If any of you IGNORANT people would like me to enlighten you about this drug please just ask. No more than a diabetic can do without insulin, or a near sighted child go without glasses, can the true ADD child function without properly BALANCING his/her brain chemistry. The plain old ignorance on this board is infuriating. If you don’t agree with the left, you are crucified. Snowbird, I admire your tenacious defense but your words are wasted. Go where your knowledge and wisdom of age are appreciated. It really isn’t here. Save yourself the aggrevation of trying to enlighten those that already have ALL the answers. This is a good example of ‘a LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing’.
(Nervously dipping a toe into this epic…but is it the right place??)
I heard an (American) UN worker in Afghanistan on the radio this am. His opinion on the food drop was that it did more harm than good. There are 4 million people needing food aid. The food parcels that are dropped will go to the strongest…not the neediest.
Large parts of Afghanistan are minefields. Desperate starving people will be tempted into mined areas to reach the food.
He dismissed the idea as propaganda rather than a real solution.
In my opinion, it may do some good, because it demonstrates good will, or at least good intentions. When the bombing stops, the UN will be able to resume its own aid program.
Heard some interesting opinions on an NPR talk show this a.m. A couple of Middle East / Central Asian scholars were the guests. They sounded like they were also from the region.
One talked about certain Central Asian sects who have two central codes - one of hospitality, and one of revenge. He said that their code of hospitality meant that Bin Laden was viewed as a guest, and it would be a violation of their beliefs to turn a guest over.
The scarier aspect, of course, was revenge. He described their code of revenge as “bounded by neither time nor space”. That meant there was no time limit on seeking revenge - if it took 20 years, so be it. His larger point was the need to understand the philosophies of these areas, in order to find a solution to terrorism.
The other guest noted that since none of the suicide bomber/suspects actually was Afghani, it made some countries or individuals far less sympathetic to our bombing that country.
Very complex cultural issues at work there, huh?
I did find an interesting article concerning the American public not being too thrilled about the Canadian response during a televised CBC town hall meeting the other day. You can read it here:
http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/09/20/town010920
I doubt that would be enough reason for them to be excluded from the speech, but hey. I know that the PM is meeting with Bush on Monday to discuss what Canada can do, so it was more than likely a slip than anything else.
Cheers,
Susie
http://www.kachoom.com
“Laugh at yourself first, before anyone else can.” ~Elsa Maxwell
So, Jumphigh, you’re in the Falwell/Robertson camp, then? We were attacked because the characterless feminists and whispers homosexual communist satan-worshippers have taken over the nation!
Oh, if only we could turn back the clock to that grand generation! White kids wouldn’t have to attend school with black kids, we could still use DDT, we wouldn’t have those pesky labor laws that make us have weekends off, and we’d be allowed to put people in jail for disagreeing with conservatives. wistful sigh
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This from a NOT tree-hugging liberal… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don’t know about that Duffy, I saw you eye-ing the cherry tree in my front yard. 
Forget the presidency, DMK for Prime Minister!
I hadn’t equated the ‘grey area’ as fear, either. Rather the understanding, historical perspective, context, and honesty that I hope Dubya, and Chretien by ‘fraternal’ association, exercises when determining the best course of action.
The black and white: I wouldn’t hesitate to cheer should Osama bin Laden and his terrorist henchmen be dragged through the streets of Kabul to their deaths. The grey: the Taliban were trained and propped up by the American government; the majority of the Afghani people are utterly powerless and struggle daily to feed themselves and their children.
The Afghani people supported the Taliban in the mistaken belief that their lives, post war with Russia, would improve. They are now destitute and hopeless; and the Taliban wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice the entirety of the Afghani population in the jihad against the American people.
Let’s absolutely rid the world of the terrorists responsible - let’s not take out a continent in the process under the mistaken conceit that we in the west are right and everyone else wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fortunately, Bush and his gang seem to be making a little sense on this count:
The Bush administration, however, has been cautious. Last week, President Bush told reporters that while he welcomes “cooperation of the citizens in Afghanistan who may be tired of having the Taliban in place . . . we’re not into nation-building.” A U.S. Embassy official visited Zahir Shah last week, but the content of his exchange with the monarch has been kept secret.
-------<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I realize Hobson that it is hard for you to comprehend that it is possible for us to have a President who isn’t stupid and doesn’t lie. It had to be a Republican!
Yes! let’s see it was Kennedy and Johnson who designed the Viet Nam fiasco, it was Clinton who weasled his through his 8 years trying to decide exactly what “is” meant in every context, and wasn’t it during his watch that they lost whole computers full of classified information. Wasn’t it Clinton who bombed the aspirin factory?
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican too, from what I remember of history. We have as Republicans never been into Nation building, our bigesst crime was isolationism (it’s not our business). So Hobson sit back in your chair and see how a real President can intelligently cope with a serious situation without war or making “deals”.
