Cattle trailer full of horses overturned on I40 west of Nashville

[QUOTE=7HL;6109974]

I may have said if everyone is so concerned about transporting great distances to slaughter, bring the slaughter houses closer. I personally feel slaughter houses should be close to auctions.[/QUOTE]

Heck, why not just hold the auctions AT the slaughter facility?

One of the great things about living in America is we all have freedom of choice. I chose to support a rescue that does use slaughter as a marketing tool and I got a horse (and a mule) of a lifetime! :yes:

Good point. It’s quite likely this truck crammed with horses was on it’s way to Thermal for HITS. :no::confused:

How dare people posting on this thread try to lead us to believe those horses were slaughter bound! :eek:

[QUOTE=bayou_bengal;6109729]
The truck probably overturned because this operation has a “record” of not following laws designed to make hauling “safe.” It doesn’t matter to me that the horses were being sold to slaughter EXCEPT that the man engaging in this “enterprise” is such a lawbreaker that he is oprating an “unsafe” business on many levels.

Also, as a result of the “accident” it has now come to light via an eye witness report, that this man is cruel and abusuve – beating, poking, prodding the horses he is selling, and not allowing for proper rest periods for the horses or the drivers-- all against various laws and immoral and unethical.

He apparently endangers the lives and livelihoods of others by shipping horses without proper impsection and health certificates, forces drivers to drive longer than the law allows, doesn’t stop for rest periods as required for horses or people. And didn’t pay his employee the money owed him. (This is illegal, too.)

Additionally, according to eye witness reports by a former driver, he not only engages in unlawful and cruel (animal cruelty is also unlawful in most states) behavior, he apparently knowingly colludes with others who break the law and endanger people by administering steriods, and who knows what else to slaughterbound horses that also lack the proper documentation.

In short, this man deserves to be charged for his crimes and serve time for them regardless as to whether he was shipping horses to slaughter or to some dude ranch string. The fact that these horses are being shipped to slaughter is just “icing on the cake” for those of us who oppose horse slaughter. It is just more proof that the horse slaughter pipeline is abusive and cruel in and of itself from starrt to finish, and often times involves criminal activity. Because of lack of documentation on these horses this man shipps, who is to say that some of them were not stolen, for example?

And as for disposing of “all the poisoned” bodies if slaughter is shut down, well my vet says the amount of drugs present in a euthanized horse is not an issue as far as health and safety. I say, they can be buried or cremated. Really, do the slaughter proponents think that the slaughter houses don’t pose a health and safety threat? What do you think happens to the blood and what is left after the meat is stripped from the bones? What about the offal? Do you think all of this magically dissappears because a horse is slaughtered and not euthanized? DUH.

I also believe that horse breeders and owners should all be responsible for the animals they cause to be born or own. Breeders should all have to pay some sort of surcharge as part of the registration process that is set aside to care for or euthanize horses, or breeders should have to pay for licenses if they want to continue to breed hroses is such a down market. Breed associations should stop encouraging wholesale breeding.[/QUOTE]

Are you really trying to say that incident and what came to light about how this fellow is doing business means all that has to do with slaughter is “bad”?

That is like saying all those stories about mismanaged rescues, some starving horses and stealing donated money means all that has to do with rescues is “bad”.

I know some traders that also handled slaughter bound horses and some of them were better horsemen and took better care of their horses than many here would ever know how to, much less do.
Just as we can find good rescues, some posting on COTH.

Knee jerk reactions and generalizing doesn’t always work too well, when you then try to think past that and look at the details.

True. The bleeding hearts would be looser with their money to save them.

One of the great things about living in America is we all have freedom of choice. I chose to support a rescue that does use slaughter as a marketing tool and I got a horse (and a mule) of a lifetime! :yes:

Oh the irony.
Trying to take the choice away from some people, because you don’t like it jives with this exactly how?

Good point. It’s quite likely this truck crammed with horses was on it’s way to Thermal for HITS. :no::confused:

How dare people posting on this thread try to lead us to believe those horses were slaughter bound! :eek:

well, semantics are everything, right?!
In any case, this big rig happened to belong to a broker dealing with meat packers - or other brokers dealing with meat packers. However, away from our cozy world with short distances and many people other companies chose to transport their riding horses or sale stock like this, too. Because it is an economical way to move many horses.

And I sure hope you got the sarcasm, I was trying to lay it on really thick.

In other words, be careful what you wish for, you could actually get it.

BTW, the auctions are open for everybody to buy. Auction=slaughter is just one of the many fallacies in this matter.

