Cattle trailer full of horses overturned on I40 west of Nashville

[annikak]

[QUOTE=NoDQhere;6087950]

What makes this a “story” is that it was a load of horses. In my opinion it would be just as sad if is was ANY animals, even “just” a load of chickens.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Its business to be sure, and perhaps bad business -of which there is a lot of- sad to say.

I hate seeing cows, chickens, pigs hauled that way. I know that people have to eat and that’s the way to get the animals to market. Just think about that dog on top of a certain candidates car… Seeing kitties and puppies hauled packed in, well, it somehow seems as bad as the horses. I realize however, that horses are indeed livestock, despite my heartstrings pulling me the other way. Just doesn’t seem humane to me.

But, here we go on the slaughter issue again- kind of. Haul them in a safe, humane way? Which seems like packing them in might just be the best way overall, might be what they were doing. A horrible accident, and heartstrings get pulled. Separate issues here me thinks.

[Alagirl]

@Angela Freda;6087881

Anyone traveling I40 or the other roads these rigs take should make it their business, one of these times one of these wrecks might kill innocent people sharing that road.

The thing is without making things ‘our business’, things do not get overseen, regulations do not get enforced, and change does not occur.

If there was no wreck no one would have known about this trailer, where it was headed. We would not know that the owner of Three Angels is also suspected to be involved in the feedlot neglect in TX of those rejected slaughter prospects, we would not know he was transporting without paperwork, that this co. had had other wrecks,…

This all came about because he had an accident, and in investigating that accident it was discovered that the co. was suspected or guilty of other things. It’s not like people went snooping and found it, these people played fast and loose and now the entire scope of what they do and what they do not do is revealed. When that happens and they are endangering the lives of other drivers, and ignoring other regulations that effect horses and horsemen [horses traveling through your own state without papers doesn’t bother you?]… well yes, then it is our business.

Unless they hauling 20 tons of illegal drugs, the load is NONYA.
Repeat after me: The load is nobody’s business.

And the infractions the driver commited while turning his rig on it’s side will be subject to traffic court I am sure.

Again: That he was hauling horses has really nothing to do with anything. he would get the same fines if he turned over a load of Charmin.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6087959]
Eliviates you from giving rides to other people. [/QUOTE]

OR me taking work away from professional transport companies…which is the main concern…TN farm tags for semi trucks or trailers are also reciprocal in all states that we border…

the downside is meeting the junior newly minted State Trooper who thinks he’s “gottcha” cause he does not know about “farm tags”

Tamara

[rustbreeches]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6087959]
Eliviates you from giving rides to other people. [/QUOTE]

Also eleviates the need in CO for a CDL if it is for Ag purposes. Don’t know about the rest of the country

[equinelaundry]

When you are hauling on public roads it’s everyone’s business. The fate of others shouldn’t be so callously set aside because you say so. Even if it was Charmin the consequences of tons of toilet paper flying in your face can cause great harm.

Howza 'bout you be his cheerleader when his hearings come up. Heck, I’ll pay airfare.

[deckchick]

[QUOTE=RedMare01;6087315]
How long do cows stay on the trailers? Since there are quite a few slaughterhouses for cows, I would think it would not be a hugely long time. (Truly just curious; I have no clue about the cattle industry).[/QUOTE]

So maybe there needs to be slaughterhouses for horses in the US.

@Cielo Azure;6087443

Horses aren’t cattle. That may be valid for cattle but definitely not for horses. They are taller, more prone to spook, more prone to rear, kick, bite and fight in confined areas. There are some BLM studies that have shown that crowded holding pens are a disaster waiting to happen with horses, not at all like cattle.

Holding pens and transport trailers are two completely different discussions.

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;6087888]umm if you did not want the proper answer for animals hauled in semi length stock trailers why did you read it?

do you really think every horse in this nation is hauled in 12x12 box stalls with standing wraps, cameras and a servant to ride in the back with them?

you use the royal “we” a bit too freely…you cannot leave excess room in semi stock trailers…Bob Hubbard can get away with it in their rigs as they are so UNDERWEIGHT with their 4-6 tons of well wrapped padded and bedded horse meat that their trucks don’t feel them when they move…not at all…but they are making bank on the haul…totally…

go to 16-20 tons of meat (of any species) shifting violently on a curvy road EVEN on a single level trailer and what will you have then…wanna guess?

have you never pulled a bumper pull trailer and felt the horse jerk the pull vehicle to one side as it moves? this is because the animal load has overloaded the capacity of the vehicle

at a certain weight all cargo much be restrained for the safety of all on the road…

Tamara[/QUOTE]

I don’t get why so many are having trouble with this concept. Animals are “restrained” by crowding them, it make everything and everyone safer.

In a perfect world there would be no horse slaughter and every horse would have a loving owner that fed it daily and treated it like Dobbins deserves to be treated.

In the real world there are way too many horses out there, and the slaughterhouses in Mexico and Canada are processing horses as fast as they can.

