Bush opens up a can of whoop a$$

[Duffy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kellybird:
magnolia and creseida–before we go spreading some false rumor about Bill Clinton’s IQ, which may or may not be close to 200, I was hoping someone could verify that. Does anyone know? Por favor?

Thanks in advance
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m sure our former President’s IQ is right up there, but methinks approaching 200 might be a titch generous. Last time I played Trivial Pursuit and this came up, I was shocked that anything over maybe 125 qualified one as a genius! YEAH!!

That said, I know plenty of supposed “genius” level IQ people who could barely screw in a light bulb, let alone…Well, you catch my drift.

[horsluvr]

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured 1,000, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel, Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel, Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000, Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors, Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

Maybe if Clinton had kept his promises, an estimated 7,000 people would be alive today.

This question was raised on a Philly radio call-in show. Without casting stones, it is a legitimate question. There are two men, both extremely wealthy. One develops relatively cheap software and gives hundreds of millions of dollars to charity. The other sponsors terrorism. That being the case, why is it that the US government has spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the past ten years than Osama bin Laden?

I wish I could credit the author.

[Snowbird]

OH! my that is another world. I find it hard to comprehend because while I read the small print on tickets I cannot make myself read an insurance policy.

I understand the logic that when they average everything out the healthy people make up for those who get sick, but I just can’t fathom why the healthy ones should be penalized by way of integrity.

I guess the thing is after the fact when the Insurance Companies find out how much they had to pay out for “whatever” they will just bump up the premiums to repay themselves the losses.

So why don’t we insure ourselves? I have often thought that if I put the price of my car insurance in a separate account, I would have more than enough money to pay any claims.

It was like when we had our barn fire years ago, the insurance premium to cover the barn went up enough per year to cover what it cost to pay our claim in I think it was 8 years.

[Weatherford]

Another perspective - are we targeting the wrong person?

Janes article

Interesting reading.

[Edited to fix URL so page is not so wide.]

[This message was edited by Portia on Sep. 21, 2001 at 07:08 PM.]

[Kryswyn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If a sociopath breaks into your house to kill your family and the babies will you sit down and have an esoteric discussion with him and explain to him in between his murders of your family that he is suffering from some psychosis or are you going to try and stop him him first and then talk later? Will you cook him a lovely dinner because hunger drove him to your house to kill you because you had food and he didn’t? And, will you do that after he has murderd you mother or your wife or only before he has murdered.

Will you say to that murderer who really believes that he is entitled to murder you because you have so much and he has so little, you’re right! and you are entitled to kill us because we have been too fortunate and here is the combination to the safe and the keys to my car so you now can have money and a new car? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The beautiful part about us humans still having some of our “animal” instincts is that when we are attacked we automatically fight back. If the sociopath in your example broke into any of our homes he’d likely be beaten to death with heavy bits swung on their reins (headstalls removed, please) while we were screaming, "You want MY rig? You want MY TRAILER?? Then you work your sorry butt off to make the payments!

It is only afterwards that our humanistic nature comes forth wondering if there was anyway we could’ve prevented such carnage, maybe by donating to the food bank, or giving up a week to help Habitat for Humanity.

There is no arguing with terrorists, and no use reasoning with a sociopath. They are like rabid animals. They didn’t ask to contract the disease, but once afflicted, they must be put down for the sake of society. The hard part is catching them, and then being able to prove your case against them.

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

[hobson]

I suspect that even as we argue, debate, discuss and lob insults about how the US should proceed in this situation, things are already happening that we will never know about. I would bet that there are already military guys swarming in and around Afghanistan hunting for Bin Laden and his lackeys.

The Washintgon Post just ran a story about the Bush Administration’s plans to keep information about the retaliation effort firmly under wraps. Deliberate disinformation will be a part of the strategy.

I can see the point of it, but it already feels a little disorienting. There will be no way of knowing whether the news we hear about retaliatory developments is true or not, and we can further assume that a great many of the press releases from the State Department will be deliberate lies (this is not me “bashing” the Bush administration -it’s information from the administration itself).

So, whatever happens - freezing terrorists’ assets, covert military operations, discreet bombing, assassinations…it will be quite some years before we hear the full story.

[LucianCephus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Punctuation is also a handy friend to have when feeling epic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, heidi, I really must steal this!

[hobson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heidi-ugh:

If this isn’t eerie, don’t know what is: Fabio…peeps…pigeons. Someone, please consult your Nostradamus and shed light on this phenomena.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there IS a Nostradamus thingy about this, something like, In the year of the pink squishy bunnies, a winged avenger will hurl itself upon the twin pectoral brothers…

[hobson]

Wow, the informal banking thing is fascinating - I have the feeling of peeling away onion-like layers of cultural analysis, with each successive layer making the picture SO much more complex.