Back to the truck accident…

Better yet, why don’t the KB’s build their own slaughter houses right on their properties where they are holding the horses.
Would cut out the middleman and there would be no transport issues except from the auctions they attend back to their feedlot. :winkgrin:

An investigation by the different agencies looking into this incident does take time.
If you are local you can go to the courthouse in the county where charges were filed and request copies of the case thus far for a fee.
Once you have the case number you may be able to check online when hearings/cases are scheduled to be heard infront of a judge.

Well the thing is when bad rescues/‘rescues’ do bad things some of the first people to jump up and down about it are other rescues or rescue-minded folk, cause if they look bad they make us all look bad.

This tractor trailer WAS hauling horses to slaughter.
That there were violations should make EVERYONE who wants slaughter to come back and be conducted within our borders hopping mad, because it is more ammo for those against to point out that the rules to these people in this industry are meaningless and only to be ignored.
If you can not see that…

JackieBlue, there used to be a company here in middle TN that would pick up the horse bodies at the vet’s office (in Williamson and a few other counties) but about 3 yrs ago I was told that “they lost their contract”. Do you know where the hose bodies are /can be put now??? In the Williamson Co dump! Yes, that is what the receptionist at the vets has told me numerous times during our conversations. Or, a person can haul the horse to Pulaski themselves to the rendering co. that used to pick them up. Those bodies had/have poisonous chemicals in them---------I’m just saying. Peace.

Good point.

Besides, if I read Fillabeana’s post below right, they put 38 1400# cows on a double-decker. But the truck in this this wasn’t a double-decker, correct? Which still leaves me with the a huge difference between how COTHers say they “packed their horses in trailers”: someone quoted putting 6 horses on a 16’ stock trailer. If it was 102" x 16’ / 6 horses = 22.66667 sq feet per horse. 7 horses would be 19.45728 Sq feet. If the trailer were only 7’ (84") wide then x 16’ / 6 horses = 18.66666 sq feet @ and even with 7 horses = 16 sq feet per horse.

Considering that the Max semi-trailer dimensions for a livestock trailer are 8’ x 52’ - according to this: http://tntrucking.tn.gov/TCAcodes.html#202

That would be 8’ x 52’ / 38 horses = 10.947368 sq. feet per horse. IF it was a maximum sized trailer under Tenn laws.

With the double-decker, there is at least a third more floor space (probably more than that) so Fillabeana’s cows have 8’ x 78’ / 38 = 16.42105 sq. feet per head. Much more in line with how some here feel the cram there horses into a stock trailer.

Sorry, but how would this be consider reasonable transport and not inhumane? The laws on transport are designed to be just that, humane - not cushy or luxurious - just humane. If cattle get better rides to the feed lots and processing pens than horses, we are just feeding those who are completely against slaughter more ammunition.

What seems pretty clear to me is that these horses were being transported illegally just by the way they were loaded. I have no idea if that effected the accident or not, but it sure didn’t help anything.

BTW - real cattlemen don’t overload their trucks because it just damages their profits for the cows to be stressed. That’s what professionals do.

[quote=Fillabeana;6095934]OK, so before the thread closes, here are my own two cents. Might possibly be worth more than the average post, since I actually HAVE a semi and double decker catle trailer.

There are two compartments in which I would consider hauling my own horses. These are in the front and the back, where there is headroom for the horses (these compartments are not double decker). Now, my horses range from 14.1 to 17.1 hands. If all of my horses were 14.1 and less, I would consider putting them in the double deck compartments. I can stand up completely without ducking, just barely. I am 5’5 1/2". I would either put mats down, or pretty deep shavings for my own horses if they had shoes on. I would not haul a shod horse in a bare diamond-floor aluminum trailer except under duress (evacuation for flood or fire, time constraint to get horse to vet, etc). If a compartment were filled snug with horses, it would be easier for the horses to keep balance and not slip on a slippery trailer floor, so if I DID have to haul said shod horses under duress, I would take enough horses to fill the compartment if I could. I generally haul my horses in an aluminum stock trailer (the ones that look similar to the big double-deckers, with ‘cheese grater’ sides and diamond-tread aluminum floors) with mats put down.

We can fit about 38 cows, weighing around 1300 pounds, in the trailer at one time. Comfortably. Pregnant cows…that are two or three months from calving. The idea is to FILL the compartments, but not pack them super tight. It is absolutely easier for the cattle to travel and balance when they aren’t moving all over. They also tend not to fight or display aggressive behavior when it becomes obvious to the bovine aggressor that the underling won’t get out of the way. The trouble tends to occur when the underling actually CAN move out of the way, but not ‘enough’ out of the way. We also pretty often haul bulls in this and our stock trailer. If you put bulls into the trailer who don’t live together, you’d better pack them snug or they will rattle and bang and hurt either each other or the trailer or both. And if you put fighting bulls on the TOP deck of the trailer, you’d better da##-ed well believe that you will be at risk for turning your trailer on its side. You have to fill a compartment, but not pack it so tight that nobody can move.