Before you jump all over me, I too hate the thought of horses being hauled in DD trailers, and horses being inhumanely slaughtered. But really folks, what are the practical options? The feedlots and slaughterhouses are busy for a reason.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=annikak;6087970]
I agree. Its business to be sure, and perhaps bad business -of which there is a lot of- sad to say.

I hate seeing cows, chickens, pigs hauled that way. I know that people have to eat and that’s the way to get the animals to market. Just think about that dog on top of a certain candidates car… Seeing kitties and puppies hauled packed in, well, it somehow seems as bad as the horses. I realize however, that horses are indeed livestock, despite my heartstrings pulling me the other way. Just doesn’t seem humane to me.

But, here we go on the slaughter issue again- kind of. Haul them in a safe, humane way? Which seems like packing them in might just be the best way overall, might be what they were doing. A horrible accident, and heartstrings get pulled. Separate issues here me thinks.[/QUOTE]

That is right, there are several separate issues to consider here, well stated.:yes:

Our ranch horses are hauled in stock trailers tight in there, with other horses they may never have met before and most times saddled.
They don’t mind at all and are fresh when we get there, ready to work all day and be hauled a time or two more if necessary, some times alone, or again packed in there with others.

To say “we don’t care for our horses” because how we manage/haul them, by those that don’t know any better?
Generalizations tend not to be very accurate.
When used to try to insult others, well …

[Alagirl]

@Bluey;6087994

That is right, there are several separate issues to consider here, well stated.:yes:

Our ranch horses are hauled in stock trailers tight in there, with other horses they may never have met before and most times saddled.
They don’t mind at all and are fresh when we get there, ready to work all day and be hauled a time or two more if necessary, some times alone, or again packed in there with others.

To say “we don’t care for our horses” because how we manage/haul them, by those that don’t know any better?
Generalizations tend not to be very accurate.
When used to try to insult others, well …

Yes, you are a BIG MEANY for hauling them this way! :yes:

Considering the information on hauling accumulating over time, I wonder if it is really such a great idea to haul in a 12x12…

[rustbreeches]

Sorry about the ealier post in load size. GVW in CO is 80,000 lbs on Interstate, 85,000 on non- interstate

[Liberty]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;6087900]

ok here you go

2012 Eby ground load…with ramps and cut gates 53 feet long and 102 wide…

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=894972&

Tamara

How would you situate 38 horses on a trailer like this?

If my math is correct for 38 horses, loaded sideways (not slant in order to maximize space), this only gives each horse ~16.5" of room.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6087974]
Unless they hauling 20 tons of illegal drugs, the load is NONYA.
Repeat after me: The load is nobody’s business.

And the infractions the driver commited while turning his rig on it’s side will be subject to traffic court I am sure.

Again: That he was hauling horses has really nothing to do with anything. he would get the same fines if he turned over a load of Charmin.[/QUOTE]

Funny, nothing that you wrote related to what I wrote… it is the publics business when it effects the public.

When drivers are repeatedly having accidents, the driving public needs to know- that is how changes will be made.

When horses are hauled without the proper paperwork, the horse owning public deserves to know- that is how change comes about.

All the noise being made about these guys [who many of us had never heard of before yesterday] is coming from the preventable accident they had, and the discoveries made thereafter about their business practices. The driver made it our business when he wrecked, and yes I would say that even if he was hauling chickens, charmin or tampons… but not here on a Equine forum.

[Liberty]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;6088023]
…The driver made it our business when he wrecked, and yes I would say that even if he was hauling chickens, charmin or tampons… but not here on a Equine forum.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, anyone’s actions on the road are the business of everyone else sharing that same road.

On my local news website yesterday was a report of a tractor-trailer wreck on a 2-lane. Trucker went over the double yellow on a curve. Guy coming the other way in a pick-up truck tried to get out of the way, but was unsuccessful. Truck trailer basically “pancaked” the pick-up truck’s cab, killing the pick-up truck driver. Tractor-trailer driver was uninjured, and you could hardly see any damage on his trailer.

Oh, and yes, the names of both drivers were published.

[Alagirl]

@Angela Freda;6088023

Funny, nothing that you wrote related to what I wrote… it is the publics business when it effects the public.

When drivers are repeatedly having accidents, the driving public needs to know- that is how changes will be made.

When horses are hauled without the proper paperwork, the horse owning public deserves to know- that is how change comes about.

All the noise being made about these guys [who many of us had never heard of before yesterday] is coming from the preventable accident they had, and the discoveries made thereafter about their business practices. The driver made it our business when he wrecked, and yes I would say that even if he was hauling chickens, charmin or tampons… but not here on a Equine forum.

Ok, one more time, I type slowly:

Business practices have not a damned thing to do with the truck ending up in the ditch.

What they put on the truck is nobody’s business, horses, pigs or unicorns. You do understand that?!
Don’t come with the cop-out of ‘horse forum’

Yes, a semi truck ending up in a ditch is public business. But not for the reason you want it to be.
A truck hauling rebar steel ending up on it’s side is public business, a driver falling asleep driving an empty rig is public business.
Or a truck being overloaded.
Or cargo that is not properly restrained.

