<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
I just wish someone would tell him there’s an “r” at the end of “terror.” I keep wondering what in the world a “terra” is. 
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LOL, Erin! I kept thinking, “Tara? As in, ‘Gone With the Wind’? Terre? As in, Terre Haute?”
But I have to say … that was an excellent speech; kudos to the speechwriter. And he rose to the occasion. Very, very good.
Bulletin Board Goddess
Allah is the same God as the God of the Hebrews and the God of all Christians. Allah is the name given to him by Mohammed and they follow Ishmael the first born son of Abraham. The Hebrews supported the second born but biological son of Abraham, i.e. Sibling rivalry problem. Mohammed taught that Moses and Jesus were part of the history of their religion because of their relationship to Abraham who was father to all, but these sociopaths believe like previous perverted groups that everyone must be in the same religion and theirs is the only religion. In that case their logic, not that of the Koran is that everyone but them are infidels and should be killed. Bush said all that much more politely and briefly.
I don’t know WHY God is always thought of as a man or why Adam was created before Eve but we have always personified America, liberty and justice as women. We did have that discussion on these boards and I think resolved that God was either both or neither and had no sexual identity.
I believe the references made in the speech were because the Koran forbids even in a Jihad war that any Muslim ever kill a woman or a child for any reason. They apparently have proof that these guys violated their law because they tied the Stewardess’s hands with duct tape and slit their throats before the plane crashed in Pennsylvania. Just another way to prove they do not follow Islam or the Koran.
I heard nothing that indicated we intended to bomb the people of Afghanistan, to the contrary since our military is almost 40 percent smaller than for the Gulf war it would be most unlikely. What I hear Bush say was that all means would be used including the banks (follow the money), and all the countries that have been infiltrated as we have ourselves with intelligence. I heard an emphasis that they expect good intelligence information from all countries that will cooperate and then Special Services groups will be dropped in to clean out the nests.
There is a lot of talk about a special Delta force trained for this and that the repeal against assasinations has been passed for obvious reasons.
That certainly leaves a lot of wiggle room but no reason to believe there will be no casualties. It will take time with everyone working together to build the case and the contacts for these surprise visits. He also said there will be successes so covert we won’t even know that we have won a big one. We won’t be able to watch the battles on TV and that makes a big difference with Viet Nam.
But, Bush has deliberately separated the Muslims from being terrorists, he spoke of how they have been the victims of these sociopaths. Let’s not assume that we are not clever enough to diversify our tactics, afterall Guerilla warfare was how we got our independence in the first place while the British were marching around in bright red uniforms and nice neat little boxes we were in the woods in camouflage.
I think we don’t do anyone any favors when everyone jumps to conclusions. With less than 10 divisions we are not likely to march in on foot 10 a breast guns waving.
[This message was edited by Snowbird on Sep. 21, 2001 at 09:01 PM.]
How many American buildings need to be destroyed before we do something?
How many American lives need to be lost before we declare war?
Or, would you rather just sit back and watch until it affects you personally?
Or, would you rather give into these terrorists and let them do with us as they please?
Geez people, get real. Let’s start thinking about your future, your children’s future and the future of the free world!!!
That is really promising! Let’s hope they aren’t up to EVIL by sending in the Olestra or frankenfoods those europeans won’t buy!
But really, it is nice to hear some rationality being reported!
Ride it Like You Stole It…
pt,
Thanks for the personal statement. I have a feeling that I might be at least one of the “reactionary” name-callers you refer to. To be sure, in a forum like this one draws conclusions from the information given by other posters, which generally does not provide a complete picture. I apologize if I misrepresented you. I am likewise fascinated by the things that people call me here, which are almost always spectacularly inaccurate. Wanna know what I think about stuff? (Everyone’s favorite topic is themselves, so what the heck!)
I think institutionalized racism is a powerful force in the US, and it’s invisible to most of us. We are too quick to blame lack of achievement on lack of personal worth, and have little comprehension of the very real barriers to success that minorities have to deal with. Anyone who disputes this should read more about the history of redlining in mortgage lending.
I have been writing letters since the mid-90’s to my congresspeople about the Taleban and how they need a good international spanking.
I am a feminist, which means I recognize that women have not gotten a fair shake in the past, are still not getting a fair shake, and that this situation needs to be remedied.
I think untrammeled capitalism is as inhumane as communism. It is inaccurate to equate capitalism with democracy (apples and oranges) and unwise to assume that corporate CEOs and stockholders have our best interests at heart-they have consistently proven that they do not.
I think artifacts have politics–phones, toasters, bridges and car seats.
