Bush opens up a can of whoop a$$

Karen Armstrong is on the NPR show Fresh Air RIGHT NOW! She is a completely brilliant scholar of religion, and is talking about Qutb and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. Very good! To tune in on your 'puter, go to WHYY here:

http://www.whyy.org/91FM/live.html

Some public radio stations air Fresh Air twice a day - try to catch it later if you can’t listen now, or check out the archived NPR shows on their web site for other Armstrong appearances on Fresh Air.

Whoops, just realized that this might be an old show that WHYY is airing now - they are doing a membership drive, so if you are not in the Philly area, you may be getting a different Fresh Air.

Before last week, I would have joked that Bush was going to discuss “strategery” in his speech with a picture of Will Ferrell from SNL in my head. No more, though. Bush is really starting to impress me- which is quite a feat considering I’m a pretty liberal Democrat.

I think last night’s speech, as well as the reaction from Congress, made it clear that in this situation, there are no Democrats, no Republicans- only Americans.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
It appears from the news tonight there will be no serious problem. All the innocent Afghans will be lined up at the borders and Bin Laden and his buddies will be all alone somewhere in the middle of Afghanistan.

The Saudi have now condemned these sociopaths as traitors to Islam. There you go! You never know when your wishes can come true.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No serious problem, eh? It’s as simple as avoiding the perimeter of Afghan? Damn, I’m glad it’s that simple - here I was thinking it was going to be a long drawn out process that could cost American lives. Round up the troops boys, we are headin’ home!

Newsflash: The Saudis did not condemn the Taliban as traiters to Islam, they severed ties with the government of Afghanistan.

It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out they were going to do that. This is the government which openly invited US troops onto its soil during the Gulf War (we are still there), and - oops - really has NO love for their former citizen, Osama bin Laden… Yeeees, as it turns out he was exiled from THAT country waaaaay back in '94 for terrorist acts against Saudi Arabia. That they were the last country (notwithstanding Pakistan) to openly condemn the Taliban and sever ties with the government says a lot about how carefully they had to manuever around this issue to keep the anti-american sentiment at home from boiling over.

On a different note, I too have found my barn routine to be incredibly helpful, although I was in no mood to ride on the 11th, and before I saddled up on the 12th, I totally lost my temper with my poor dog (for doing something he does EVERY day). So after that, feeling about as low as the underbelly of a flea, I figured I’d do myself a favor and not tangle with 1200 pounds of horse

Single mothers? Socialism? Moms and Grandmothers who are the bedrock of society? As this relates to foreign policy?

I confess, I am in awe Snowbird. I dub thee “Queen of Tangentalism”.

But all the same, you don’t mind if I opt out of the “your children” club? I’m pretty sure my parents would take exception, never mind my grandparents.

Kellybird - I love you too!

What was that, DMK? It’s hard to hear you, my child, from way up here in the halls of superiordom.

(pssst! I forgot to mention the trashy supermarket mystery hidden under all of that!)

by the way, DMK, can I blame you for the way my auto insurance company is jerking us around trying to avoid paying a settlement for Mr Hobson’s loss of his spleen and very expensive bicycle to an uninsured driver?

No one should feel so badly that their sensitivies get offended . No should feel like taking their game pieces and going home ok?
I would really like Heidi to rethink her voluntary withdrawal.She is at least fun has a sense of humor clever thing that she is!I don’t come here to get worked up everytime I come here to laugh or to learn something fun and interesting !
I personally have found certain posts very snotty and condescending but hey I don’t have to read it more than once to realize that some people are just snotty and cranky .
I have to be careful or Mary and Heidi will tease me about my bad typing spelling and anything else .

Ilona you really need to calm down ok ? practice DEEP breathing repeat a buddhist mantra or something! In otherwords please lighten up for crikes sakes!Haven’t recent events shown us all that life is really too short to be sucked down into this trivial squabbling over what an opinion? ?
Where oh where is Heidi kins ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inverness:
SLW, I’m willing to give Kellybird the benefit of the doubt and assume that she is quite able to think for herself without resort to mimicry.

I don’t believe that adherence to a familial set of principles is necessarily a bad thing, so long as each individual forms his/her opinions after much personal and independent reflection, consideration, and study. Following blindly the political, social, and moral views of those who exert influence over us is not an admirable or desirable trait in a free-thinking society.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto what she said!

“Life is too short to drink bad wine.”

My father served in the Army Air Corps in WWII which was the Air Force back then. He never spoke much of the details of war. But what he did speak about, often and tirelessly, was the pride in this country that the war left him with. We are so lucky, he would say. He’d seen the lifestyles in remote parts of the world, and he was adament that we should never take this country for granted.

