Can we make shows better for horses?

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I mean… you’re not wrong, but I agree with the other poster that most aren’t paid very much.

These days, there are so many pros parading around as amateurs as part of their barn’s master plan, it’s ridiculous. So it’s becoming less and less enticing to just ride with the “ammys like us”. It’s a crapshoot of scamateurs and true ammys just trying to survive. The AO jumpers have riders that are capable of placing in grand prixes and the AO and adult jumpers are a mishmash of ex-jr hunter pros, siblings and spouses of pros, and it’s a good time. It feels like part of the ammy world has become a business of getting a horse saleable to a jr or ammy by giving it miles and a record with a slick scammy. I saw one that actually rolled in to a barn where I was riding, told trainer selling horse that they were fine just getting on, and jumped around the whole course by themself at 3’6. Rode like a pro and didn’t miss. “Trainer”/spouse stared at phone, took calls outside of ring, and didn’t even bother talking to the individual til they were off the horse. Horse was being bought as a sale project. Selling agent trainer just set jumps and shared a few highlights of horse. That’s it.
It feels the same in the USHJA schooling classes, except that you need to be a bit more accurate and usually wait til midnight for your under saddle.
Yes, the rules have become more stringent, but from the looks of some of the classes lately… no one is blowing the whistle as I counted at least 2 or 3 that we were working for other trainers last winter that were showing as amateurs this month, so I have a tough time believing that they reclaimed their ammy status for “the love of the sport” or because they weren’t being paid anymore. The problem is that I think people are afraid of getting it wrong and being viewed as whistleblowers or snitches. It’s such a grey area because some of those horses are for sale, and they’re just riding their own horses or horses owned by them, so I guess people just aren’t sure and don’t say anything.

[StormyDay]

@kaya842

My non factual guess is that he is designated pro as he is paid to ride horses owned by not him. I haven’t checked his horses’ USEF/ FEI profiles but I’d guess he doesn’t own all of them. But can’t discount declaring pro simply to not worry about ammy defining rules.

This is probably it. I assumed he owned all of his horses.

[jaj]

Me too.

[Tha_Ridge]

@kaya842

My non factual guess is that he is designated pro as he is paid to ride horses owned by not him. I haven’t checked his horses’ USEF/ FEI profiles but I’d guess he doesn’t own all of them. But can’t discount declaring pro simply to not worry about ammy defining rules.

I actually think most horses are owned by him or his mom, but I’d guess the real reason for being pro is that I suspect he acts as a broker or agent on many horse sales. That’s one reason I’ve considered giving up my ammy status and I’m nowhere near that level, just good at selling horses and networking.

[skipollo]

[quote=“Tini_Sea_Soldier1, post:62, topic:780319”]
saw one that actually rolled in to a barn where I was riding, told trainer selling horse that they were fine just getting on, and jumped around the whole course by themself at 3’6. Rode like a pro and didn’t miss.
[/quote]

I mean, I am happy to do that an I am very definitely an amateur.

Yeah for real, people complain that a rider can comfortably get on a horse and pop around a bigger course with skill but also complain about “riders these days!” and how they all get stuck at 2’6” and are dependent on trainers prepping the horses for them during the week and how “back in my day we actually rode and jumped big fences.”

Like what do people want

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I remember watching the A/O class at Devon a few years back, and most of the competitors were former equitation kids and top juniors temporarily taking a break before going pro going to college, a few spouses of trainers, and, I hate to say it, more ordinary folk with non-horse jobs (based on the little intros for the riders) who didn’t do nearly as well in the placing.

It’s not necessarily nefarious but more a reflection of the money and depth of horseflesh needed to succeed nowadays.

Even if Karl Cook has no need for money, he may still want to run his training operation like a separate business and pro, versus live like a trust fund kid, though he certainly could afford to do so. He’s been very skilled at promoting himself online (not just because of his former celebrity marriage), but even if he’s not in a hardscrabble position, that doesn’t mean he can “afford” from a competitive stance to retire a top horse at the drop of a hat.

Again, I don’t think it’s fully possible to “read” the horse based upon the few clips that were highlighted–many horses that seem to be seasoned pros with long and fairly undramatic careers have had their “moments,” but on the other hand that doesn’t mean there isn’t an issue. My only surprise is his inability to “read the online room” and talk about being “scared” to ride the horse.

[Tha_Ridge]

Karl posted a cute clip on Instagram of the mare enjoying turnout yesterday—which is more than we can say for another (former) top showjumper.