I prefer parliamentary social democracy a la the Netherlands and Sweden. No extremes of wealth and poverty, great municipal services, literate population, nobody falls between the cracks, small businesses are protected from predatory business practices, strong labor unions enforce people-centered employment policy. I like it when the state serves its citizens before its campaign contributors. Which is not to say that this setup does not have room for improvement - there are some things about western Europe that would drive me up a wall if I lived there.
I think there are some things that the US does well, politically speaking, and some things it does poorly. I think we spend too much time being self-congratulatory and not enough time trying to fix the broken parts. I would award the Greatest Nation on Earth certificate to Canada or the Netherlands, if measuring by things like overall quality of life, access to civil liberties, citizen participation in public issues, literacy, access to education and so on.
I think americans are in general very poorly informed about what is going on in the rest of the world. I also think that the emphasis on individualism is often (not always, but often!) a code for racism and greed. I think it’s immoral that our nation uses far more than its fair share of the world’s resources, and that we’ve left a wake of misery in other places in the world to ensure that we have an uninterrupted supply of oil for our SUV’s.
Uhhh, this is long enough to make anyone’s eyes roll back in their heads, so I’ll shut up now.
Have you not read and digested a singular thing that those you so delightedly dismiss as “bleeding hearts” have so eloquently written? How dare you dismiss these intelligent, considerate and educated posters.
Make your grand pronouncements under the conceit that somehow, by virtue of your age, you have a greater insight and perspective; proselytize under the mistaken assumption that by virtue of your age you are owed an unearned respect. I mostly find you self-serving, terribly offensive; and your opinions shameful. You could learn a thing or two from my 90 year old grandmother.
Congrats to you Snowbird, you have successfully driven me from this BB. Don’t want to share the virtual airspace with the stubbornly obtuse any longer.
Professor Hobson, concerning PsyOps (sp?) against Al Queda (also probably misspelled…) I’m not certain I fully comprehend what psychological operations would entail. The Wash. Post articles, which Erin so kindly provided links to, discussed the previous administration’s work in infiltration of terrorist networks with spys/informants, who were citizens of the same countries as the current members of the terrorist network - in particular, Pakistanis. (But this probably doesn’t fit the definition of PsyOps?)
While I am not an expert (I know this comes as a surprise to many of you 
), it seems that infiltration of all the scattered terrorist cells is the only way to ferret out these people. And yes, getting Bin Laden will not not end it - someone else will take his place. That could provide several decades of work for sex change specialists all over the world.
Preparing for disaster at home? I’ll do a little, but mostly because I’ll need it for weather emergencies! For some reason, power outages in my neck of the woods tend to last for 2 to 48 hours routinely. The only water supply for me and 5 wimpy equines is from an electric-powered well, so I’m learning to keep bottled water on hand, and the nag trough filled. (Well, they could drink out of the pond, but that would involve getting their dainty hooves wet…)
I am rambling incoherently. Back to one of you smart people.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
A true believer in individual rights would never object to whatever you want to do to your body including cigarettes and alcohol. How and with whom you choose to love is also not the business of anyone and the reason for our opposition to Big Brother.
My other pet peeve is that no one looks to see who paid for the survey that says we should drink red wine instead of white wine, or how about the two slices of rye bread to prevent cancer and a 100 more idiot reports paid for by the people who will increase their business if you believe the report.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
HEY, now that’s one of MY pet peeves too! Who do you think keeps telling us to drink milk!!! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inverness:
I cannot help but believe that the tone of bitterness and hostility in many of your remarks only succeeds in obscuring your valid contributions to the larger discussion. Why set out to offend those who you would seek to inform and persuade? Wouldn’t calm, well-founded, and rational discourse be a more effective vehicle for your opinions? Why aim to wound and disparage when to do so only belittles your own passionately-held beliefs? Those passionate beliefs - borne of life experience and contemplation - are so much more effectively expressed in the absence of ugliness and ire.
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So TRUE. When someone resorts to such nasty comments, I automatically dismiss everything else they say as hogwash, even though there may be good points hidden within the ugliness. When I found out Rush L. made fun of little 13 year old Chelsea Clinton, I never listened to another word he said. BTW too bad it wasn’t his voice he lost instead of his hearing.
I went away for a while and came back and read many interesting posts.