[Pixie_Dust]

and state that Fabio makes my skin crawl (and not in a good way) and Jude Law is the cat’s pajamas!!

Betsy (in Md)

[Kryswyn]

As I drove home today listening to the news of the bombings, I realized I felt very fatalistic about this war. And BTW, am I the only person who has a hard time conceptualizing this … military action as a War? Vietnam was a War, Korea was a War. This seems a lot less somehow, at least right now.

So anyway, there I am driving and realizing that, for or against, there’s nothing I could do to change the outcome. People will die, ours and theirs; good and bad people, soldiers and civilians. Maybe even my nephew.

And then I come here and find IlonaE telling us to shut up about Dubya’s accent, word inventions and mannerisms. Nope, sorry, just can’t do it. He may be the President, the CinC, and even head of his local lodge. To me he will always be the man I didn’t vote for, whose eyes are uncomfortably close together for me to look at for very long, and who has problems with multisyllabic words, who wants women to go back to having backstreet abortions. Who took away financial aid from agencies who gave information about abortion as an alternative.

He doesn’t need my support. He has the support of all the people who voted for him. I can honestly say that if given the opportunity to meet him, I’d decline. I have absolutly nothing to say to the man.

The only good thing about this war from my point of view is that it’s keeping him focused on foreign affairs. And I’m saving my prayers for the health and long lives of our Supreme Court Justices. I hope each and every one of them lives at least another 8 years.

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

[pt1]

If we keep agreeing, we’ll start getting along. And then maybe others will start getting along.
And before we know it, peaceful coexistence will become a real possibility.

Quel horreur!!!

See - not all conservatives are spawn of Evil.
The scary thing is, neither are all liberals…

I feel much better to hear that you do recognize the need for some defense capabilities.

I hear you, too, about situations like Rwanda and similar situations. That’s where I wish (since we’re blue-skying) that there were a truly effective international accord for such situations. We aren’t there yet, but the worldwide reaction to the WTC attack is encouraging - even if some of the allies are a bit lukewarm due to their domestic problems.

Wouldn’t it be nice if such situations as the WTC, and even the Israeli-Pakistan conflict, could be presented to some form of international tribunal that actually had the recognition and power to make its determinations stick. That would mean each nation might perceive themselves as giving up a part of their sovereignity, but it’s still a long way from “world government” and in a small world, we need the rule of law more than ever.

I’m rambling - see, Hobson, your agreement just blew my mind…

[DMK]

SLW - nobody is arguing that starving countries have a higher IMR than the US - that might possibly fall into the “no duh” category. And nobody - least of all me - is arguing that this is not a great country. In fact I would venture to suggest that our system of free market medicine has helped with a lot of great advances in research.

Conversely, I do not believe that anyone should hold our health stats up to the rest of the developed world as superior in any way, as that flies in the face of logic (never mind provinces in Canada, try suburbs in Detroit and the Ozarks - EVERY country has variations, but as long as the same sampling logic is applied universally, the variations are equal). Nor should we solely take claim for all the great advances in medicine as a result of our free market system (which if you understand health care delivery, is clearly not so free market).

Our system of health care is clearly unhealthy in every possible aspect of the system. I doubt you will find too many people who are in the field to disagree with that statement. Nobody has any clue how to fix it to even the partial satisfaction of most of the parties, and most - myself included - are unsure about socialized medicine as a workable aspect for this nation. Still, Houston, we have a problem…

Interestingly enough, that decline in IMR has been almost the sole reason the average age life expectancy has “increased”. Take away IMR deaths and look at the life expectancy, and you will find that we do not live that much longer than we did 75 years ago. Interesting considering how much we spend on trying to live longer.

As for rationing health care, it is indeed an uncomfortable thought, but to be quite honest, right now every American has their health care rationed. For the uninsured, the limits are obvious, for the insured, there are maximums on lifetime or annual coverage, limits on procedures and drugs, certain cutting edge care (experimental) is rarely covered, many optional procedures (cosmetic) are not covered and so on. They are just the limits we are familiar with, rather than the unknown limits.

OK - back to the real subject before Erin comes and beats this post with a big stick

[moose]

Well, here’s something to think about, so far there has been no clear mention of re-instating the draft. I think at present that is hinting towards special forces and not a ground war.

I appreciated his speech. I think it was powerful and said a lot in between the lines and with what was not said.