He never flew again after the War. Even though he lived another 55 years, and even if he needed to travel for business, it was always by car or train. Strange for a man who spent several years of his life aboard airplanes.

Clearly the war left him with a fear that he internalized and lived with for the rest of his life. Maybe counseling would have helped him get past his fear, but it was part of his psyche that he had no desire to mess with. And of course, he had no need to travel across the ocean. He was quite happy to stay in the States forever, where anywhere he needed to be could be reached on the ground

I so wish he was still with us to see the great burst of patriotism. And I wish I could get his read on the whole situation, as he was such a smart guy and a great teacher.

Sorry for rambling, but this thread has reminded me that his war diaries are still in the house somewhere. I will find them and read them with a new awareness now.

“Always speak your mind, but ride a fast horse” – Texas Bix Bender

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
Quote:
And, if we isolated ourselves, our cheap oil might dry-up and we’d have to do something crazy like invent a clean car that runs on hemp, and then we’d have to let people grow hemp and it would mess up our drug war and people would go crazy.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did ya see that article in the Post about the kids who drove across the country & back in a Mercedes fueled by Hemp Oil?

There was also quote by the head of the DEA (I think that’s who it was) and it was “Hemp is Marijuanna”

Betsy (in Md.)

Don’t assume malice for what stupidity can explain.

we ended up at the ER because the EMT at the show thought the end of my poor Anna’s finger might have been crushed off, need stitches, etc…but the nurses just mushed it back together with gauze and a bandaid.

that we lower a giant bowl of honey into the middle of Afghanistan?

Afghanis crawl in to eat, and they can’t get out!

Thank you snowbird! What a wonderfully articulate, well-versed minister. I enjoyed reading it very much.

Jess

Apparently she is unable to see that when a disaster of such unbelieveable, mind-boggling magnitude occurs; when instantly you realize that the world has changed, but you just don’t know how you will be affected yet, it is often impossible to grasp the entire event. As a coping mechanism, the mind turns to something it can grasp, usually something trivial, like an accent, or choice of tie, or figure of speech to carp on, because thinking of the enormous tradegy that has occurred cannot be endured. This is not true just in the aftermath of 9/11 but often after the death of a loved one (I can still recall my mother complaining about a spot on the suit she wanted my father cremated in. Hello? He’d been sick for MONTHs and hadn’t worn the suit for a year prior, yet Mom b*tched for a week after the fact like Dad should’ve been more careful w/ the mustard… Totally avoiding the fact that her husband of 46 years was being cremated w/o clothes anyway!)

If IloneE would actually read the posts she would see that most of the nitpicking about Dubya happened very early and has been replaced with excellent discussion now that 2 weeks have passed and we can begin to get our minds around this subject.

Of course, I have noticed she has nothing of substance to add to this discussion and is still trying to defend her rabid condemnation of whole groups with conflicting rhetoric…

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

in the Hague and “war crimes” tribunals of various sorts were set up by the international community after WWI and WWII to provide legal fora (forums) for transnational/international incidents. The mechanisms are in place. The trial of the Lockerby bombers proves that. The problem is getting the cooperation of the sovereign states harboring those who are wanted for specific incidents.

What’s interesting to me is that we are focusing so hard on the Afghanis, when more than half of the WTC/Pentagon terrorists are listed as Saudi nationals. Bin Laden himself is a Saudi. The Taliban may be harboring and training terrorists, but Saudi Arabia is the prime breeding ground for the anti-American fanatics.

You missed the point - but I know you wanted to so we’ll just let that go by. My husband is a VIP to me, but he’s been able to be involved in parts of the world many people haven’t - and much of what is written simply isn’t true and first hand experiences are always better and more accurate than people sitting at a typewriter making observations on the world without experience.

BTW - the most influential woman in my life was my maternal grandmother. Couldn’t read or write - no books on her nightstand. But she came here alone at 13 from the Ukraine and owned her own business and was a truly gifted woman when it came to life, morality and what was important. Now how would all of you rate her??

People are fortunately free to go and live where ever they want. If you seek long vacations and the lifestyle of what you perceive is all over Germany - then why not go live there?? We seem to have a lot on this BB with more and more about what’s wrong with America…I guess my grandparents came here because of what was very right about the place. Yes I believe in Capitalism - a free market is the ultimate freedom and always offers so much more to people in all socio-economic levels.

Wonderfully put, Hobson!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Damn the politicians and their political stylists for forcing upon us a polarization on the basis of party affiliations; and creating in the ethos of the culture such sharp rancour.

And damn those who can’t recognize people for how they are without the need to denounce them as tree-hugging democrats or gun-toting republicans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen!

bgoosewood I am truly sorry if I sound mean, it is perhaps because I am concerned and care so much.