We have hauled cattle long distance (two or more days) in the double deck semi trailer and a regular gooseneck, without unloading for the night. The cattle get pushed up snug into one compartment when we are on the road. We open up the trailer compartments, bed it so they can lie down comfortably, and put a tub of water in for overnight, that pretty much gives them the equivalent of a stall for the night. We’ll find a way to let cattle out of the trailer for a night if we have to go more than three days’ travel.

Most reasonably socialized horses can be snug-packed into a trailer without seriously injuring each other.

I would expect trouble with any poorly socialized horses, like stallions living always in a stall or by themselves, or any horse that could not reasonably be turned out in a group.

I would expect trouble if horses who were from differing herds/origins were put loose in a trailer compartment that was not ‘filled completely’.

I would expect trouble trying to pack tall horses into a double-decker compartment.

And I would expect trouble if a driver was tired or otherwise impaired.

I’m sorry to hear of ANY livestock-containing trucks/trailers overturning, and I’m sure a number of these slaughter-bound horses are not well handled, but I won’t be freaked out to hear that someone has horses in a double-deck cattle trailer.
[/quote]

SCFarm

This thread is about an accident and someone breaking laws and not conducting his business right.
No one is defending any of that.

Some are trying to make this about more anti slaughter propaganda.

Much of what those antis are bringing forth is just not so, already explained why plenty.
To keep posting the same and expect any different, well, we can sure keep repeating as much as is necessary, but then, other times, it just doesn’t seem necessary, when we have already tried to explain enough, as in how to haul any livestock and why.

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;6110795]
Well the thing is when bad rescues/‘rescues’ do bad things some of the first people to jump up and down about it are other rescues or rescue-minded folk, cause if they look bad they make us all look bad.

This tractor trailer WAS hauling horses to slaughter.
That there were violations should make EVERYONE who wants slaughter to come back and be conducted within our borders hopping mad, because it is more ammo for those against to point out that the rules to these people in this industry are meaningless and only to be ignored.
If you can not see that…[/QUOTE]

Violations like not having proper health papers? Like these folks?
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=333002&highlight=health+papers

seems there might be a glass house issue with that

Landfills are lined to prevent leachate reaching underground water. That’s absolutely preferable to burying a chemically euthanized or any otherwise extinguished horse on the farm.

true.

However, landfill space is not endless, and we throw enough recycables out…

Personally I don’t get the warm fuzzies over tossing dead bodies in the landfill…

In a properly tended landfill a dead horse liquefies rapidly. Space is not such a problem. Is there really an ideal way to “dispose” of a carcass weighing more than 1000 pounds? I doubt it. Would it be better to render and use the remains for some “greater” purpose than rotting in a dump? If possible, heck yeah.

Yeah, you are right, but it’s the sentiment…

And there I am vehemently pro choice in these maters.
I guess the landfill is the best alternative to slaughter and rendering, especially when chemically euthanized.

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6111562]
Yeah, you are right, but it’s the sentiment…

And there I am vehemently pro choice in these maters.
I guess the landfill is the best alternative to slaughter and rendering, especially when chemically euthanized.[/QUOTE]

sidetrack This is why I’m all for the return of the humane killer and Bell guns. Quicker, cheaper, only issue with disposal is a large mass decomposing so you need either lime or to bury it deep. No harm if scavengers get hold of it, either. Some owners would just have to get past being squeamish about a little blood.

You can’t possibly bury a horse deep enough so that it won’t contaminate water and soil in a way that can prove harmful. That’s why there are laws dictating where and how organic remains can be disposed of.

I have a good friend who lost a cousin because a pickup truck hauling lawn tractors wasn’t hooked up correctly.

Wonder how different this story would have been if the trailer accident had involved a bus load of children and people’s kids had been killed? Thank God, it didn’t.

What happens when innocent people lose their lives?

I just can’t envision that hauling 30 plus horses in a trailer is safe or humane. I’m a prove it to me sort of gal… Is anybody here willing to run an experiment with their own personal horses to demonstrate that it is safe? Just have a couple people from different farms get together their nice horses and without shipping boots, dividers, blankets or bubble wrap-- load up 38 of their show horses, stallions, broodmares heavy in foal, yearlings, and to keep it realistic throw in some mild lamenesses, a navicular or two and a few founders, along with some “rescue horses” who can have their ribs counted and toss in a few 30 year olds for good measure and bonus points. Then drive from TN to the Mexico border. Stop only the minimum amount of times the law requires. Feed and water only the minimum times… the minimum is good enough, right… it’s been proven to be acceptable through countless research studies and lots of taxpayers dollars, right?

