Seriously??!! LMAO. Unbelievable. You forget Corinne that those of us dealing with you have texts and emails and messenger screenshots to PROVE what a load of crap this is. It’s so incredibly insulting and ludicrous that you would even suggest that this whole mess is someone else’s fault. And so laughable also that your “dear friend” that is capable of collecting a stallion etc etc could not tell the difference between these two horses, especially as apparently Cartel is somewhere around the 15hh mark LOL. How about the number of times you told me YOU personally were collecting the stallion and then would come up with a last minute excuse as to why you couldn’t that day and how you had NO help? You are losing track of all the lies you’ve been telling so many people but we are talking to each other and sharing documentation. So go right ahead and keep telling your fairy tales but there are many of us who are not going to just walk away from this. You should be so ashamed but instead you have the nerve to come on here with some pity party and then play the blame game on top of it. Disgusting and despicable.
Wowsers
Here’s some basic reference information about Canadian Fraud law for the “understanding” mare owners… there seem to be some hefty criminal penalties inclydjng jail time for certain situations …
http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/fraud.htm
A good breeder friend of mine who breeds sporthorses and runs a large cattle operation as well has also referenced something called the Canadian Pedigree Act (I think - I might have the title wrong) before to me. Coincidentally, during a discussion about the importance of DNA verification of parentage in Sporthorses… Apparently it applies to all manner of livestock. She had some situation years ago where she and her husband were sold a bull that they used for breeding, but his pedigree wasn’t what it was advertised as… there were a ton of awful complications related to calving the following season, after which they investigated the bull’s DNA and discovered the issue. I believe many of the calves died… not good. I’m not sure what their legal outcome was in the end, but I think she told me that law in particular applied somehow or other to her situation. Maybe it would in the case of a misrepresented breeding stallion too. A question for a Canadian lawyer I guess.
I can’t imagine how frustrating it is to spend time and money on lawyers, after spending lots of time and money on vet bills and breedings that turned out this way. Plus, now you have foals from an unapproved stallion to invest in raising and developing… and you know your ROI will be limited given the bloodlines. Hopefully they all grow up to be coincidentally nice riding horses for some lucky amateur… stranger things have happened.
Good for you all on organizing and going public. Fight the good fight.
for those wondering; DNA tests cannot detect clones. they are a carbon copy of their original being. I wish you all well on this endeavor. If there is any comforting knowledge it is that the Arab portion of Cartel is a very good sport horse line so don’t write off your foals just yet
A little googling because I was curious. The law my friend was speaking about is the Animal Pedigree Act. It covers a number of issue related to establishing breed associations, and the legal paperwork (registration certificates, transfers of ownership, semen certificates, etc) related to registered animals.
It does have a section concerning “Offences” and specific prohibitions related to these Offences…
[h=6]Prohibitions[/h]
64 No person shall
- (a) knowingly sign or present, or cause or procure to be signed or presented, to a recording officer of any association or of the Corporation any declaration or application in relation to the registration, identification or transfer of ownership of any animal, semen or embryo that contains any material false statement or representation;
- (b) knowingly represent that a certificate of registration or certificate of identification applies to an animal other than the one in respect of which it was issued;
- (c) knowingly represent that a semen certificate or embryo certificate applies to any semen or embryo other than the semen or embryo in respect of which it was issued;
- (d) falsify or alter any certificate of registration, certificate of identification, semen certificate or embryo certificate;
Soooo… Hope you saved all paperwork associated with the semen.
I have no clue what penalties are involved in terms of violating the animal pedigree act, or if anybody ever gets prosecuted for violations. It does appear like the law applies to this situation though. Good luck.
Not exactly. The DNA tests could not detect the foals of a cloned stallion from those of the original. However they could distinguish the stallion from its clone. They are not exactly carbon copy, they have the same nuclear DNA but the clone’s mitochondrial DNA would be from the cell donor. As the stallion provides only the nuclear DNA to its foals, the genetic imput in the foal would be the same.
There is a 2017 Cartel filly for sale in Florida.
Cartel is owned by Ryley Feenie, according to show results from 2016. I wonder if she knows that “dear friend” secretly collected her stallion over and over all summer long between all of those horse shows? I could not find where Cartel is kept, but Ryley lists her trainer as Samantha Aird of Aird Equestrian. Is Cartel boarded at Corrine’s farm?
More Cartel photos. Is he even 15 hands? Either all of those horses are 17 hands, or maybe Cartel is standing in a hole?
https://www.facebook.com/34582123561…type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/34582123561…type=3&theater
Would be interesting to find out where Cartel is boarded because, according to Corinne, Capone was moved from Langley BC (near Vancouver) to Kelowna BC, which is about 4 hours away up the mountains, earlier this summer, where I was then told he suddenly was miraculously available again for fresh semen collections after 2+ years of excuses with no collections forthcoming. AND she told me specifically (and I have screenshots) that SHE HERSELF made this 8 hr+ roundtrip drive to personally collect Capone, so he would only be available at certain times due to the drive. After this supposed move I personally know of 2 people that got fresh collections and mares got in foal. I suspect next year they may regret that…
That’s the next question… how many fresh collections were done in 2017 for 2018 foals. If there is another “dear confused friend” involved, conspiracy statutes might apply.
Cartel looks adorable. But yeah - not what you all wanted.
That one was supposed to be a Capone :no:
[h=6]next page of the online version of the Pedigree Act:
Offence and punishment[/h]
- [B]66[/B] (1) Any person who contravenes any provision of this Act or the regulations [LIST]
- (a) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars; or
- (b) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a fine not exceeding fifty thousand dollars.
Could get expensive if a “per collection” offence…
Where is Aird Equestrian? Location is not noted on their FB page nor do they have a web site as far as I can tell. In recent posts on this topic, I thought someone had mentioned that the reason that was given for Cartel being mistaken for Capone was that Corinne said she had a Capone stallion son on her property and that is how the semen got “mixed up”. Maybe he was boarding there? He is very cute and looks like his Dad. That is probly how she thought she could get away with it if the foals looked similar to Capone. Minus the obvious omission of the fact that registries would eventually prove sire validity through DNA tests.
In the vicinity of Langley BC is Aird’s location
Actually, while Rylie Feenie rode Cartel, there’s nothing stating that she owned him. He is not passported in Canada, at least not currently.
Then why is her name listed as “owner” for Cartel’s entries? On all the other horses she’s shown over multiple years, each horse has someone else’s name listed as owner, not hers. And with some of the horses have been shown at the same show by riders besides Ryley… All of those riders list the exact same name as the horse’s owner as the same person that Ryley has listed.
I have no inside knowledge besides living in the same province, knowledge of our provincial nd nat’l rules, and the reputation of the SO; but will note that listing the horse’s owner on show entries is not definitive by any means. Ownership means having to pay membership, having to sign entry blanks, being a person responsible. Some people like to get around all these things…
Except that the cost of cloning is still very substantial and obviously the foals would test as Capone offspring.
I hope everyone affected is properly reimbursed, though monetary compensation in this type of case can never fully make things right .
Blugal, please do let us know your legal thoughts as/if they come to you. If you can do so without ethics concerns.
Just wow, to that post by the SO. Absolutely lame, dishonest, sorry excuse for a business person.
As both mare owners and stallion owner are posting here, I won’t comment on the legal side, as it could end up prejudicing someone. Best for anyone involved to seek proper in-person legal advice, bringing with them all the facts/documents.
Oh yes, I wasn’t thinking about advice, only observation. I suppose even that might create some sort of difficulty.
