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Breeding for a Derby Horse - Stallion Help Needed

Sport Horse Breeding
#41

Conformation pic
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kimdhay/Splendid-Sheila3.jpg

I have a video of her a 3’6" that I’ll post if I can ever get it to upload.

She’s lost some muscle in her neck already due to being out of work and is certainly at that ugly clipping phase (head already filled in and black, body a mousey color). In my original post I worried about her back but what I really think is that her back is probably fine, I’d just prefer a little more neck. Am I right? I also think something about this photo makes her appear a little heavier boned than she actually is.

Thank you for all of the stallion input. I haven’t yet made a decision. We’ll be getting some vet input on the mare this week. When I recently said it would be hard to make a stallion choice, trainer suggested getting another broodmare, using ET and going for more than one baby next spring. After reading a couple of threads on this forum I decided that, as a first time breeder with a maiden mare, one will be risk-taking enough for me.

#42

[QUOTE=toomanyponies;6042089]

Coronett 2 is new stallion standing to the public for the first time this year. He is a Holsteiner that canters around the Grand Prix ring in a rubber D. Outstanding technique and scope, stunningly beautiful, superb temperment. His first foals are due this year.[/QUOTE]

toomanyponies, do you have a link to Coronett 2, or his farm?- he sounds lovely!

#43

[QUOTE=Fred;6044638]
toomanyponies, do you have a link to Coronett 2, or his farm?- he sounds lovely![/QUOTE]

Is this it?
http://stbridesfarm.com/stbridesfarm/Stallion.html

#44

So- how long do you think it takes to “make” a derby horse “from scratch”? 4 years? Five years? Any info on age of Derby winners?

Just curious. I know it has been beat to death but I understand preserving the bloodlines, but is it a real unknown to try for a “derby” horse (whatever that is specifically as opposed to an upper level hunter, Green etc) in a first breeding. Not to be snarky, just a real / honest question to some of the experienced breeders.

#45

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;6044700]
So- how long do you think it takes to “make” a derby horse “from scratch”? 4 years? Five years? Any info on age of Derby winners?

Just curious. I know it has been beat to death but I understand preserving the bloodlines, but is it a real unknown to try for a “derby” horse (whatever that is specifically as opposed to an upper level hunter, Green etc) in a first breeding. Not to be snarky, just a real / honest question to some of the experienced breeders.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! “Derby Horse” is the new buzz word! :winkgrin:

Joins the ranks of A/O friendly, working hunter, junior hunter, grand prix prospect… etc. :cool:

#46

Most of the horses showing in the int Derby are imports. Some are Green Hunters, Jr Hunters, A/O horses, high performance hunters and some have even moved over from the jumper division.
The horses need to be able to handle a little bigger fence and be rideable to do well in the Handy portion. The courses aren’t the mind numbing vertical to oxer with exact distances so the rider needs to be a little sharper too. Although a lot of them go so slow you’d swear it was a normal hunter class. There are Junior and A/O exhibitors who do well in these classes so it doesn’t always take a pro ride, just a good ride.

Pretty much if the horse is the type mentioned above it can do well as soon as it starts doing 3’6". So there is no 3 4 5 year training program. Age is the same as any other hunter division. 6 year olds to teenagers.
The other limiting factor is the size of the owners wallet. The entry fees for these classes are expensive.

It really is a buzz word. Now there is also the National Hunter Derby section. Same idea, lower jumps and there is nothing to stop a show from calling a 2’6" class a derby. The lower height ‘Derbies’ aren’t rated but ads for the winners in this stuff will still list the horse as a ‘Derby Horse’. 2’6" Baby Green Hunters are being called ‘Derby Prospects’. LOL

#47

Selah, Fred- yes, that is the link to St. Bride’s Farm where Coronett stands. They also have video of him, and the link was in an earlier thread here if you search COTH. He is a lovely boy, and Barb is great to work with.

For me as a breeder “Derby Horse” means I am not breeding for the 3 foot ammy market, but rather focusing on scope, canter, and technique. Movement moves down the list and athleticism and form become the highest priorities. I want to see solid jumper bloodlines and a stallion that himself jumped at the highest level of sport, or whose offspring have jumped at the highest level of sport.

#48

http://www.barnmice.com/video/whirlwind-ii-canadian

This stallion is being shown in the Hunter Derby classes in the midwest during the winter.

#49

Well here’s the thing.
There aren’t many rated Derbies in the Midwest during the winter. The majority are in FL,SC,MS. Deep South.