At the border… unload the horses and we’ll evaluate before and after pics to show that they are in just as good a shape as when they got on. From what I’m hearing from some folks, they’ll be perfectly hydrated, glossy coated, fat, & sleek without a single scratch on them… and of course… no colics… and everything would be just as sound as when it stepped on the trailer…

So… which COTHers are going to prove to us that they’re right?

[QUOTE=M.K.Smith;6113603]
I have a good friend who lost a cousin because a pickup truck hauling lawn tractors wasn’t hooked up correctly.

Wonder how different this story would have been if the trailer accident had involved a bus load of children and people’s kids had been killed? Thank God, it didn’t.

What happens when innocent people lose their lives?

I just can’t envision that hauling 30 plus horses in a trailer is safe or humane. I’m a prove it to me sort of gal… Is anybody here willing to run an experiment with their own personal horses to demonstrate that it is safe? Just have a couple people from different farms get together their nice horses and without shipping boots, dividers, blankets or bubble wrap-- load up 38 of their show horses, stallions, broodmares heavy in foal, yearlings, and to keep it realistic throw in some mild lamenesses, a navicular or two and a few founders, along with some “rescue horses” who can have their ribs counted and toss in a few 30 year olds for good measure and bonus points. Then drive from TN to the Mexico border. Stop only the minimum amount of times the law requires. Feed and water only the minimum times… the minimum is good enough, right… it’s been proven to be acceptable through countless research studies and lots of taxpayers dollars, right?

At the border… unload the horses and we’ll evaluate before and after pics to show that they are in just as good a shape as when they got on. From what I’m hearing from some folks, they’ll be perfectly hydrated, glossy coated, fat, & sleek without a single scratch on them… and of course… no colics… and everything would be just as sound as when it stepped on the trailer…

So… which COTHers are going to prove to us that they’re right?[/QUOTE]

I have seen dude ranches send hundreds of horse from WY to AZ in the fall and back to WY in the spring in double deckers and the horses were fine.
Those horses were not hurt in any way.
Rodeo horses also travel like that and those are worth more than many show horses.
The BLM used to send horses in DD from the West clear to the adoption pens in the East, regularly to some in FL and that was a very long, more than a day long trip.

Remember, not all DD are the same, some are bigger, some have adjustable floors, compartments, etc.

Why would a trader, if nothing else because they have a small margin of profit on each horse, not take adequate care of them so they stay sound and healthy all the way to slaughter, so they are not turned back as unsuitable once there if they don’t pass inspection?

Every horse unloaded was looked over by an USDA inspector and an TSCRA inspector.
No trailer was opened until inspectors were there and no horse unloaded, at the TX plants, without it.
Horses were turned back if they didn’t comply with their requirements and quarantined if there was a match with a reported stolen one.

Years ago, a local trader, that was a farrier and I happen to be there looking at an OTQH, that I bought, had someone came by and was trying to get him to take his horse with a cut on his ankle, that was not healing properly, to slaughter.
The trader told him no, they would not accept him at the unloading dock, to get him healed all the way or shoot him himself.:eek:
The trader was clearly mad at how that fellow was not caring well enough for the horse.:frowning:

While I am sure there are lowlife horse traders, horse rescues, horse trainers, horse owners, most are not.
Just as with any other, there are good caretakers and bad ones in everything we do.
We need to run the bad ones out and not let those with agendas brand all by them.

If we listen to what the animal rights propaganda tells only, all we hear is about the bad stories of horse abuse and mismanagement.
Tell me any other whole industry, like those that use animals, like agriculture or entertainment, that has mega million non-profit groups out to shut them up as the way they themselves make their millions, like the animal rights groups are.

Animal rights groups are after eliminating all animal use, using abuses to paint it all evil.
There is abuse in all we do, churches, hospitals, nursing homes, schools, Drs offices, government.
I don’t see non-profits asking the general public to have “causes of the moment” drives to outright ban colleges, churches, etc. with relentless, decades long propaganda about the abuses and becoming immensely rich from them.

That is what we have here in these pushes for banning this and that in what we do with our animals because someone was abusive.
Horse slaughter, dairies, rodeo, eventing, you name it, is fair game for animal rights extremists.

We have to keep working to eliminate abuses, but not fall for the propaganda to ban anything based only on some abusers, as some animal rights followers keep insisting we do.:frowning:

Well, trucking accidents do cause loss of life every day. That’s why there are strict rules in place in the attempt to eliminate drowsy drivers from the road ways. Or inspection to keep unsafe rigs off the roads, or overloaded ones. And the DOT rules do not have any wiggle room: the rig is to heavy, you don’t go another inch.