Even, if it’s been reformatted Socialism is still socialism. It hasn’t worked any better than Marxism and if you don’t believe that just look at the Post Office and see how well government does running services.
Yep! I do agree with Ted Nugent…so go ahead and shoot. OH! but now you’re a pacifist so I guess you need to figure out what it was in my childhood that made me so self sufficient and individualistic. Well, I never starved and I was never abused and I had a good education that made me know I was the captain of my ship and responsible for my own life. I would like it if everyone had the same confidence and pleasure. It’s the greatest feeling in the world.
IlonaE,
I think that there are more important aspects to society than the almighty dollar. I’m one of those people who would gladly make do with less if I didn’t have to work as much. Germans, with their lesser economy, also are given a lot more free time to enjoy their families.
Yes, the US is a great place to make money, but if that’s not your main thing, well, there may be more desirable places to live, like Germany where you get at least a month of vacation and a 40 hour work week.
Ride it Like You Stole It…
Is it possible to be American and believe in freedom of speech for EVERYONE? even the opposition?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, I suppose I’m impressed by how he’s handling the whole thing, though he doesn’t have to do much to impress<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Translation Please! I don’t know what this means
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>, but I’m still embarrassed to have him as a president. It’s not just that I don’t agree with his politics. I didn’t agree with Reagan’s politics either, but at least he didn’t embarrass me. (Hey, I know plenty of Republicans who are embarrassed by him too.) My friends from Paris were visiting a month ago and they told me that the Europeans can’t stand him (because of the Kyoto treaty).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why would you be embarrassed if he’s doing a good job? Is it just that your disappointed because he is not as stupid as you estimated because he has not been merchandised like a package of cookies?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> She said there was a half hour puppet show on every day before the local news that made fun of Bush (among others.) I don’t even truly think he’s dumb; he just sounds that way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK! he is not a great orator, he is not good at presentation, he hasn’t hired a bunch of Hollywood moguls to teach him what a President is supposed to sound like and look like, he just is our President. A real person in a blue suit with a business like approach to being President. Isn’t it wonderful that America has always had the privilege of laughing at itself, and we don’t drop bombs on people for making jokes. Haven’t you watched Saturday Night Live? They make jokes about everyone too.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I’m just glad that the powers that be are thinking things through, instead of just rushing over there and dropping bombs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And, just why do you suppose that is? Could it be because the President has not authorized them to do it? Could it be that these intelligent people respect him not only as President but as a leader?
Maybe they know something you don’t know.
Now, if you want to discuss embarrassment, I was embarrassed by the use the last President had for Cuban Cigars. I was embarrased by his behavior having some little girl under the table licking his personal parts while he was discussing important life and death business of the country. I was embarrased by the total lack of maturity when the last White House Staff vandalized all the equipment in the White House by removing keys from the keyboards. And, the list of important things that embarrassed me is so long that I don’t time to type them in for you.
I survived and so will you!
He was our President for better or worse and as such deserved to be respected even when they swiped all that stuff from the White House as they left. Hopefully, since they were caught it has all been returned.
OH! Ilona, be forgiving “they know not what they say”. It’s sort of like when you meet a deaf man, you can’t get mad at him because he doesn’t hear you. I’ve tried to remember back to my rebel days and I am sure I was once equally unhearing aand confrontational, it just comes with the territory.
I was thinking that being a young Republican in the days of FDR was probably my personal rebellion against the establishment. Of course the difference is that “I WAS RIGHT”. HA!
[This message was edited by Snowbird on Oct. 03, 2001 at 04:14 PM.]
you didn’t read the threads as you admitted - my post to Bryllytip or whatever was in response to a negative direct remark from her about me!! I just believe if you decide to direct a remark at someone you should sign your own name and be proud of your work and let everyone know who you are!!!
Regarding buying things - well you can buy some stock even if it’s a little in the companies that stepped forward and gave money to victims of 9/11. Then hold on to it and when the market recovers you will have said thank you to them for their good dead and in the long run you’ll probably have a good investment. Companies that do good deeds are usually well run.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
BTW, Bill Clinton’s IQ was 200??? WOW, that is nuts. Is he a mensa member?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Says who? Bill? Hah. Sounds like another lie… y’now, the one where he said, “I did not have a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky”? 
If his IQ really is 200, (sure, it is ) he would not have needed others to define the word, “Sex” for him.
The man is an idiot without the savant.
What I do, I do for my horse, and thus I do for myself~me
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
which I guess is why they say nobody really wins a war, which makes me wonder why we keep having them. Does anybody think that we as a society will ever get beyond using force and violence to solve our problems? 
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wars, to name a few, gave us independence from England in 1776, ended slavery in the 1860’s, stopped Hitler in the 1940’s and the take over of Kuwait by thugs just a few years ago. That doesn’t even touch on the Arab world and it’s battles since Mohammad times as the “leader” dating back to 630.
A free press is neccesary! Hummm, Jefferson has a wonderful quote regarding this…I’ll have to search for it. However, the press must act responsibly when in the battle zones.