[Foitin]

Agreed on the money and horseflesh in terms of the A/Os. I ride in the olders and attest to the wealth required for success and having been in the business for a long time. But some of these ladies are also really exceptional riders. The champ at Devon (and very successful at indoors) had made a switch from reining if I remember correctly. She can ride the pants off her horses, it is really a sight to see, and she is also very kind and encouraging to the less competitive (like me). I had a couple friends from my area at Devon this year and we are all working in different professions, some of us with families, and with one horse in the division and one difference is consistency in finding the jumps and having a horse that jumps a 10 every time. We are the legit ammy ladies and placing in a group like that is a mix of pure luck for us and bad luck for several top contenders (rails, spook, sticky change). I find that the regular ammy ladies have better luck in the handy classes where more things can go wrong across the board!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Totally! It’s not impossible, but obviously, even having the money and time to train as an amateur at a barn where you can ride other horses (besides your own) that always jump a “10” can be a great help, practice-wise.

[Equibrit]

I’d say Karl Cook was a pro. He works for his Mommy; https://www.pomponioranchstallions.com/
https://www.yardandgroom.com/Jobs?Country=US&PostalCodeId=728451

[kaya842]

Said former jumper was quick to come to his “aide” on his reaction post on IG and I’m sure quickly regretted it due to the comments directed at her re the turnout situation.

[MHM]

What, now?

[MHM]

@Equibrit

I’d say Karl Cook was a pro. He works for his Mommy; https://www.pomponioranchstallions.com/
https://www.yardandgroom.com/Jobs?Country=US&PostalCodeId=728451

I appreciate the fact that people skills are pretty far down the list of job requirements for the groom ad. Lol.

[Montanas_Girl]

@Equibrit

Breed horses with a better temperament and be a better horse keeper/trainer/rider. What is needed is to make better horses for shows.

This. Brains and temperament are crucial and too often overlooked in breeding decisions. It is possible to select for horses that are mentally suited to the job of being show horses.

My current show horse is an excellent example. At her first show under saddle (third show ever), my trainer called me during the lunch break worried that she was colicky. Why? She was lying down napping in her stall. No worries; she’s just that relaxed at horse shows. She eats and drinks great, naps like a champ, and is just a happy little show pony. Funnily enough, she HATES being stalled at home (stall walks like a fiend), so I keep her out 24/7 except in severe weather. But she is perfectly content in a stall at shows, probably because there’s so much interesting activity there.

[BroncoMo]

Totally agreed. I was once told by a purely open hunter coach that the reason QHs usually are so broke is we just make them deal with situations. We also breed (as a whole) for good brained animals. But we also have expectations for them. If one gets a little gnarly when fresh or spooky at a certain corner of the arena, I’m not going to growl and “ahh ahh” at them. Oh no, we are going to go over to that corner, we are going to school as if that corner isn’t scary, and we are going to get over ourselves. I won’t get nasty with them but I do expect my horses to be mannerly and well behaved, even if the situation gets a bit uncomfortable.

[Rumorhasit93]

It doesn’t matter who owns the horse. I can show in the AO’s even thought I’m not the owner of my horse, but a family member is.

I’m guessing it’s for sponsorship or “partnership” reasons (I think he is affiliated with Meyers and GPA?). I’m also not 100% clear on rules pertaining to training and selling horses…

[MHM]

@Rumorhasit93

I’m also not 100% clear on rules pertaining to training and selling horses…

I believe you can buy and sell any horse you own and still be an amateur. As soon as you start to buy or sell a horse that does not belong to you, that makes you a professional according to the amateur rules.

That is a relatively recent rule change in the big picture, probably within the last 15 or 20 years. Before that you could sell horses for other people and still be an amateur as long as you did not take money to teach or train.

[Pokerface]

@skipollo

Like what do people want

They want to complain about other people .

[redandwhite]

this scenario sounds like my idea of heaven, tbh.

[DawgLady]

@Bending_Line

Based in title, I was hoping this might be a broader discussion of more on site turn out, grass for hand grazing, hacking trails, limiting multi week shows, etc. I worry that horse shows are not that great for horses.

I was thinking it. Glad you said it.

Horse shows kinda suck for horses. For the most part, they’re shoved in 12x12 boxes for days on end (sometimes weeks) with no turnout. They only leave the stall to be groomed, lunged, or ridden (or maybe hand walked if you’re a conscientious owner). It’s a strange new environment, which is anxiety-inducing to most horses. Oftentimes, they are separated from their friends (my horse’s turnout buddy doesn’t show). And it’s exhausting for them. Really, what’s in it for the horse?