and of course there are different opinions on what happened and what didn’t happen. And everyone disagrees. Well if BB does race again, we can all watch and see what he does/does not do in a race.[/QUOTE]
snort
[QUOTE=grayarabs;3273534]
I tend to agree with Pronzini. What was KD thinking before the race? He seemed frantic once the gates opened to get in a position - the other horses just running like normal - KD had BB all over the place. With that small of a field and that long of a race - surely he could have found an opening as the race progressed. Particularly “knowing” that he could allegedly rate the horse anywhere/anytime - and if had been counting on the expected burst of speed - again anywhere/anytime - why so panicky in the beginning?
And then to put him in a position to get pushed outside. I think he should have relaxed - kept him tucked in on the rail - and waited for a better opportunity. Granted - out of the gate BB wanted to go. But supposedly this horse easy to rate?
I agree BB looked too “dry”. I think his bulky build not suited for distance. (Although we thought beforehand that he could do anything). I think the heat was a factor - along with the steroids. Noted where BB did not like KD as exercise rider. Could the horse shut down because of that - that smart? BB surely looked frustrated first part of race.
In a sense KD rode like he suspected trouble - like somehow he knew things were different -IMHO. I still love BB - just not his connections. Did he win the Florida Derby on steroids?
Any photos of him as a youngster in regards to his build - pre-steroids?[/QUOTE]
Don’t know about BB, but I know my TB is super sensititive and I ride him as such…if he gets pissed off over anything, the work is pretty much over for the day. If there’s ever been a horse in my life that has taught me the importance of patience, it’s been this TB. He will give me his all, but I do keep our “discussions”, just that…a discussion between the two of us…I don’t TELL him to do anything…I ask and because we do have a bond, 9 times out of 10 he will give.
This AM he didn’t like something on one side of the ring…now if it were my Han/TB crossed mare…I could have given her a touch of the whip and moved her through…but with this boy, you don’t do that…it’s more of this conversation…“What’s the matter dear”…“OOOHHHH, I saw something over there that I don’t like”…“Come on, let’s go check it out, I promise you, it’ll be okay.” And I walked him past several times, then trotted…with tons of praise everytime he went past. He puffed up all big and bad like…“YEAH, I handled that”…and started licking and chewing, stretching. Now if I had gone to fussing, kicking…he would have shut down and basically said…SCREW YOU and wouldn’t have given me a darn thing…Wouldn’t have hurt me, but he would have spooked worse and tightened his entire body.
He’s been my greatest teacher in my life for patience and understanding.
So, if they didn’t have great chemistry and he did something that BB didn’t like (Whether it was in his best interest or not)…it wouldn’t surprise me that the horse would shut down and basically say, screw you…I’ll fight you around this track.
Just an opinion from an owner of a 24 year old TB who still acts like he is 3.
dalpal
love that post.
and I agree with you.
except, duh, you are reasoning with your horse and treating him like a thinking being.
some folks don’t think we (yes I do also) should do that.
glad you’ve got a 24 yr old!!! and smart, tbs are so darn smart.
:lol:
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;3273670]
love that post.
and I agree with you.
except, duh, you are reasoning with your horse and treating him like a thinking being.
some folks don’t think we (yes I do also) should do that.
glad you’ve got a 24 yr old!!! and smart, tbs are so darn smart.[/QUOTE]
LOL!!! I can reason with him better than most humans. :lol: Maybe I speak HORSE better than Human (giggle)
Edited to add…I think sometimes, we as the human race, forget just how giving horses are to allow us to get on their backs and ride them to glory, so to speak…Perhaps BB knew that there were some people in his camp who had gotten a little “up on themselves” and needed a reminder that a 1200 pound animal really doesn’t have to give you anything he doesn’t want to…always remember to say THANK YOU, please. LOL!
This is a touching photo:
Big Brown’s owner Michael Iavarone hugs Big Brown after the 140th Belmont Stakes horse race at Belmont Park in Elmont, N.Y., on Saturday,
Are you sure he’s hugging him and not trying to choke him. :lol: Just kidding of course.
[QUOTE=dalpal;3273720]
Are you sure he’s hugging him and not trying to choke him. :lol: Just kidding of course.[/QUOTE]
LOL
OK, I haven’t read all the posts. The only thing I can add is that my brother-in-law is a farrier. He saw a photo of Big Brown’s quarter crack. He said there was no way in h*ll that Big Brown would have won the race, or should have even ran in the race. Not with the way his hoof looked.
Even though I would LOVE to see a Triple Crown winner, Big Brown is not good enough to join that exclusive club. Besides, I wouldn’t be able to stand the rantings and ravings of his connections. Yuck.
Besides, Big Brown didn’t light my fire like Secretariat did. He’s the best of all. Besides, if you are going to love a horse, it might as well be the greatest one of all - BIG RED.
[QUOTE=Nikki^;3273719]
This is a touching photo:
Big Brown’s owner Michael Iavarone hugs Big Brown after the 140th Belmont Stakes horse race at Belmont Park in Elmont, N.Y., on Saturday, [/QUOTE]
Big Brown looks like he’s giving his owner the Big Raspberry
From a previous post: “Iavarone said…He theorized that Big Brown might not have cared for the loose, deep track on the hot, sweltering afternoon. Iavarone also said Big Brown had a loose left hind shoe after the race.”
BB had already proven he could run the distance, at least to 1-1/4 miles- and he did it in the Derby on the outside, so he probably ran a bit longer than that, and he had plenty in the tank. So he was pulled up before he hit the distance where we might have found out if he could run beyond 1-1/4, IMHO.
I thought I heard KD say, when they first got to him to ask, that the ground had given out from under BB, he couldn’t get his footing. IMHO, when he broke out of the gate, his back legs just slipped. I don’t think he was able to break out of the gate the way he would have liked and that helped set up the early problems he encountered. BB is a big striding horse and he brings those back legs up underneath him about as far as I’ve seen (In my limited experience) a horse do. So if that track was loose and deep, it might have been like taking one step and sliding back a half-step for each stride he took.
Do the special shoes he wears provide less traction than a normal shoe would? Would a smaller horse with a shorter stride have an easier time in that kind of footing?
Right from the start, he was uncharacteristically fighting KD. Given the tractability BB has shown for KD in other races, I have a hard time with the idea that BB doesn’t like KD. KD has hardly even touched him with the whip before, just told him “now.”
It looks, as others have said, that a combination of factors got to BB, heat, track, lack of training, and maybe steroid withdrawl.
But, I have to wonder. This horse hasn’t seemed to hardly break a sweat in any of his races. You begin to wonder about Anhidrosis. In the environment he had in the Belmont, any tendency to that would have been exacerbated to the extreme.
I could see BB becoming rank, not just from the bumping he was getting, but from anxiety about the footing and maybe a medical problem. He was not himself from the beginning.
Geeze
Either he was protecting B.B. or myself being a skeptic, perhaps Dutrow told Kent to pull up B.B. if he was in the postion of losing, so big mouth Butrow would save face and not have to explain a simple loss.
Much easier to make up a “Saving B.B. from injuring himself” story, instead of looking like the A$$ Dutrow made of himself with all his stupid arrogant comments for the past 3 weeks.
That my conspiracy theory…
[QUOTE=abbydp;3272576]
The jockey didn’t say he pulled him up because he couldn’t win. He said he felt that since the horse did not respond when asked, as he always has before, that he felt something was wrong. If I remember correctly he said " I needed to take care of my horse." [/QUOTE]
Sounds good to me…we’ve all done this too, haven’t we ?
Whether schooling for a show or just hacking around…if the horse isn’t right, we get off, and take 'em home.
