Vineyridge, I love the word “fracas.” It’s just not used enough.
BEQS clique. With elbows in!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
See, this is what’s starting to worry me. Everyone is so gung-ho that we hurry up and bomb someone, and you’re perceived as being unpatriotic or unsupportive if you’re saying, “Hey, wait a second… are we sure this is what we want to do?”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly Erin! That has been very noticeable to me here and in the news in general in the last week or so - any signs of patience or caution seem to be viewed as unsuportive and wimpy 
Too many people are too quick to judge what someone else’s idea of patriotism is.
Not to mention the accents! good lord Erin, I could hear that midwest twang of yours even in your writing! I agreed with your “speech”, but didn’t understand every word 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kryswyn:
One might excuse her from being less than “Oh YEAH! Let’s go kill some ragheads!”
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and some people with BIG opinions should READ the thread and others like it. Several times that sentiment (NOT MINE if you’ve read the attack related threads) has been ascribed to young people (which I am not) who have commited senseless hate crimes, or dropped whatever they were doing on 9/11 and raced to the recruiter’s office. It was an example of what might have characterized the 34 (or so) standing ovations the President got. Sort of like the title of this thread Bush opens up can of whoop a$$. Clear on that now??
Then your statement that Bill Clinton is responsible for the increase in oral sex in kids had me ROTFLMAO. So kids are having more oral sex now? Trust me, it’s only cause somebody thought to ask the question! People didn’t TALK about it prior to the 70’s. BTW no girl (who told the truth!) ever got pregnant and no boy (who told the truth) ever sired a child while having oral sex. So, for me, better oral sex than sorry! Come to think of it (pun intended) neither did MONICA LEWINSKI who was just having a nice romantic affair until her republican friend with a vengence decided to break the law and rat on her.
As for Laura being on Oprah…Sorry none of my friends watch it. We were all working, where a majority of mothers are these days. And if you don’t think Laura acts as a sounding board for her husband, you should think again. I understand your husband was in Special Forces and may have been prohibited from telling you the details of his missions, and if he complied, mazel tov for him. Of course it’s nothing you’d have really wanted to know either. But it takes a rare person a) not to tell his/her spouse something of such import that is disturbing to them; or b) a person with a really good therapist. Since we really frown on having our elected officials see therapists, I guess we should be glad they can confide in their heavily protected spouses.
As for your remarks about the apparently soon-to-be sainted Richard Nixon, the point here is that he abused the government, and used its powers to break the law for personal reasons. Bill Clinton was having a consensual affair.
Whether you think he is an empty suit or not, Bill Clinton is an ex-president of this country and due all the respect and decorum of that position. I take exception to your remark “probably because he was afraid for his own butt”. If that had been the case, he’d have STAYED in Australia. One plane in the sky (even w/ fighter escorts - if he had them) is a far better/easier target than “somewhere in the Outback”.
Finally you said: “You can debate R vs D as long as you want. I want to see when you will focus on the reality that this is a war of freedom vs. terrorism, leadership vs. posturing and right vs. wrong.”
Of course it’s freedom vs. terrorism. Duh. Leadership vs Posturing? All politicians posture, all are leaders of some degree and ability. Presidents are made by events beyond their control and their reaction to them. George is doing very well so far. Ask me in 10 years when inflation has skyrocketed, US casualties are counted in the tens of thousands, and we are living in a state of seige because terrorism is like Medusa. Cut off one snake’s head and another grows. Right vs. wrong? That is really too big an issue for a beautiful Sunday afternoon. There have been so many “rights” that have been “wronged”: the innocents killed in the attacks; the starving, homeless Afghani’s who are in this mess in part because we put bin Laden on the payroll sometime back.
~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
There is no plan to destroy anyone but the terrorists. We don’t want to occupy Afghanistan and the plans so far on the table are not only intelligent but with luck can effectively be the whole mission.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can only surmise that you did not read what I wrote. I am not now, nor have I in the past, wasted a moment’s worth of brain cells on the possibility of our impending invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. It has never been an option we have considered. To sum up concisely… No duh… That is NOT where the danger lies.
And quite frankly, I am less worried about killing innocent citizens in countries sponsoring terrorism than I am in creating a set of foreign policy circumstances that could lead to more loss of lives in THIS country. However, please don’t interpret this to mean that I want to go forth like Rambo, with a complete disregard for these lives, it’s just that I am human, and my family, friends, countrymen and allies are instinctively who I want to protect first.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, to blame this all on economics and our previous indescretions is futile and unnecessary at this point in time. I just finished listening to interviews from Afghanistan the confirm what I said earlier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If by some incredible feat you thought we could jump in our little time machine, and somehow change things, may I take this moment to say that is not a delusion I shared. But to not heed the lessons of the past… Is this what you were trying to say? I confess to total shock, if for no other reason than you spend a lot of time on this board telling us how grand and glorious the past used to be.