Bin Laden sent his edict to kill all american’s, civillian or not, in 1998. He has proven he meant it. It shouldn’t scare us just now that the Talaban/Bin Laden is claiming to now remake that threat and declare a holy war. It’s already been said, done and prepared for, years ago.

A footnote is that it was written that Bin Laden decided the US were paper tiger’s in the Sudan, in 1993 when 17 American Soldiers were tortured and dragged through the streets caused us to re-acess the situation and pull out. He couldn’t believe that such a “little” act of terror would make us run. He then proceeded to the embassy’s to test us more. What’s more, both he and his organization have repeatedly tried to attain Uranium. Is there any doubt in anyones minds on how he would use it?

I don’t know if anyone saw Walter Cronkite later, but in his many years of wisdom and observing battles, he said it’s a given that we must take this organization out, but that we still need to realize and cure the economics that have caused such a hate/envy to grow. In a nutshell, all of the western world need to become more aware of how the rest of the world is living. He also said that’s important that all events be recorded by a war correspondent, censored for wartime, not because we have a right to know, but because it our “responsibility” to know, as a democratic society. Gotta love that guy.

[This message was edited by Moose on Sep. 21, 2001 at 04:09 PM.]

[Kryswyn]

should anyone feel like picking them.

Listen Ilona, if you think people don’t get through Ivy League schools on connections, you just don’t have the right connections! They’re called ‘endowments’.

Anyway, Dubya is the President, and what he says goes for the next four years anyway. And for the record, it’s not his accent, or even the fact that his eyes are too close together that bother me about him and keeps me from supporting him, it’s his stand (and the Republican stand) on abortion. Perhaps that’s why I’m in favor of OS? It makes abortion a non-issue.

Finally, any insults against certain Democrat ‘characters’ from Vermont will be taken personally by me. That’s my camp counselor you’re talking about. So to you!

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

[vineyridge]

But did it occur to y’all how much the Saudis could do to defuse the situation. The King is, after all, a descendant of Mohammed, and the hereditary Shariff of Islam’s holiest sites.

If the Saudi gov’t were to declare that the sort of terrorism that is being practiced is totally against the teachings of Mohammed and were to cut off access to the Haj sites to Afghanis and suspected terrorists (Papal Bull/excommunication equivalent), Islamic fundamentalists of the Taliban/Osama ben Laden stripe would be seriously affected, one would think. And it might also make the Pakistani street people think as well.

The Saudis won’t do that, but they have today or yesterday withdrawn diplomatic recognition from the Taliban.

I’ve found that working with my horses, even if it’s just hand grazing them, gives the only mental relief from the current world situation. They bring peace. They are peace.

[Flash44]

Don’t even go there. Ever. Ever. Ever.

You need to walk a few miles in someone else’s shoes before you can pass that kind of judgment.

I have the best of both worlds - I work from home and earn a good salary. I still did part time day care until my son was 3, then enrolled him in preschool part time. He had to be out of the house for at least 15-20 hours a week in order for me to get my work done.

I have friends who stay at home and friends who work. The friends who stay at home are volunteering and getting involved in all kinds of things to occupy their time. The ones that work have great careers and are very successful.

ALL OF THEM ARGUE WITH THEIR SPOUSES ABOUT MONEY, WHO’S MORE TIRED, WHO’S WORKING HARDER, ETC.

I plan to work now and retire early, rather than stay home now and work later. I just feel that the work force will “pass me by” if I take too much time off right now. Things change so fast and technology increases exponentially on a yearly basis that you either use it or lose it.

I’m putting money away left and right for education, retirement, etc. When my child is older and facing tough choices, I will be home, not at work. Hopefully.

Use the Force.

[N_B_T]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Worthy:
Stephen King.

What on earth does that make me??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It makes you…happy, because there is a sequel to The Talisman!

[N_B_T]

I think a lot of very frightening possibilities flashed through everyone’s thoughts in the first days after the attack.

Now, however, I think the possibility of a third world war is extremely slight. I do think that fighting could spread beyond the US and its allies’ “war on terrorism” (and that could be very serious indeed) but not that it will escalate into a massive global conflict.

I think the possibility of further terrorist attacks on US soil is fairly high; I fear one or some may succeed. However, I don’t think such an attack could succeed to the point of creating the kind of breakdown of order in this country that would necessitate stockpiling food and weapons. Major disruptions possibly but not a complete breakdown.

This is a rather lackluster response to your very serious question–will try to do better as the discussion continues.

[halfhalt]

about Kellybird’s post being her own? Heck, given my experience as both a daughter and a parent, i’ld never for one moment assume that what a teenager expresses is an echo of her/his parents’ views…! That’s a tad insulting to kellybird and other teenagers on the board.