…but, how will our “system” of health care function if such exposures become commonplace? It’s pretty clear that early treatment is very desirable…but the way the system is set up, waiting till a condition is advanced and then seeking ER care is the common practice for the uninsured, and for the insured, “unnecessary” care is discouraged by most HMO plans, where “better safe than sorry” type logic does not seem to apply! Also, I’m wondering if that pesky formulary of mine includes Cipro on its list…
Robby Johnson (aka Robbie Williams)… Sorry, my family done sold the farm in Arkansass (Hope, Home of the Giant Watermelons!) after the Big War, when Dubya and all the other young’uns decided to move up Nawth… But if you’re ever in New York, give me a holler; we can ride around Central Park and run over joggers (it’s legal!).
PS: A young John McCain, yes… Blair, I still don’t get.
What would Captain Picard do?
Stuff we agree on:
EVERYODY is mourning for the victims and their families.
EVERYBODY feels for the rescue workers and the people of New York, DC and PA.
EVERYBODY is horrified at this catastrophe.
EVERYBODY wants the organization responsible to be held accountable.
EVERYBODY hopes for a timely resolution to the anti-terrorist effort, while realistically expecting it to be a difficult struggle.
NOBODY wants more innocent people to die as a result of our retaliation.
NOBODY envies George Bush his job right now.
People naturally DISAGREE on stuff like:
*What we perceive as reasonable options for response.
*Acceptable costs of response (as in, how many dead Americans, Afghanis, Iraqis, Brits, etc will we be willing to brush aside as necessary sacrifices)
*The current administration’s grasp on the complexity of the events and ramifications of how we choose to retaliate.
*To what extent we are willing to forego certain civil liberties for a greater sense of security.
*How much we can trust fellow Americans of middle eastern descent, or who are wearing turbans or burqa.
*The meaning of national unity, the meaning of patriotism, what a flag signifies, how the world perceives the US.
*Why it happened. Garden-variety anti-americanism? Payback time for the marginalized victims of globalization? Fundamentalism gone berzerk? Megalomania? Somewhere in between?
Well, color me a raving lunatic lefty, but from where I stand, there are a zillion different angles to this event. The US’s next move will be a bit like knocking the next domino over and trying to guess at which way the rest of the tiles are going to fall among several different possibilities. Will the line come to a neat, elegant conclusion, will it come back to kick us in the ass, or will it putter around somewhere in between?
IloneE…
I can’t help it. I am trying really hard not to take the offense you intended in your post, but you definitely hit me where it hurt. I spent a good portion of my college career devoted to working for various political causes instead of “hanging out” and being devoted to schoolwork like the rest of my normal friends. When you insult what I do, I take it pretty hard because I often question if I wouldn’t have been better off just enjoying “the college experience” and waitressing or something like everyone else until it was time to graduate and join the private sector. I’ve always put aside those doubts because I knew I was working for causes I believed in and that I was making a difference, even if it was very small. The way you so coldly dismiss public servants and politics stings. Congrats.
In one post you call those (including me) in politics “egolomaniacs” who need to be rooted by voters “out of the beltway” so that they can get a “real job”. You also call politicians and their aids “the worst leaders”. But then you say in another post “the good people in public service”. It must be the the evil Washington fumes getting to my head, but I don’t follow.
Where/how do you seperate politicians from public servants from “egolomaniacs” inside the beltway??
And by all means, explain what about me being involved in politics makes me an egolomaniac? Damn me for seeing flaws in our government and wanting to take an ACTIVE role in fixing the holes and making the whole thing better instead of just complaining about it or wanting to do away with the whole thing all together. I came to Washington for two reasons. (1)It’s a gorgeous city steeped in history and American beauty that I fell in love with the moment I first drove across the Potomac and into Washington’s arms via the Memorial Bridge. (2)I had (and have!) a deep love and appreciation for this country’s governing system and I knew that I had to get involved in american government.
The role I have chosen (and there were hundreds of options ranging from policy making to public opinion assesing) has involved working to elect to and keep in federal and local offices men and women I believe in as policy makers and leaders.
It’s certainly not the money (most jobs in politics NOT on the corporate side, i.e. lobbying, pay dirt), power (only the few and the elite really have it) or the recognition (only the top elected officials get it and they, in turn, don’t give much to those of us who slave for them) that gets most of us in politics here and elsewhere, to work 60 hours+ a week and barely have a social life. The motivation is a compelling need to see for ourselves what’s REALLY happening in government and then attempt to change what we don’t like and keep what we see as good.
And I realize that it is at this point that I absolutely MUST stop talking about me and Washington before I really DO become appear to be an egolomanic. Suffice it to say, insult my views? Fine! I love how we all differ in opinion. Insult my role? NOT fine! Good way to really get to me though.