No, we cannot change that which has already happened. Whoever is to blame, what has come to pass, has come to pass. But it is not overstating the obvious to say that those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
starlady, I agree - we cannot abandon our friends and allies - that is simply not an option. And, I have to say I have a whole new appreciation of the predicament Israel is in, as it relates to making a necessary concession, and worrying that it may be misinterpreted as a concession wrung out of a terrorist attack. I thought I understood that tricky path before, but I have a much more personal appreciation for it today.
That being said, I would honestly hope that Arafat and Sharon would spend 30 minutes together every week, even if the topic was no more enlightening than how incredibly “weather-like” the weather was today. And I wish that development on the West Bank would stop. I can see where any other actions would appear to be dangerous precedent to unworthy concessions, but these two actions would be a small slap in the face of terrorism. And they would have to come from Israel and Arafat. If any dictate came from the US or the UN, it would not serve the same purpose.
NP Fisher - yes, the thing is, that I was not particularly well-versed in the foreign policy of Pakistan. I have a pretty good base of knowledge about some of the older events (partition, Kashmir, etc.), but most of what I have written here has been learned in the last few weeks. It doesn’t get spoon fed to you by the media (to M.O’C’s point about a declining foreign desk), but there are sources that have invested in foreign correspondents - you just have to know where to find them.
And I also recommend www.janes.com - another great source of information, and not from an american perspective, which provides some balance.
Heidi - other than an expressed wish for an “economic and social system that would allow mothers to stay at home” I don’t even know what system you favor.
And I have followed this thread continuously.
Funny, always thought my reading comprehension skills were good - maybe the ideas expressed are so foreign that I’m just not registering them.
Please, humor me - instead of just telling me how clear it all is to all of you.
The world is a dangerous place isn’t it, NP Fisher when an innocent pigeon can’t ride in a roller coaster without the threat of errant Fabio’s hurtling through the air.
If this isn’t eerie, don’t know what is: Fabio…peeps…pigeons. Someone, please consult your Nostradamus and shed light on this phenomena.
Why Betsy, I thought you would rush to join us in keeping impure mentions of a (eek!) sexual nature off our clean and pure BB! 
My point is that oral sex has absolutely nothing to do with anything. So why is it that it keeps coming up? Hmm?
Frankly, I’m sick of hearing about Clinton. I don’t know why people who claim to despise him and his actions so much can’t stop talking about them.
Bush embarrasses me for many, many reasons, but in the interest of standing firmly behind the leader of our great nation, I won’t burden you with them.
Besides, as I’ve said, oh, about a dozen times, I think Bush is doing a decent job on this issue.
And Snowbird, who here is overlooking office transgressions? Who here is even TALKING about office transgressions? There seem to be a lot bigger issues to discuss.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So, here in the northeast at least, they pull all the bright ones out and put them in a separate class never to be heard from again until they are properly conditioned. Then they take to slow ones and put them in their own group where they can be A Students. Those middlers then are the real class, and if you have a deviant individualist who is not too bright then you medicate them so they will conform.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OMG, Snowbird, I do believe we have agreement on this one!!! Yup, if they don’t fall into line, hit 'em up with the Ritalin (which is as bad of a drug as illegal cocaine). Yup, just say no to drugs, by the way Timmy, time for your pill. Poor kids. Then, when they get to college (anyone can get into a state college), they can’t do basic algebra or make a graph without having their hands held.
I truly do not blame the kids, or not really even the parents or the system. It seems like we spend too much time patting them on the back and don’t challenge them enough. It really is good enough to be mediocre in school. Everyone wants A’s, but want an easy A. I’ll never forget the parent who complained to my mom. Apparently, a 4 page (hand written, big line paper, include a picture) “research paper” on a topic such as Micheal Jordan or horses was too much for a 6th grade HONORS english class! Mom and Pop complained, and henceforth, no more paper for the class.
Sorry for being totally off topic!
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
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pt, this really has to stop. How can we go on like this, agreeing about some stuff?