You see we 've had some of these debates and agreed with some of the premises proposed here, and, lived to see that in the extreme view they had flaws.

I think most of the Republicans are really anti-establishment because they want control of their own lives, “Individualism means that”.

Individualism can sound mean because it sounds as if it means we are opposed to being part of a collective. This is why so many times America has been accused of isolationism, and yet it participaates wholeheartedly in all the needs of the 3rd world to a point of showing a preference for it as opposed to our own citizens.

Symantics tend to dramatize a situation in ways perhaps it shouldn’t. Whenever we try to make generalized simplistic statements they can be taken as different than the real intentions. There is in every group extremists who somehow manage to become the definition of the group.

My intention is not to maternalize the next generations but rather to some how explain that these debates have been had and won, but the extentions of the original hypothesis has not worked out as it should.

For example in the above subject of students and education. I don’t believe there was major conspiracy to dumb down America. I do believe that well intentioned people thought that it would healthier if children had a homogenous environment. They really had the conviction that it was better for the children.

Now we need to re-examine the ideas, put them with what worked in the past and come to a compromise that might be better for the children yet to be educated.

Sure, the frontier people were coarse and tough and they made mistakes. I had a project a while back and thought that this industry might be the perfect place for native Americans. Their skill with horses and their reverence for the earth I thought would make them compatible with our needs.

And, I hired two Apaches. It was one of the most revealing experiences because I became good friends with one. Randy was the classic image of the native American. Sparkling perfect white teeth and a very gentle nature.

One day when we were talking he mentioned how he never understood why we as white people called him a “Red Man”. He thought that in reality their complexion is more related to those from Korea or even the Eskimos, or perhaps the Pacific peoples.

Then he spent a summer in Arizona on the Reservation and one afternnon he and his cousin were sitting on a rock talking and suddenly he looked at his cousin and said “You really are red”. It was sunset and the red sun reflected on their skin. That was the picture those back east got from the reports sent back by the Cavalry.

Now, I can tell you, and I know that Randy would agree with me that when he consumed “firewater”, alcohol he had a short temper and a very quick response to any misunderstood remark. That would account for the fear they may have engendered in the early colonists. I cannot and will not justify our stealing their land.

There is now a lady who proves my belief that one person can make a difference. A young native American fortunate enough to go to college took on the USA, and all by herself is on the verge of winning a huge settlement for the tribes, long overdue, but better late than never.

Please don’t misunderstand my positions, and please don’t reinterpret them as opposition. Just as those who survived the holocaust can testify as witnesses, and the soldiers who found them can certify there was a holocaust When they are all gone and you can’t see them or hear them in person it may be possible to convince some that there was never a holocaust, and therefore no reason for the State of Israel.

I believe we all agree much more than we disagree on principles, but we do disagree on the methods for solving the problems. My intention is to witness how we got where we are not because we were perfect or made all the right decisions just so you can understand what the reasoning was for the actions we took.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]from Patrick Henry?

Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation?

For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[/B]

Our Founding Fathers had a great idea! It’s not perfect but it is by far the best there has ever been. So please forgive my flag waving and my complete patriotism for a civilization under attack.

I too believe that what we have to fear is what will happen if we do nothing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pt:
Well, I’m a big believer in the “gut-it-out” school, too. And no believer at all in psychotherapy, psychiatric social workers, psychologists or psychiatrists. Seems to me, the emphasis in those fields is on “psycho” and the practioners are the best examples. But that’s JMHO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heidi, I also have a schizophrenic in the family. Ironically, pt, my Uncle Frank would agree with you. He believes that his medications and therapy really interfere with his natural ability to resist the secret radio waves that the Soviets are beaming into his brain. He also thinks that if he was not hospitalized, he could better get even with the parish priest and family dog who conspired to kill his mother. He thinks an aluminum-foil helmet would serve him better than all the psychiatrists.

Do you also believe that cancer patients or pneumonia sufferers should “gut it out” as well, or are you just skeptical that the brain is vulnerable to disease?

Tofu is one of my favorite foods, but frankly, soymilk is awful, except for Silk brand chocolate and eggnog flavor. But that costs $9000.00. That stuff in the septic packs is so gross, but my honey loves it.

OOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo, while were talking about wholesome food, my grocery store is carrying these awesome things called Vegitinos that are soy meat balls. Tasty tasty treat!

OK, now I’m really off topic. OOOooo, not quite, they dropped vegetarian food in afghanistan. Probably the tempeh patties the military troops refused to eat, so they had to get rid of it…

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

am only on page 16 and it is really spooky reading…