Snowbird, I hope you realize that the reason you are so healthy is because you are lucky, and not because cigarettes aren’t bad for you. I agree with you in that I don’t want “Big Brother” telling me what to do, what to eat, but has that really happened? I mean, really, I eat what I choose to. Big Brother is not telling me what to eat. There are newspaper articles that talk about nutrition, but they’re just articles, not “big brother”. There are the government guidelines, the pyramid and all, but hey, they are guidelines, not the law. I guess I’m not paranoid. I can also relate to you in being annoyed at paying higher rates for health insurance. I remember when my rate went up just because I hit 35. I was SO upset. I am very health conscious. I eat well, I do yoga, I exersize and here I was paying the same as my very less than health conscious friend, who was overweight, couch potato, smoker, etc. So unfair! Anyway, don’t know what to do about that. But regarding your comment “a chocolate cookie is a chocolate cookie”…well, I’m guessing that is because you are a smoker. Not only is it well documented, but from my own personal experience, smoking deadens your taste buds. I was at a wine tasting; you see my husband and I do love to taste wine & food, come up with tantalizing combinations, etc., it’s fun; and his sister had a cigarrette, so we did too (OK, I smoke about 3 times a year) and then went back to tasting and UG, I couldn’t taste anything. What a waste!!! So anyway, you really are a statistical anomaly, not the norm. My grandmother died from smoking (emphysema)before she turned 72, and it’s pretty common. (But it doesn’t mean I think smoking should be banned or anything DAG.)
I was also interested in reading other’s war stories. My mother was bombed during WWII and said it was pretty darn horrifying. She also has not talked about it much until recently. I mean it’s as horrible as you can think, getting up every day to pick up the pieces, finding out someone you know is dead. And then after the war, there was very little food. She’s German, so doesn’t always get the sympathy. They lost their wealth, their estate of many generations in East Prussia, but that wasn’t the worse part. The worse part was being hungry after the war or not being able to cope. Who knows what it was, but my Grandfather survived being a POW, but he couldn’t survive life after war. People didn’t talk. I don’t know if it is a generational thing, a German thing, a European thing or just war.
And regarding IQ, I hate going by that. I think grades and high IQ mean you are REALLY good at taking tests. Sometimes you are brilliant too, but high IQ does not equal brilliance (in my book ) But, many people, including respected Republicans, happen to think Clinton is brilliant, smart, funny and engaging, and I think they are right. And regarding what does “is” mean. OH GAWD, if you heard that proceding, it was absolutely ridiculous. The questions they were asking!!! Ask a ridiculous question and I bet you’ll get a ridiculous answer. NO, he didn’t want to admit to an affair. What politician would?
maybe I should get back to work?
Betsy (in MD)
…Perhaps the beard is fake and Bin Laden really is a woman and we can skip the sex-change operation idea and just give him a shave–wait noo…
heidi–how on earth did you end up with David Hasselhoff’s saliva in your hair, and for the last time…
FABIO is FOUL 
Yes, yes!! Erin and others, tell me MORE about what was said.
You GO George Bush!!
Anthony Hopkins yes, Tony Blair NO.
As for Dubya’s accent well the poor bastard is a Maine raised Texas redneck with a Yale education. We are all lucky we don’t need subtitles. Maybe someone explained that TERRA= Earth and since the terrorist operate out of caves…
Whoa! I am such a dummie… I definitely should have learned during the great election debate threads that I shouldn’t post and then not check the boards for a few days! Goodness gracious!
Talk about single out and attack IlonE!
I think, perhaps, you did not read my post a)carefully enough, and b)in the light tone I intended to write it in. Rumour monger? Heaven help me… what a sin! I think I made it clear that what I was writing was just the latest inside buzz (and nothing else). I wrote it precisely because I know most of the people out there aren’t in the same working environment and are not subject to the same kind of news as a result.
I certainly don’t apologize for sharing the latest political buzz on current matters. If we were debating the stock market here I would expect someone working in financial services to share the latest spin on the stock market from his/her industry perspective. I simply related what was being said in the Washington political world Thursday night and Friday after the speech. And, GASP, much of the information I related came from 1) conversations with Republican staffers I am friends with (don’t fall over in your chair now!) who work in the offices of some of our (oh, I mean your) most prominent Republican leaders, and 2) reliable political reports that quoted top republican sources (Roll Call newspaper and the National Journal�s �Hotline�).
It’s D.C. for crying out loud! Nothing is done here without people considering the political results. And nothing happens here without people looking at it from a political perspective. Don’t go acting like it’s only democrats who spin things politically… turning everything into politics is something both republicans and democrats here (and everywhere) have a very fine mastery of. The “scoop” I gave could have just as easily been written by a republican (minus the statements of dislike for Bush and Gulianni of course!).
It may come as a huge shock to you, but some of us CAN manage to be thoroughly partisan AND friendly and nice all at the same time! It’s what some call “agreeing to disagree”. SOME of us CAN thoroughly disagree with one another but still have the ability to recognize that our ties as countrymen will always unite us in the end.