Actually, I think most of those make a lot of sense, and are advocated by us little devils in the subversive left. I still think that we should remain open to international military engagement for humanitarian purposes (like, I think we REALLY should have done something to save tens of thousands of Rwandans from being brutally hacked to death, and I was saying in 1996 that taleban needed to be stomped on, but that’s just me talking). The trouble with that is when those in power twist the meaning of “humanitarian” to mean protecting the interests of US multinationals abroad and such.
or at world rates, of course they’re not. But even with those stats (which does show a decline in us rates to 6.8), most western european countries are between 4 and 5, and canada is at 5 (yes, some provinces are higher but that is because of some regions being poorer than others, not because they have privatized medicine)…can the us really claim their medical system works better? are they satisfied with that rate of infant death?
oh and by the way, Cuba is just over 7 despite the prolonged period of US embargo…
I don’t get you Jumpinghigh… what is it you want?
People holding hands in a circle simultaneiously singing Kumbuyah and waving banners with “bomb the bastards” on them? With interjections of “USA USA!”
You seem to get upset at the slightest sign that someone does not 1000% agree with either you or the government.
Well, BIG NEWS: people will always discuss politics, even more so in a crisis!!!
Look at any old news articles, programs or even plays that were about any of the other major wars or crisis situations - I bet you they will have political content in them! I remember my parents making comments about Churchill’s speech declaring Britain was at war - they didn’t agree with everything he said! So what is different now?
We are not the lemmings you (and others) seem to want us to be, following blindly, without questioning actions that will surely affect all of us in some way or another.
I think the point of the disrespecting is meant to imply if we didn’t have some disrespect now and then, we might be having high tea instead of Happy hour.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pt:
What a thread!
I’m just back after 4 days at a horsemanship clinic. Got back on the big guy after 18 months of illness and accidents - no-one was discussing news or world terrorism, we were all more interesting in getting a “soft feel” (nothing to do with sex) and learning more about selves and horses and the interrelationship.
It was a lovely time out of time.
The world and its problems are still here, of course, but the mental and emotional break has left me feeling much more able to live in it without the depression of the prior week.
I recommend such a break highly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
pt–I have been following this thread closely, and, I think, learning a lot in the process. But I haven’t been moved to respond until now when your post really struck a chord with me. I know some people who are consumed to the point of near paralysis by the events of 9/11–I’m talking beyond the point of where I think the majority of the posters here are right now of contemplating, discussing, even arguing about this. The people I know are hardly able to function and deeply depressed… Your words about trying to get out and get some other perspectives whether it be by spending time with our horses or even just going to dinner are timely and I appreciate them!! Thank you!
(This is NOT to say I advocate going the other route and pretending nothing has happened! Also, this is not directed at the posters here AT ALL…I am sure we all know of someone out there who is taking this exceptionally hard and needs our help to cope.)
I think you should feel honored that some people actually want to know what you think!
BTW, DMK - It was a pleasure reading your well punctuated epic.
OK - onward to important things in life. My daughter just came back downstairs, after having “gone to bed” at 8:45 this evening. She misses “Remmie”. 
I have sent her back to bed with a small photo album I have recently put together with lots of pictures of our four-footed friends who live and have lived under our roof. The others are in their own album. Hopefully, this will help comfort her.
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JParkes, funny you should mention it… NBC News is just about to do a segment on how people are protecting themselves.
Personally, I think most of the things that could potentially happen are beyond any individual’s ability to prevent. I don’t think having a gun in the house is going to help. A gas mask, maybe… do they make those for horses? Have to say, I’m not fond of living so close to the nation’s capital at this point…
I found another interesting article today, explaining more of the reasons why this isn’t going to be as simple as just “taking out” Bin Laden:
SLW, I’m willing to give Kellybird the benefit of the doubt and assume that she is quite able to think for herself without resort to mimicry.
I don’t believe that adherence to a familial set of principles is necessarily a bad thing, so long as each individual forms his/her opinions after much personal and independent reflection, consideration, and study. Following blindly the political, social, and moral views of those who exert influence over us is not an admirable or desirable trait in a free-thinking society.
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If Hobson and PT are still agreeing on things, the planets must be in alignment today!
Glad to see people are continuing with lively discussion while ignoring the trolls, like good little BBers should.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pt:
That’s why I truly believe that we need to step back and out, defend our own borders and citizens, and let other nations figure out their own policies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
PT, I agree with that for the most part… I don’t feel like we should tell other countries what to do. But what about situations like Nazi Germany? Not that we got involved in that until we had to, either…
I dunno… I feel like it would be nice if the US could use its considerable might to try to stop serious human rights violations. But it seems, more often that not, that causes as many problems as it solves.
sigh
