Hey, I’m not arguing… it was a very good speech. It just took me a while to figure out that terra = terror. Once I got that figured out, it was smooth sailing. 
Seriously, I did like the speech a lot. Very good.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Where are all the bleeding heart liberals and tree huggers now when you need them? Every 3rd world country has lots of manure from their animals.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Snowbird,
We try. We are told solar and wind energy will never work, that supplementing soil with manure isn’t necessary with agri-chemicals and genetic engineering, people laugh at eco cars - we ask congress to raise the MPG on vehicles, and they back down because Detroit whines about the $$$$ it will cost. They cut grants to researchers studying solar power…
The good thing is is that we tree huggers are a persistant lot ~ but we get laughed at a lot. We get ignored. We have a real hard time competing with big oil and energy companies and “agribusiness”. The funny thing is that when we get regular people on our side, we usually win. So if you want these good things, help out Sierra Club or other groups - sign their petitions, get on mailing lists etc. You needn’t give money or support all of their causes. Also, you want the value of your manure to go up? Support organic farmers. Pay the extra $$$ for their fruits and veggies born of manure instead of chemicals.
Whoa, this is now really off-topic!
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
I’ve been itching to get at this thread all day at work but haven’t had a chance until now (and so sadly, it’s late on Friday night and I am still here).
First. I work in democratic politics. I can’t stand Bush. I spend every moment at work (umm, except for when I check he BB’s that is!) trying to unseat him and his party from the federal government.
BUT, I will say it was a very good speech. He has an excellent speechwriting shop and, though it has taken some time, I think they have finally figured out how to write strong, meaningful speeches that are easy for him to deliver with finesse. It’s all about the simple sentences. Kudos to them for their mastery. Kudos to him for getting it right at last. That was the first time this staunch little dem has looked at him since last January and thought, “THAT’S MY PRESIDENT!” It’s the first time I’ve watched him and not imagined how much better McCain or Gore would have been.
Anyway, I thought I would share the washington political gossip of the day. Word is that the appointment of Tom Ridge is an effort to push Ashcroft out and usher in Ridge as the next VP. The conservatives adore ashcroft, but the Bush admin. is apperantly not very happy. Cheney is not doing well health wise. Bush is good buddies with Ridge, and it’s a way to have a moderate, pro-choice republican from a large state on the ticket without causing huge waves among hard right conservatives (the logic being that they would put aside their normal objections to a moderate, pro-choice VP because of Ridge’s leadership through this saga).
Word is Bush will then appoint gulianni to be attorney general. Can’t stand Gulianni myself, but there’s no denying the incredible role he’s played through this all. there’s also no denying he stands as one of the fiercest prosecuters in american history. the only hitch in this whole thing is if he won’t be up for it health-wise… many say he is really not doing well.
anyway… just wanted to share the scoop of the day! some interesting tidbits i think.
something funny…
I work with a guy who handled a lot of the Advance work in the later years of the clinton admin. and on the Gore campaign. He was telling us in this morning’s staff meeting how Clinton was fanatical about this good luck charm of his… a tiny rare miniature of Lincoln. I did not know this, but Clinton apparently had a weird assasination complex and was just obsessed with making sure someone in his traveling party always had the miniature (Lincoln was also a hero to Clinton whose work Clinton often sought inspiration from). If the miniature couldn’t be found, Clinton would not go on stage or do what he had to do. The guy I work with was saying how all of the advance guys and secret service guys tried to get reproductions done so that they never had to worry about loosing or not having the original. Clinton was never fooled though.
ANYWAY… the point is that the people who handle Bush are probably going to get as many copies of that badge as they can so that they don’t have to worry about Bush going apeshi*t on them when the original gets lost.
Aye yi yi, as if the Gore vs. Bush rehash weren’t bad enough, now we’ve returned to the “Are Equestrians Christian” thread…
Here is my counterpoint to some of those
incredibly long posts above.
Me Democrat. Me atheist/agnostic. Me think Bush talk funny. Me no want cans of whoop-ass opened.
That will probably do as much to change the opinions of those in the Republican, religious, a**-kicking camp as those loooooong posts do to change mine!
HYN, a firm believer in brevity as the soul of wit…
Bush Sr. Apologizes To Son For Funding Bin Laden In '80s
MIDLAND, TX� Former president George Bush issued an apology to his son Monday for advocating the CIA’s mid-'80s funding of Osama bin Laden, who at the time was resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. “I’m sorry, son,” Bush told President George W. Bush. “We thought it was a good idea at the time because he was part of a group fighting communism in Central Asia. We called them ‘freedom fighters’ back then. I know it sounds weird. You sort of had to be there.” Bush is still deliberating over whether to tell his son about the whole supporting-Saddam Hussein-against-Iran thing.
“Uhhh, this is long enough to make anyone’s eyes roll back in their heads, so I’ll shut up now.”
No, hobson! your post did NOT make my eyes roll back in the least. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks. 