Duh… Republicans are Republicans and Dems are Dems… all of us see through different eyes and the different visions we all own aren’t going to change any time soon. America is not about agreeing as you seem (?) to think… America is about embracing diverse viewpoints and coming together (especially in times like these) to work our differences (such as they are) out and reach meaningful and practical compromises. You seem to be saying that all of us “naysayers” (those who hesitate to throw our whole hearted support behind the republican leadership) are horrible deviants. I am very sorry to hear that from you.
I find it very sad to see you so openly filled with contempt and disrespect (and from your posts, I would venture to say hatred) for those who fail to see things the way you do. I don�t understand people like you who, to quote the movie The American President, �Claim they love America but clearly can�t stand Americans.� What do you think makes so many middle eastern terrorists carry out their gross crimes against the western world? They come from cultures that have grown to hate the West, especially or country, for whatever various reasons. Hatred has bred blindness. Blindness has, in turn, bred evil.
All of us in this country are simply different people who think differently, even in great times of crisis and tragedy. As Americans, that is our privilege . And we are all lucky enough to live in a democracy where we are able to question our leaders and have a chance to remove them from office if we so desire. I would bet everything I had that President Bush would agree with me. For while I don’t understand his policies and views most of the time and I don’t particularly wish him to be my president, I don’t doubt for a SECOND that President Bush loves this country and its people (even people like me, who don’t agree with him)in an incredible and very admirable way, and subsequently, I also don’t doubt at all that he will do whatever he believes is best for all of us who live in this great nation.
All right, that’s enough for now. There is just too much to say. I find myself doubting so much of what’s around me these days. What I do know is that I love this country more than I ever, ever knew and I hope against all hope that our elected leaders (both democrat AND republican) carry us through this horrible time without making mistakes that can’t be taken back or fixed or causing too much bloodshed.
May justice be sought for vengeful hearts and peace prevail at the same time.
-rockstar
Justice Kennedy is reputed to have been fond of going out to play golf in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be in his office “being a federal judge.” His response to critics questioning why he wasn’t in chambers working was “If you don’t like it, convene Congress and have them try to boot me. I have life tenure.”
Upon reflection, Bush could adopt a similar theory. He went to Yale, he’s the son of a former president, he is the current president. If he wants to make up words, far be it from me to object!!
RE: welfare state
See, I don’t understand why an upper middle class high-ranking banker with presumably a high-ranking salary should get child care subsidies at the expense of lower middle class struggling workers like me.
I am actually able to live in a decent, not fancy but decent house, and support myself and critters. No health insurance - like many in the US and that’s not good - but under the welfare state, I’d be lucky to live in a one-room tenement, having come from the vet after crying my eyes out while my family was murdered. So someone could have a bigger slice of the $$$$ I work for? And therefore live well off my hard work while I have nothing???
NOT!!
I have to keep reading this thread, it’s part of my job as moderator to keep up on the controversial threads on all the forums. The rest of you don’t. Why don’t you just abandon it? I would like nothing more than for it to drop out of sight. And, let me note, I am speaking as Louise, not as moderator Louise here.
There is too much anger here, too much stubborness, and people have reached a point where listening intelligently to other’s points of view is clearly impossible.
Maybe Erin will close it, I don’t know, though, I doubt it. She has too much faith in the very intrinsic value of freedom of speech to do so.
People are getting hurt, and people are posting without first thinking about what they have written. This thread is painful to read, and the saddest thread that I think I have ever had to deal with.
I’m sorry you have differences, and I’m more sorry that you can’t work them out and see each other for the wonderful and unique individuals you all are.
I am so very disappointed.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Their measure is one of sophistication and good taste, manners and general appearance.
The package is very important to people who make their value judgments based on appearances and perception.
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And those sophisticated and tasteful Europeans were quite fond of our previous president, bless their hearts.
Maybe we need to refer to the Nameless Previous Administration by a symbol, so there won’t be riots on the BB.
Darn, there goes my vow not to take the bait.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
I am one pay check away from that scenario. If my boyfriend lost his job, we’d be sunk. He was planning to buy a new car, but with all the uncertainty, we can’t risk having another expense should ANYTHING go wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct me if I am wrong Magnolia, but you do own a horse?? What will you do if you are laid off?
I ask because when I saw the economy start tanking the first thing I did was sell the horse. Precautionary perhaps but the way things have gone it looks like I have become a visionary.
You’ve been awfully generous to have let us ramble on this far off the original topic, Erin. HeyYouNags, shall we pop over to the other thread, then?
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