One more thing… I said what’s happened has made me realize that I was MORE patriotic than I previously knew… I didn’t say I wasn’t very patriotic to begin with.
but, what that has to do with the price of bananas is beyond me. And yes, the generations in my family are way stretched out because they either married late, or had huge families.
I am so confused. We are arguing so hotly here, and I don’t see us as being all that far apart. We are all standing solidly behind our Republican president in this matter. Maybe not in other matters, but who said that we were required to?
We all believe that terrorism must be defeated, we all agree that as few as possible innocent lives should be lost in the process. We are just using different terminology.
We have differences, politically and socially. But, that’s what makes this America. Who says we all have to think alike? Why is everyone getting so angry at those who may think a little differently, you should be defending their right to think that way.
Some of the statements that have been made here have made me furious, and, Snowbird, I’m going to pick on you for one - I really resent being called a child. But, just because I am very angry about that statement, I am not going to discount all Snowbird has to say. Just as I am not going to discount all that DMK has to say.
What I’m going to do is to pick and choose among all the ideas that have been presented here, add my own unique point of view, and hopefully come out of the process with a better understanding and determination of the correct course to take in this very important matter.
On Sept. 19, tle posted a topic entitled “Freedom is hard” I suggest that all of you go back and take a good look at that essay, and think about what it says.
That sounds much more serious than “World of the Ants” (actually written by two of the world’s authorities on ants, if anyone cares 
) but I will put it on the list.
Actually, I’m going to suggest that everyone who can, try and get a copy of the West Wing episode that was shown last night. I found it an excellent educator. They explained in clear, uncomplicated terminology a lot about the origins and reasoning behind the explosion of terrorism that exists today.
For those of us, like me, who never have claimed to be great intellectuals, who can’t spell worth squat and whose bedside table has more than its share of romance novels on it, I think it could be of great help.
as another Republican! 
An open minded one at that!!! I’ve learned quite a bit from the Middle East Studies going on. Can we get back on track again?
And I don’t own a gun!
My father was in the thick of things during WWII. He does not talk about it. He received a Purple Heart and either a Bronze or Silver Star. It’s been so long since we “didn’t” talk about them, I’m not sure which… 
He would make up stories about how he got those awards, rather than talk about what really happened. My favorite was when he caught Eisenhower as he fell from a helicopter. 
It is true that back in those days, “therapy” as we know it today, was not accessible, nor was it acceptable. I wish that it had been, but thinking about how my dad feels about any kind of doctor, I tend to doubt whether he would have sought help in the way of release/whatever anyway.
I don’t know how his experience has manifested itself in his life. But, I do know that it must have, and probably still does in some way, shape or fashion.
He and my stepmother had planned on a trip to an island off the coast of France, departing from Kennedy on September 14th. Needless to say, their flight was cancelled. He was furious. He did not want those blanketyblanks to “win”.
They did go for their vacation and just got back last week.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:Oh c’mon
And, if we isolated ourselves, our cheap oil might dry-up and we’d have to do something crazy like invent a clean car that runs on hemp, and then we’d have to let people grow hemp and it would mess up our drug war and people would go crazy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Magnolia, you have the NUTTIEST ideas. Next thing, you’re going to be suggesting that
clean fuel cell technology exists, but a Very Big Oil Company bought the patent and won’t let it go on the market for use in passenger vehicles! We have a Free Market, after all! THAT’s the crazy idea!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
It’s become a ladies tea party and the conversation drifts. Wouldn’t you rather we played nice than were calling each other awful things at war?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t know much about the Canadian health care system, but I’m betting that if I were poor, I’d prefer Canada’s to the U.S.'s.
Speaking of Canada, since the U.S. is SO scared of people smoking Hemp and getting tummy aches, why don’t you Canadians, with your wonderful farmland and progressive ideas start developing Hemp oil cars! Hey you could make a lotta money too.
I mean part of the U.S.'s problem is our dependence on foreign oil right??? Imagine if all our oil could be grown right here! Yeah, yeah yeah, I’m sure there could be some snags, but if we could put a man on the moon, then we can create hemp oil cars right?
Betsy (in Md.) 
InWhyCee -
Girl, I was just through Hope last weekend, en route to Benton, Louisiana! (For a horse trial.)
Never been to the watermelon festival, however.
Would love to run over joggers with you in New York one day. That is, if you can get me out of Prada! We’ll discuss our stategery next week!
Robby
It made me cry for the first time. I felt the heart and soul that went into this country and the good intentions and love that have kept it going.
It does seem very unfair that so many had to die for us to remember how much we should love this country. But the good is here with us and we have an obligation to keep it alive.
Our little town is going to have a parade on October 6 and for the first time we will submit a fully mounted group. I have always been afraid of our horses on asphalt but we will show that horse people are in the heartland of this wonderful country.
