He is an incredibly wealthy individual because he was born to the right parents.
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I’ve been following this whole drama with great interest so I’m glad there’s a thread about it, even tangentially.
I too am no fan of KC. I believe that he speaks with the arrogance of someone who 110% believes he is right 110% of the time and won’t make room for differing opinions, despite his sometimes open and conciliatory tone. I can’t really blame that on him - growing up a white man with a ton of money, he probably never encountered any sort of resistance or uncomfortable situation he couldn’t circumvent with dollars.
That said, there are a lot of rich people who do this sport, and some of them DO keep themselves open and listening and learning. So I also don’t think that’s a complete excuse.
As for Kalinka, I don’t think anything is going to change in her situation. I do think there are simple things you can do for horses who tense up in high glitz/glamour scenarios, the first of which some others have already said, just leave her in the barn for the awards ceremony. Why does she HAVE to be there if it’s clearly distressing for her?
I think shows in general aren’t great for horses in a lot of ways. The way they force a no-turnout routine, the way most horses are overjumped, the pulling of the shoes before the hunter hack classes, the dangerous lunging (though hopefully that will change a bit with new rule changes?) and the overworking/riding of horses in the morning to produce the necessary zombie hunter look, the huge bits and training equipment seen in the schooling rings (and jumper ring itself). I mean, just so so many things. Dealing with an awards ceremony is the very tip of a big iceberg which I don’t think is ever going to melt.
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I guess my problem with their words is that I do think horses do these things from their own free will. A dog doesn’t play fetch or run through an obstacle course or pull a sled because they woke up one day and decided to. These are trained behaviors. But anyone who’s ever seen a dog do these things knows they LOVE it. And some choose not to participate, and the handlers know they can’t force that participation. The dog has to love the work. (I actually had a dog I wanted to train to do agility. She was bred for it. She hated it.)
We can see that dogs enjoy this because through thousands of years of selective breeding we bred for expressive traits. A dog can smile at you. A dog can vigorously wag its tail to show its happiness. We never needed traits for horses to do these things. We didn’t prioritize expressive eyes or ears for horses. So their emotions are harder to see. But it doesn’t mean horses don’t experience happiness with these activities just like dogs do. I’d actually venture to say it would be really weird if they didn’t experience happiness/pleasure/contentment from their jobs, because there have been so many studies showing other mammals find contentment in their jobs. So why would horses be different?
There’s always outliers of course. I think everyone has met a horse or two who just didn’t want to work.
More and more studies in animals have found that they are way more intelligent than we have thought in the past. Heck, there’s even a new study going on that may prove that dogs can form sentences. I just personally think the line of thought this person has is extremely outdated.
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Did you see the bit in the article about the difference between dogs and horses though? It was pretty eye opening.
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So I’ve heard. That’s why I wondered if he actually runs a business, or just shows his own horses.
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I did, but they have studied animals as diverse as rats and elephants and seen the part of the brain associated with pleasure light up when given a job. Horses have been domesticated for less time, but I don’t know how relevant that really is. Within a lifetime they domesticated foxes to act like dogs. The science of domestication is not well understood and we are just now starting to understand small parts of it.
Like, can dogs become more domesticated? Can we further domesticate dogs? Or is there a wall or limit somewhere? When is that limit? If there is a limit, does that mean that after a certain point, it really doesn’t matter if you’ve domesticated an animal for 5000 or 50000 years? The fox domestication program has seemed to suggest that domestication may be a switch and not a slow progression. And if it is, how long you’ve had it domesticated may not matter at all.
Next, dogs do need other dogs around. It’s vitally important for their mental health, actually. Now, a dog can live alone and go see other dogs every once in a while, like to the park. But keeping a dog isolated from other dogs is borderline inhumane and was not how dogs have traditionally lived. Up until maybe 70 years ago, a dog would have been in a situation where there were other dogs around to socialize with. The idea of keeping a single dog is a new concept derived from living in cities. So to say that dogs don’t need other dogs is wrong.
I’d love to see brain scans of horses being shown photos or video of their human vs other things. I think that would enlighten us a lot on if a horse gets happiness out of interacting with their person. I tend to believe some do, maybe all. They just don’t show it as strongly as a dog does. When I was a kid, I boarded Storm. I had no interaction with his feed. I came about 6 days a week to ride him. The only food given out by me was a cookie after the ride, and because I rode after school a lot of time he would actually have to leave his hay when I came. But every time he heard my car pull into the driveway, he would whinny as loud as he could, and wait for me looking out his stall door. I’ve had my other horses come up to me from the field just for pets when it’s nowhere near feeding time. And I don’t think I’m some special horse whisperer. I think that there’s probably a lot of similar stories from horse people. But it’s not studied.
Lastly, I would 100% go to the food reward over being with a person. Maybe I’m also not domesticated enough 
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I don’t think he does anything else, but I really don’t know. I watched part of a video with Kaley Cuoco, and then I googled. Definitely not an authority. I am always curious about how folks do horses.
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End of the day tho the point is still this: a horse is not the same as a dog. So we shouldn’t compare them, or ascribe dog behaviors to horses. Or human behaviors, either!
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Well, I think he runs in a business in that he wins money and sells horses, no different than Georgia Bloomberg or Lillie Keenan or a number of other pros. McLain Ward isn’t exactly known for training outside clients, but would you say that he doesn’t run a business?
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McLain trains Lillie, doesn’t he? As well as some others.
I don’t know anything about Karl’s business, whether he trains customers or sells horses or what have you. That’s why I asked about it.
Doesn’t he do a lot of clinics though? And those are big money.
I do think Karl Cook is a declared professional so he must train enough clients to feel that’s profitable.
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You don’t have to have clients to be a professional.
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No, but why would you declare if you don’t have to.
I guess he could be getting sponsorships from companies, but I can’t imagine he’d think that was worth it either.
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Sponsorships are enormously worth it. Why stay an amateur when you’re going to be seriously competing at that level? Would you really see yourself showing in the A/Os at the same time? Nah, definitely worth it to be sponsored (and not have to worry about running afoul of how ridiculous the amateur rules have gotten, tbh).
I had a brief period as a pro simply for sponsorship reasons, and I was riding at nowhere near the level of KC nor anywhere near as successfully
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Interesting. Pretty much everyone I know who has been sponsored was not paid; just given free product. Free saddles, feed, etc. One person has her entry fees paid. For us regular people that may make it worth it, but from what I know about him, he is rich from other means.
I mean, “force” is a word that lends itself towards the physical. But you absolutely can force an animal to do something by making the alternative so painful that they’ll chose what you want.
Force breaking a dog is a prime example.
My non factual guess is that he is designated pro as he is paid to ride horses owned by not him. I haven’t checked his horses’ USEF/ FEI profiles but I’d guess he doesn’t own all of them. But can’t discount declaring pro simply to not worry about ammy defining rules.
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His father invented quickbooks.
On Kalinka- I think she’s one of those super game hot mares and thinks she’s going for another round. People are holding her down and there’s music blaring instead. No shit she’s stressed, she’s been trained to go in and go fast and jump. Not stand politely. I would personally pull out another quieter horse for awards ceremony especially if I had been dumped.
On improving shows in general- I would start with lunging. Better footing, bigger areas, time limits. I can’t stand the ripping them around in a tiny circle for 45+ minutes. Heaven forbid i want to let my horse walk/trot out there. No, there’s psychos cracking the whip and zero space.
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His mother Signe Otsby is listed as the owner of several horses
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This was my late mare. Ribbon stuff was not fun for her. We managed, but it was not something she enjoyed.