Chaser, thanks for sharing the UN workers comments regarding food drops. Isn’t it a crying shame that the country has been covered with landmines by hostile groups and it’s something our men are having to cope with along with the natives. I HOPE the food gets to people who need it! 
If the food drops are too far away from people to be of any good I hope they land on landmines so the mines don’t kill more people. Pollyanna thinking but it works!
SLW
Now I have heard everything !! but pigs on board would be a detracter from islamic terrorists wouldn’t it !
jumphigh and snowbird… just think of us as true believers in the constitution. You know… the one that protects free speech?
And I do not believe anyone on this thread has called the man a moron, stupid, incompetant or any other derogatory name. No one, to my knowledge has insulted the speech, the principles behind the speech, the man, his dress, his shoes or his speechwriter.
Please don’t look for things that are not there.
And as John Stewart said last night " ‘Sublimbinal’ is not a catch phrase around here anymore… not for a long while… but I hope it is one day, because then we will know we have weathered the storm."
ji-had also je-had (j-had)
n.
- A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
- A crusade or struggle: “The war against smoking is turning into a jihad against people who smoke” (Fortune).
If it makes you feel better I could substitute “crusade” for “jihad”…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SLW:
DMK- Thanks for sharing your gray areas. Your thoughts have prompted me to go read more about Pakistan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With all due respect for DMK’s knowledge of many topics, and her ability to concisely and calmly explain her thinking–the information leading to her posts is available to all of us via the internet. Destabilization of the Pakistani government and its potentially dire consequences was mentioned VERY early on, and it’s not too difficult to extrapolate from there.
OF COURSE we must respond! OF COURSE bombing Afghanistan to smithereens is not the correct response! It has been pretty clear for a while that the majority of people posting here share these two views. So, why in the world has it taken thirteen pages of “dialog”, including several of non-substantive, irrelevant, personal attacks, to BEGIN to explore what we all agree on? We are far better served spending our energy educating ourselves about the history and issues surrounding the tragedy (I know many of you already are–I am speaking for those, including myself, who were woefully ignorant before the attack.)
If people need to get excited about something, I suggest they think about the grounding of crop-dusting planes and the reason for it. That’s if the prospect of a MAJOR world conflict doesn’t upset you more than party politics.
For crying out loud, Snowbird, how is it you seize upon socialism when the discussion is about something entirely different??? Did anybody else read into my post a critique of capitalism? 
And for the record, I am not a democrat, nyah nyah.
Hello, halfhalt, how dare you try to sneakily steal my crown as the spelling queen of the BB!
There was nothing in your post worthy of a response Ilona, but the obvious glaring one.
Snowbird, I just find it a little… unimaginative… that every time someone wants to say something negative about Bush, someone else counters with “Hey, at least he’s not getting off in the Oval Office!”
For the record, as an American, I was horribly embarrassed by that little episode of Clinton’s. Doesn’t mean Bush doesn’t embarrass me on a weekly basis.
For those who haven’t noticed, Clinton is no longer president. Why the hell are you still talking about him? For God’s sake, measure Bush on his own successes and failures, not someone else’s.
And speaking of successes and failures, I am also impressed with what has been done by the Bush camp so far. I’m encouraged by the efforts to build a coalition, and by the fact that no one sent SCUD missles whizzing over there on 9/12 just to prove a point.
Now, back to the COTH Arab Studies Group and Book Club…
Bedside books. I ADORE reading in bed! One of the best things on earth as far as I’m concerned!
Granted, not riding anymore allows for a lot more time to do such things as read in bed. I definitely believe you are what you read and you DO learn a lot about people by what they have around them to read (if they read at all).
I have, for some reason, turned into a nonfiction girl lately. However, I can’t deny that I do allow myself a little trash reading every now and then… hello Nora Roberts and Harlequin (sp?) romances!
By my bed now, however, are (I read several books at once, rotating around… which might explain why it takes me so long to finnish… grrrr!):
-Tom Friedman’s “The Lexus and the Olive tree”
-“Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye”- by JFK aides Dave Powers and Kenny O’Donnell (Kevin Costner’s role in 13 Days)… this a MUST read for JFK fans or dorks like me with a big interest in the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don’t think they sell it anymore though. Mine’s from the library and way overdue.
-Stephen Ambrose’s new one- “The Wild Blue”- The Men and Boys who Flew B-24’s over Germany- I’ve temporarily ditched the others to focus on this one- it’s hard to put down! There is no WAY Mcgovern would have lost if he had talked about his war record more. No way.
-“The Next Generation”- Andrei Cherny- Andrei is one of the smartest people of my generation and I’m priveldged (sp?) to call him a friend. He lays out a blueprint of the future of politics in the information age and I am reading his book for a third time. There’s no doubt in my mind that his name will be a household one someday.
DMK… PLEASE start a topic on this!!! I love hearing what everyone reads!