I understand from my farrier we will be ok if we use some road plugs in the shoes. Painted horses and walking children will be with us. A little small town America will do everyone a lot of good to get through all this.
We all react differently to a crisis. While some may feel better nit picking others of us think it is the time to be together and show these b******* that we will not give them the satisfaction to accomplish their purposes. Both are perhaps justified. No reason to call names.
It is a fact that 6000 of our childrens have been murdered in their home. It is a fact that many more have suffered and will suffer permanent damage from injuries and trauma. No one has the right to do that to us no matter how abused or paranoid their personal psyche. The damage they have done to their own people is worse. They have painted a face on Islam that it does not deserve.
This is our home and an intruder has damaged our sense of security in our home. Time to take off the gloves and forget the rules. No one has had the audacity to do such a thing to Americans since the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.
We can welcome the Japanese now, and we have been cooperative with them since they conceded they were wrong. Yes! we panicked and we feared the japanese during the war and we did wrong things. But, we learn from our mistakes and we will all protect those who are in the Islamic religion. Islam is not monolithic it has a spectrum just as every religion, just as Christianity has sects.
America has a very forgiving heart and love for everyone, but it is most important for us to protect our children in their home. We helped rebuild Europe because this country doesn’t hold a grudge and doesn’t hate anyone.
And, I believe we should be together when we remember those good things we have done.
God Bless America and help us to be wise. We here can celebrate all religions and all beliefs and we don’t have a need to humiliate anyone.
I live our here in farm country aand there are many here from every possible persuasion. I have a Chinese Doctor whom I admire and love. I have been treated by a Korean eye Doctor, we have many tradesmen from India. One of the men who is probably the reason I stayed in this industry and I was not not alone, everyone’s most respected was black in this industry.
What I loved in this sport and the horse people I have known was not just tolerance but respect for anyone who could get the job done.
So I expect from all of you that respect but never, ever respect for a sociopath who kills innocent children in their home unsuspecting and without warning. That to me is a coward and a thief, whatever the reason there is no excuse for such evil.
[This message was edited by Snowbird on Sep. 26, 2001 at 12:58 AM.]
[This message was edited by Snowbird on Sep. 26, 2001 at 01:03 AM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vineyridge:
in the Hague and “war crimes” tribunals of various sorts were set up by the international community after WWI and WWII to provide legal fora (forums) for transnational/international incidents. The mechanisms are in place. The trial of the Lockerby bombers proves that. The problem is getting the cooperation of the sovereign states harboring those who are wanted for specific incidents.
What’s interesting to me is that we are focusing so hard on the Afghanis, when more than half of the WTC/Pentagon terrorists are listed as Saudi nationals. Bin Laden himself is a Saudi. The Taliban may be harboring and training terrorists, but Saudi Arabia is the prime breeding ground for the anti-American fanatics.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree totally with your first point, vineyridge. However, per your second point, I don’t think “we’re” focusing too hard on just Afghanistan. I think the initial piercing focus is on that country because it is believed that Bin Laden is physically there now. As far as going after other terrorists, I’m sure Saudi Arabia is in forefront of many minds, along with a few other countries.
This is a great group -
We’ve been through the WTC disaster, Arab discussion, social problems/justice(???)/remedies, a not inconsiderable amount of slanging & mudslinging, and now we finally reveal our true selves
as we wallow in
our secret trash literature!!!
Whatta great group!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
I am really fed up with being urged to go shopping for the sake of my country, and the following is from a letter I wrote to a number of friends last night…
…
Get the idea? If our wallets are meant to be weapons, let’s use them to redefine an nation that is humane, community-minded and forward-thinking rather than a hollow monument of acquisitiveness.
[This message was edited by hobson on Oct. 04, 2001 at 11:31 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hobson, that was brilliant,
Betsy in MD
Sorry to hear. We only had one plant in Charlotte! I think the worst part was that the CEO made the announcement about 3 months after he started, after a 2 week trip to London, and that week showed up driving a new Lexus. Not much tact…
I too am quite happy not to be there anymore. I feel bad for those left behind with the big work loads and stress that they are next. I will never forget that day. I’d only worked there 1 year. One of the ladies in my dept (she collated mailings etc.) had been there over 40 years. They told us at the same time we were both laid off. They didn’t even tell her in private. 40 years she had worked hard. Never one to call in sick or not do her job 100%. Never complained, always smiled. She made maybe $10.00 an hour when she got the boot. She was only a year or 2 shy of 65. Nice, eh?
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
It seems that during the bombing raids on Kabul, our military personnel managed to hit a UN agency building, killing four UN workers. I can’t imagine the UN will be pleased…
Darn, I blew my cover. I really wanted you all to think I was a Rush Limbaugh supporter, but now that I have shared my love of soyfoods with you, that cover is blown. 
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