There was an Intl Derby at Lake St Louis, MO about 10 days ago and I think there are two scheduled in Katy,TX from now through the end of March.

Maybe one National Hunter Derby in TX in the same time frame.

And this is what causes confusion when using the term ‘Derby Horse’.

I’m sure the list of approved shows isn’t complete and I have no idea of the abilities of the horse so this is not a comment on the horse you mentioned.

#50

That stallion was supposed to show in St. Louis and the plan is to show further south in the coming months. Are there derby classes in Thermal?

#51

Thermal isn’t quite the mid west LOL

And no, they do not have Derbies.
What they do have are two types of classics or ‘Hunter Prixs’.
Those classes are unique to HITS and are not USEF rated although the finals for the Classic carry the largest amount of Hunter money . ever. 500K

#52

I should have put my question re Thermal in a separate paragraph.

I’m going to have to check out Thermal this season. I haven’t been out there since the show was in Indio.

I’d like to see a $500k class.

#53

[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;6044904]

For me as a breeder “Derby Horse” means I am not breeding for the 3 foot ammy market, but rather focusing on scope, canter, and technique. Movement moves down the list and athleticism and form become the highest priorities. I want to see solid jumper bloodlines and a stallion that himself jumped at the highest level of sport, or whose offspring have jumped at the highest level of sport.[/QUOTE]

Yes - this is what we are aiming for as well - a horse with the athleticism and scope for the 4’ hunters, jumping style that hunter judges are looking for, and a great balanced canter. Add in a willing work ethic and an unflappable temperament and we’d be pretty happy.

#54

Add in a willing work ethic and an unflappable temperament and we’d be pretty happy.

Ditto :wink:

#55

[QUOTE=selah;6044654]
Is this it?
http://stbridesfarm.com/stbridesfarm/Stallion.html[/QUOTE]

Yes, and there are a couple of photos on our facebook page, three wishes farm, and website as well. I visited him in person, watched him move - I really loved him. Could he have a little too much knee action for the ideal hunter trot? sure, but there is 4 jumping classes and one hack. . .

#56

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;6044700]
So- how long do you think it takes to “make” a derby horse “from scratch”? 4 years? Five years? Any info on age of Derby winners?

Just curious. I know it has been beat to death but I understand preserving the bloodlines, but is it a real unknown to try for a “derby” horse (whatever that is specifically as opposed to an upper level hunter, Green etc) in a first breeding. Not to be snarky, just a real / honest question to some of the experienced breeders.[/QUOTE]

Bolding in the above is mine, as that is the question I would like to address.
A stallion potentially gets many many opportunities to prove his breeding worth. A mare generally gets only one…and is allowed to continue in her career as a broodmare often on the “pass” or “fail” of her first foal. To aim for less than a stellar match for her in the desired focus of the owner/breeder would be unconscionable.
JMHO

#57

[QUOTE=selah;6046252]
Bolding in the above is mine, as that is the question I would like to address.
A stallion potentially gets many many opportunities to prove his breeding worth. A mare generally gets only one…and is allowed to continue in her career as a broodmare often on the “pass” or “fail” of her first foal. To aim for less than a stellar match for her in the desired focus of the owner/breeder would be unconscionable.
JMHO[/QUOTE]

Selah, I fail to see how a “mare generally only gets one…and is allowed to continue in her career as a broodmare often on the “pass” or “fail” of her first foal.” Certainly, if the mare produces a mediocre foal an intelligent breeder would consider not breeding her again, but can you pin the failure of her first foal on the mare alone? Maybe the stallion she was bred to wasn’t the best choice given the mare’s conformation, etc.

#58

[QUOTE=OGF;6045744]
Yes - this is what we are aiming for as well - a horse with the athleticism and scope for the 4’ hunters, jumping style that hunter judges are looking for, and a great balanced canter. Add in a willing work ethic and an unflappable temperament and we’d be pretty happy.[/QUOTE]

I think anyone would be pretty happy with that :smiley: I sure would!

#59

Trying to learn here …

Are Derby horses expected to go around dead quiet through the whole course like a “regular” hunter? Or are they allowed to show a little more spice or playfulness between the jumps?

#60

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6047431]
Trying to learn here …

Are Derby horses expected to go around dead quiet through the whole course like a “regular” hunter? Or are they allowed to show a little more spice or playfulness between the jumps?[/QUOTE]

In a coma, same as a High Performance Hunter.

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