If Bush opened a can of whoop a$$ three weeks ago, Tony Blair threw a Hail Mary today. God bless him!! Does he write his own speeches?? The one I heard today was incredible and moving.
SLW
Vineyridge, you refer to your husband as ‘the tenant in the backyard??!!’
It’s your mother.
Milk, bread and potatoes are the backbone of humanity, without them we crumble. Everything else is for the fancy taste buds aaand the feel good section of the brain.
It’s like for riders, the only two things that matter is your head (helmet I hope, because you only get to have one) and your feet so you won’t get them stuck in the stirrups in the event of an emergancy dismount. Everything inbetween is pure vanity and comfort.
Indeed, pt…my best pal is a psychotherapist, and she has many clients whom she describes as needing “slap upside the head” therapy. She rescues a lot of marriages by pointing out the obvious to obtuse couples who think that screaming and name-calling is a good way to make someone respect you more. I would heartily agree that there are a lot of weasly, lazy thinkers who are looking for any excuse for poor behavior.
On the other hand, for many people who aren’t lucky enough to have your personal resources, a therapist is sometimes the only thing standing between them and joblessness/homelessness/suicide. Back in the 80’s the state of PA decided that the mentally ill really just needed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and closed down most of the state mental hospitals–these would be the people who are now wandering around the streets in my downtown neighborhood eating out of my trash, crapping all over themselves and screaming about the giant mosquitoes.
In my new cabinet post, I plan to make a list of starlets who will be shipped off to Afghanistan, to be sacrificed for the greater good. I’m figuring on one Taliban mujahaddin per pair of silicone enhancements. And we’ll toss in a few of those really skinny ones, like Calista Flockheart, if the Afghans will agree. Maybe two or three of those per mujahaddin.
We’ll solve the terrorist problem and improve the state of U.S. arts and entertainment in one swoop.
Elizabeth, I’ll bet CNN or MSNBC will have a transcript by now…
tee hee hee.
Thanks for lightening us up, Fleetie.
Those upstate NY-ers are good people.
I couldn’t agree with you more! And not only for the idealistic reasons you have mentioned, but for more practical ones: I don’t think we will succeed if we proceed unilaterally, and not only that, we stand a very good chance of making things much worse.
Heidi- Since you brought it up, ,read the article below and tell us do you think we Yanks “misunderestimated” our former Pres?
SLW
Boston Globe: Clinton-Lewinsky Affair Complicated Attempts to Get bin Laden
Carl Limbacher
Sept. 21, 2001
President Clinton’s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky may have interfered with his administration’s failed attempts to eliminate Mideast terrorist Osama bin Laden, the Boston Globe reported Friday.
The liberal sister paper of the New York Times also raised questions about whether the ex-president’s reckless personal behavior ultimately contributed to the deaths of 6,700 Americans in last week’s terrorist attacks on the U.S.
“He authorized the attack (on bin Laden) on the same August weekend in 1998 he confessed his affair with Lewinsky to his wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton,” the Globe said.
The paper called the confession of adultery an “added strain” for the president, noting that, “Some wonder whether he wasn’t distracted by the legal and political quagmire of the Monica S. Lewinsky case” at the time he launched 75 cruise missiles into Sudan and Afghanistan.
“He met with national security and military advisers to plan the attacks between sessions with lawyers to prepare for his (Lewinsky) grand jury testimony,” the Globe said.
“I think it is entirely possible that was a distraction,” said Massachusett’s Senator John Kerry, referring to Clinton’s attempts to juggle his Lewinsky cover-up with military efforts to take out the terrorist who would later prove so deadly to U.S. civilians.
Others disagreed. Former Clinton national security official Nancy Soderberg insisted to the Globe that her ex-boss was able to “compartmentalize” the Lewinsky sex scandal while mapping out a strategy to get bin Laden.
She did not cite the best known example of Clinton’s ability to compartmentalize sex and national security: a 1995 Oval Office phone call where he discussed troop deployment to Bosnia with Rep. Sonny Callahan.
The conversation was carried out while Ms. Lewinsky performed a sex act on the president.
As Clinton desperately tried to cover-up his affair with the young intern, the legal fight to preserve his presidency took up more and more of his time, staffers admitted. Meanwhile other issues like the war on terrorism were relegated to the back burner.
“Clearly, not enough was done,” said Jamie Gorelick, a former deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration. “We should have caught this. Why this happened, I don’t know. Responsibilities were given out. Resources were given. Authorities existed. We should have prevented this.”
Even Soderberg, who declined to blame the Lewinsky scandal for the failure to get bin Laden, confessed that Clinton’s war on terrorism was never the priority it should have been.
“In hindsight, it wasn’t enough, and anyone involved in policy would have to admit that,” she told the Globe
Canada certainly isn’t a picture of perfection - politically, economically, socially, or otherwise.
