If you want a horse that can perform at the grand prix dressage level, don’t expect to produce it from generations that have flunked out at fourth (M) level. No matter what stud book/registry you are talking about.
Same with jumpers, etc.
Agree!
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;3768000]
And of course anytime this “situation” happens, it would just “have” to involve a Warmblood :rolleyes:.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and I loathe my Hanov/ Tb cross. That I bred myself.
Patty, face it, you’re a moron.
Patty, face it, you’re a moron.
That was uncalled for! 
Of course it wasn’t called for.
I do think people are a little silly about this breeding thing.
Most people, frankly, don’t get purpose bred dressage horses or high quality dressage horses. They don’t get them, they don’t need them, and they can’t afford them, and if they had them, they wouldn’t have the time or facility needed to maintain them. Purpose bred horses of a high caliber for any sport, are always rather more expensive.
They get horses they feel will do well enough at dressage. It is very unusual for them to pay a lot of money for a horse, or even, for it to have been intended to do dressage from the start.
There are always plenty of those horses around. There is no need to encourage breeders to breed inexpensive horses that are suitable for lower level dressage at the local level, a little trail riding. There are plenty of horses like that already just due to all the other riding sports.
When there were more saddlebreds around, many saddlebreds became dressage horses. Race horses, failed hunters, family horses bred at home from a beloved family pet, PMU horses, there are so many of these very ready to fill the role of a lower level dressage horse.
People get VERY upset if someone tells them the truth - ‘He’s good enough for what you want to do’, but that’s the truth of it. To have fun and learn, no one really HAS to get a purpose bred horse.
[QUOTE=slc2;3768773]
People get VERY upset if someone tells them the truth - ‘He’s good enough for what you want to do’, but that’s the truth of it. To have fun and learn, no one really HAS to get a purpose bred horse.[/QUOTE]
Of course this thread WAS about breeding and bloodlines for dressage until certain posters hear what they don’t want to hear :lol:. Funny how that goes.
Those of us who have actually “walked the walk” do actually understand about purpose bred horses. And others aren’t going to, no matter what.
And Grayarabpony, since you are such an un-moron, lets see some of your stuff??? You are an anonymous poster and so far I haven’t seen a thing???
I guess you haven’t looked very hard – I have posted pics of my horses before. And I have to say, they look better than yours. :winkgrin:
slc2 - As both a breeder and an amateur, lower level aspiring to be upper level dressage rider, I choose to think otherwise.
I don’t see “this breeding thing” as at all silly. I work very hard and have made a considerable investment, both in terms of time and money, to educate myself so that I make the most informed, intelligent breeding decisions I possibly can.
Most people, frankly, don’t get purpose bred dressage horses or high quality dressage horses. They don’t get them, they don’t need them,
Why don’t they get them or need? Is it because “most” people really aren’t interested in riding dressage, aren’t interested in competing in dressage, aren’t interested in progressing to the upper levels of dressage, or what?
and they can’t afford them,
What price range are you referring to? I know people who have paid what I consider a lot of money ($20,000 and up) for a horse advertised as a “dressage” horse that really wasn’t bred for or suited for dressage and will probably never make it to upper levels (PSG and beyond). I also know people who have paid less money ($5-10,000) for a horse that was bred for and suited for dressage and, in the right hands, probably will make it to the upper levels.
and if they had them, they wouldn’t have the time or facility needed to maintain them.
Why does it take more time or a different facility to maintain a purpose bred dressage horse, versus a non purpose bred dressage horse? One of my purpose bred dressage horses is stabled at a hunter/jumper facility. Here there are ponies and horses representing many different breeds. My board and training costs are the same as everyone else’s at this facility.
I also have 3 purpose bred dressage horses at home. The cost of maintaining these horses (land, feed, vet bills, etc) is no different than what any other horse owner in my area encounters.
Purpose bred horses of a high caliber for any sport, are always rather more expensive.
Again, why does purpose bred have anything to do with cost? As in any product, housing, food, clothing, whatever; if it is of a “high caliber” relative to other alternatives, it is more expensive. Therefore, purpose bred horses are only more expensive IF they are of higher caliber, not because they are simply purpose bred.
They get horses they feel will do well enough at dressage. It is very unusual for them to pay a lot of money for a horse, or even, for it to have been intended to do dressage from the start.
Again, who are the “most people” you are referring to. If it is the rider who isn’t interested in dressage, or isn’t interested in competing in dressage, or doesn’t aspire to ever progress to the point where they would be able to perform upper levels dressage movements, then I agree. These people don’t NEED the type of horse that I am trying to breed. I am NOT saying they don’t want, wouldn’t enjoy, or couldn’t ride this type of horse, but rather that they don’t need it.
But those are not the riders I am trying to breed horses for. I am trying to breed horses for riders who are not only interested in dressage, but also aspire to ride dressage in a manner that requires a more advanced level of training.
So, while it may not be “most riders”, I believe there are many riders who do want and need this type of horse. I believe there are certain breeds and bloodlines that are better suited for this purpose. I believe there is a strong market for horses that ARE bred for this purpose. And, I believe that market is well represented by those competing in USDF recognized events.
There are always plenty of those horses around. There is no need to encourage breeders to breed inexpensive horses that are suitable for lower level dressage at the local level, a little trail riding. There are plenty of horses like that already just due to all the other riding sports.
When there were more saddlebreds around, many saddlebreds became dressage horses. Race horses, failed hunters, family horses bred at home from a beloved family pet, PMU horses, there are so many of these very ready to fill the role of a lower level dressage horse.
People get VERY upset if someone tells them the truth - ‘He’s good enough for what you want to do’, but that’s the truth of it. To have fun and learn, no one really HAS to get a purpose bred horse.
And on this point, I agree.
I started with WB’s including working at farms that bred Traks, KWPN, and Hanno’s for years before I “switched” to Arabians. When I decided to breed Arabians, I did so with the idea of purpose breeding them for sport characteristics, and I selected individuals from bloodlines that had (repeatedly and in different generations) produced both FEI level dressage horses and WB approved breeding stock. My little program is only a few years old, but I am pleased with the early results and look forward to the next foal crops and future generations.
One CAN have an “off” breed and still be purpose breeding for qualities that make it “easier” for the horse to be capable of upper level work.
1 Like
WOW. Nice horses!
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3769564]
I guess you haven’t looked very hard – I have posted pics of my horses before. And I have to say, they look better than yours. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Somehow I just knew that is what you would say :lol:. Perhaps you could direct me to where I could see those pictures??? Oh, and since you have made this “personal”, perhaps you’d share with me some of your accomplishments?
Go find 'em yourself. You may find this hard to believe but I’m not real interested in helping you out. 
slc2 - As both a breeder and an amateur, lower level aspiring to be upper level dressage rider, I choose to think otherwise.
Originally Posted by slc2
I do think people are a little silly about this breeding thing.
I don’t see “this breeding thing” as at all silly. I work very hard and have made a considerable investment, both in terms of time and money, to educate myself so that I make the most informed, intelligent breeding decisions I possibly can.
Most people, frankly, don’t get purpose bred dressage horses or high quality dressage horses. They don’t get them, they don’t need them,
Why don’t they get them or need them? Is it because “most” people really aren’t interested in riding dressage, aren’t interested in competing in dressage, aren’t interested in progressing to the upper levels of dressage, or what?
and they can’t afford them,
What price range are you referring to? I know people who have paid what I consider a lot of money ($20,000 and up) for a horse advertised as a “dressage” horse that really wasn’t bred for or suited to dressage and will probably never make it to upper levels (PSG and beyond). I also know people who have paid less money ($5-10,000) for a horse that was bred for and suited to dressage and, in the right hands, probably will make it to the upper levels.
and if they had them, they wouldn’t have the time or facility needed to maintain them.
Why does it take more time or a different facility to maintain a purpose bred dressage horse? One of my purpose bred dressage horses is at a hunter/jumper facility with ponies and horses of many different types. My board and training costs are the same as everyone else’s.
I also have 3 purpose bred dressage horses at home. The cost of maintaining these horses (land, feed, vet bills, etc) is no different than what any other horse owner in my area experiences.
Purpose bred horses of a high caliber for any sport, are always rather more expensive.
Again, why does purpose bred have anything to do with cost? As in any product (housing, food, clothing, whatever), if it is of “high caliber” relative to other alternatives, it is usually more expensive. Purpose bred horses can be more expensive when they are of high caliber, not because they are purpose bred.
They get horses they feel will do well enough at dressage. It is very unusual for them to pay a lot of money for a horse, or even, for it to have been intended to do dressage from the start.
Again, who are the “most people” you are referring to? If it is the riders mentioned above, then I agree. These people don’t NEED the type of horse that I am trying to breed. I am NOT saying they don’t want, wouldn’t enjoy, or couldn’t ride this type of horse; but rather that they don’t need it.