Provincially, our government has slashed through the budgets of public schools, universal health care, though ‘free’ also entails a year-long waiting list for simple procedures like MRIs; and many cancer patients, among them one of my best friends, have to live in Buffalo for endless months in order to receive chemotherapy or radiation therapy. Doctors’ and nurses’ salaries are also capped in this country and thus we suffer through a brain-drain contiuum as many flee to the U.S. where one is able to earn more and keep more.
There is an increase in the working poor and homelessness; and a full quarter of this country’s children live under the poverty level.
We have as many reactionary yahoos as the States; thankfully, though, they’re usually not armed. We are as capable as anyone to engage in hate and racism. A 16-year-old Pakistani boy in Ottawa was beaten by a group of teenagers following September 11 and left unconscious for five hours on the ground - only to be found by his mother who’d started roaming the streets looking for her son.
Paying 50+% income tax rates, 15% sales tax on every good and service purchased, increased property taxes, you’d think the coffers of the provincial and federal governments would be adequately stuffed to take care of the needs of ALL Canadians. Clearly, not the case.
And I can only speak to my own opinions but, as heavily taxed as we are, I’ve never thought to blame welfare mothers and visible minorities for this state of heavily-taxed affairs.
We as Canadians, though, do enjoy a sense of social security that is perhaps less common in the States. Imperfect, yes, but we can all seek medical care. University tuitions are subsidized/capped so it is possible for most to attend a good university for roughly $3,500/yr. Most of my friends have never seen a gun and find some of the ballyhooed Constitutional amendments rather baffling.
And we share the freedom of our neighbours to the south in engaging in political ‘bashing’ - Dubya has nothing on Jean Poutine.
This has been for the most part a very good thread! One that reflects the freedoms that we may have taken for granted previously. There are differing views here, for sure, and on the part of…hmmm (how to say this tactfully?)…two posters in particular, a tendency to see the world in terms of black and white rather than in a complex series of grays, a view shared by most others. Those who choose to take the view that something is either one way or another and nothing in between tend to overlook points of agreement with those who have decided that things are not so simple.
There is plenty of agreement here–terrorists are BAD, killing innocent victims is WRONG, there is strong support for TAKING ACTION against the terrorists and those who support them.
Points of disagreement have to do with the level of responsibility that can be attributed to governments and individuals for policies that predictably or unwittingly create conditions that foster the fanatical and vicious levels of hatred that terrorists embrace. There are those of us who consider that an effort to analyse the possible results of a series of policies, taking into account how they are perceived by non-Western interests is not entirely out of line (grandmother-speak translation: “a stitch in time saves nine…”) Others simply do not see this as a valid approach, and unfortunately, have expressed their opinion in a rather patronizing way…
This does not make the discussion which has taken place here less valuable, but is simply a reflection of how difficult it is to bridge gaps of mutual understanding, even among those who are generally in agreement on wider points–the same difficulties are faced by organizations such as the UN, NATO, EEC, and by the way, the Congress of the United States of America (not to mention USET / USAE-AHSA). This is life. Shutting down a discussion of it will not serve to improve the chances of solving its problems.
Go Snowbird!
Interesting articles, but my overwhelming reaction to the one on Europe’s reaction to Pres. Bush is amazement at how little the Europeans seem to know about the US. Obviously there’s a lot more to us than they’ve gleaned from cowboy and action movies.
BTW, living in cowboy country I can affirm that the vast majority are polite, hardworking, underpaid and underestimated people.
Hobson - why would you enjoy Baxter Black?? You’ve probably never had a muley cow drop dead in the pen before the auctioneer could get her sold! 
and I was sailing along with you
until you stated 2 points:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Admittedly, we may not even have been aware of the effects of our actions or inactions on this global travesty, but, nevertheless, we are culpable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you implying that the US is somehow responsible for everything that happens on the planet whether we know about it or not? Whether it actually affects us or not?
Sounds like paternalism to me - and I seem to remember the US being slammed on this thread for interference in the affairs of other nations.
So - we’re damned if we do and we’re damned if we don’t?
The term culpableimplies guilt. Guilt is not what I feel - shock, yes. Outrage, yes. Determination, yes. Guilt…no.
[QUOTE]if we are to survive, we must promote tolerance, understanding, and acceptance no matter the cost [/QUOTE
Uhhhhh…really? No matter what the cost?
What if the cost is
*massive loss of jobs and industry resulting in below poverty living for a majority of our population?
*establishment of permanent military law or other massive changes in our governmental system resulting in loss of Constitutional government
*military takeover of our country by any other country
*military policing of our country by any other country or countries
*women losing their right to work, own property, have higher education or live without the supervision of a male relative
*women being required to wear full-length schmaates on the few occasions they are allowed to leave their sequestered living quarters
*destruction of our agricultural lands
*despotic rule by a government of religious fanatics
It has all happened in Afghanistan.
It has happened in other countries at times when various civilizations failed and entered periods known as Dark Ages.
It can happen here if our will and our courage are unequal to the task of maintaining our freedoms.
Okay, I’ll wander over, too. Last one in this thread, please turn off the lights.