But the riders mentioned above are not the riders I am breeding for. I am trying to breed horses for those who either can, or aspire to ride in a manner that requires a more advanced level of dressage training and ability, and want a horse that can go with them from where they are today to where they hope to be in the future.
So, while it may not be “most riders”, I believe there are many riders who do want AND need this type of horse. I believe there are certain breeds and bloodlines that are better suited for this purpose. I believe there is a strong market for horses that ARE bred for this purpose. And, I believe this market is well represented by those competing in USDF recognized events.
There are always plenty of those horses around. There is no need to encourage breeders to breed inexpensive horses that are suitable for lower level dressage at the local level, a little trail riding. There are plenty of horses like that already just due to all the other riding sports.
When there were more saddlebreds around, many saddlebreds became dressage horses. Race horses, failed hunters, family horses bred at home from a beloved family pet, PMU horses, there are so many of these very ready to fill the role of a lower level dressage horse.
People get VERY upset if someone tells them the truth - ‘He’s good enough for what you want to do’, but that’s the truth of it. To have fun and learn, no one really HAS to get a purpose bred horse.
And on this point, I totally agree.
I agree with you, Sherry. But you are in fact ‘purpose breeding’ horses.
Why don’t they get them or need them? Is it because “most” people really aren’t interested in riding dressage, aren’t interested in competing in dressage, aren’t interested in progressing to the upper levels of dressage, or what?
They don’t get them because they don’t want to spend the money on them, usually.
They don’t need them because they aren’t ever going to be focusing that hard on dressage.
Aren’t interested? Not to the point of spending a lot of money on competing or on lessons.
Competing? No, most people aren’t going to be competing in very ‘competitive’ shows.
Most people compete in 3-4 schooling shows or small local recognized shows, where the classes aren’t as tough and they can have a lot of fun.
Aren’t interested in progressing? I think people are interested, but when they find out what’s involved, they tend to gradually back away. The mental toughness, the time, the building of fitness through consistent riding, etc. Most people don’t go past riding 2nd at smaller local shows.
I agree that sometimes cheap horses go a lot further than people expect - I also would add that it is quite often possible to win a lot of all breed awards or place in small local fei classes a lot, without really doing all that great a quality work.
I would agree that sometimes more expensive horses go a lot LESS far than people would like. That isn’t always because ‘expensive is bad’, often it’s just a bad match.
I agree that talented individuals can be found, for cheap, from time to time, by people with a good eye and a whole lot of ability to bring along and train horses who can actually bring them along.
It’s real nice when someone gets a lot of horse for cheap.
But most of the time, real extreme bargains are few and far between. Someone is going to spot that talented horse and put some training into it and resell it. When one does find a real ‘steal’ that no one has yet grabbed up and started to put some work into, it’s luck, not the norm.
By the way, greyarabponies is ALWAYS saying that, that other people’s horses aren’t as good as greyarabponies’ horses, or that other people’s don’t look like much.
This is something everyone gets if they even have the slightest indication of not rah-rah-rah-ing for greyarabpony’s POV, or if there is even some possible chink that greyarabpony can wedge a stick into and start wigglin’ that stick around, LOL!
And actually, I’ve seen greyarabpony’s horses, and they are exactly like most people’s family horses. Nothing wrong with that… til one goes around insulting other people’s horses and saying their own are so, so much better. Then it gets a little annoying. It doesn’t get really obnoxious til after it’s repeated 100 times, which it has been, :lol:
I guess you haven’t looked very hard – I have posted pics of my horses before. And I have to say, they look better than yours
You should be ashamed of yourself, incredibly rude!:no:
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3769863]
Go find 'em yourself. You may find this hard to believe but I’m not real interested in helping you out. ;)[/QUOTE]
Gee Whiz, that answer was pretty predictable too. However you aren’t going to get me to insult your pony. I did go looking, with the help of a PM from a fellow COTHer. And you know what? I think your pony looks pretty darn nice.
Seems like your MO is to pick fights and only you know why you’ve picked me.
Now, how about we get back to our regularly scheduled topic :yes:???
SherryM, WildSwan Hanoverians…EXCELLENT POST!!
Friend of mine bred some AM Sea Captain bloodlines. I still think they would have made awesome dressage mounts. Very good sport conformation and movement! They well all smallish, 14h, but boy they could move!
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;3770108]
SherryM, WildSwan Hanoverians…EXCELLENT POST!![/QUOTE]
Ditto!
I think grayarabpony’s posts need to be ignored. Insults serve no purpose here.
Carry on with the discussion about dressage and bloodlines. Good points made by many!
Dont let this get personal, Patty. Breath.