Where the truck was headed is irrelevant.

Now, aside from there being horses on the truck, what is discussion worthy of this wreck?

That the farm does business with a shady feedlot in Texas? Not in this context.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6088039]
Ok, one more time, I type slowly:

Business practices have not a damned thing to do with the truck ending up in the ditch.

What they put on the truck is nobody’s business, horses, pigs or unicorns. You do understand that?!
Don’t come with the cop-out of ‘horse forum’

Yes, a semi truck ending up in a ditch is public business. But not for the reason you want it to be.
A truck hauling rebar steel ending up on it’s side is public business, a driver falling asleep driving an empty rig is public business.
Or a truck being overloaded.
Or cargo that is not properly restrained.

Where the truck was headed is irrelevant.

Now, aside from there being horses on the truck, what is discussion worthy of this wreck?

That the farm does business with a shady feedlot in Texas? Not in this context.[/QUOTE]
Off the top of my head, and I will afford you the same courtesy of typing slowly:
They transport[ed] horses through various states without proper paperwork.
They are suspected of being involved in a heinous neglect case, you do believe ALL horses deserve to be fed and watered, do you not?

See this is where the pro-slaughter folks lose credibility… you say you want plants reopened here in the states and that regulations will be in place and enforced… and yet when faced with a pro-slaughter person who does not follow regulations, all kinds of excuses come forth for why it’s none of our business’ what these people do. You just can not have it both ways, sorry.
If you mean it about having regulations and enforcing them, then you would understand what this companies actions mean and object to them as well.

[Graymaresrule]

@deckchick;6087993

In the real world there are way too many horses out there, and the slaughterhouses in Mexico and Canada are processing horses as fast as they can.

Before you jump all over me, I too hate the thought of horses being hauled in DD trailers, and horses being inhumanely slaughtered. But really folks, what are the practical options? The feedlots and slaughterhouses are busy for a reason.

Yup, they are busy because people want to eat horsemeat and are willing to pay for it. If there were no buyers for horsemeat, if they couldn’t make a profit, there would be no slaughterhouses, no matter how many excess horses there were.

[Alagirl]

@Angela Freda;6088055

Off the top of my head, and I will afford you the same courtesy of typing slowly:
They transport[ed] horses through various states without proper paperwork.
They are suspected of being involved in a heinous neglect case, you do believe ALL horses deserve to be fed and watered, do you not?

See this is where the pro-slaughter folks lose credibility… you say you want plants reopened here in the states and that regulations will be in place and enforced… and yet when faced with a pro-slaughter person who does not follow regulations, all kinds of excuses come forth for why it’s none of our business’ what these people do. You just can not have it both ways, sorry.
If you mean it about having regulations and enforcing them, then you would understand what this companies actions mean and object to them as well.

You are tempting me to quote (or paraphrase) SNL

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6088072]
You are tempting me to quote (or paraphrase) SNL

[/QUOTE]

Well that’s interesting, I fail to see how SNL, though hilarious, is relevant.
It doesn’t really answer the question of why the pro-slaughter posters consistently say they will be all for regulations of the industry if it comes back and enforcing those regulations… and want us to all shut up and ignore this incident of regulations ignored, broken or unenforced.

Do you or do you not believe that regulations should be enforced, even in this case?

[deckchick]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;6088067]
Yup, they are busy because people want to eat horsemeat and are willing to pay for it. If there were no buyers for horsemeat, if they couldn’t make a profit, there would be no slaughterhouses, no matter how many excess horses there were.[/QUOTE]

What is your point? Mankind has been eating horses since, well since there were horses I assume.

You and I may find it disgusting, but lots of people don’t. If they are processing horses per regulations, then I really can’t and won’t complain about it. If they are not, I am right there with you objecting.

[7HL]

@equinelaundry;6087992

When you are hauling on public roads it’s everyone’s business. The fate of others shouldn’t be so callously set aside because you say so. .

That should go to ALL that are hauling, from a Benderup to Stocktrailer. Buying a bumper pull and attching it to a SUV doesn’t make someone qualified to haul horses. Licensing and inspections for ALL towing and hauling.

[Cielo_Azure]

I went to this site:
http://www.wkrn.com/story/16531100/overturned-cattle-truck-closes-both-directions-of-i-40

"Over the phone Tuesday, owner Dorian Ayache told Nashville’s News 2 media reports that the horses were being transported to a slaughterhouse in Texas are untrue.

He said the horses were on their way to a range in Oklahoma where they were to be prepped to be sold to horse owners."

But then this:
“The Humane Society of the United States says it has been reported to them that the majority of the horses had green tags, a typical indicator they are bound for slaughter.”

There is an address of their “home,” where the horses were taken:
“Ayache said the horses are dirty but in good health. He said they are back on his farm, located at 151 Mill Road in Lebanon, but he refused to grant News 2 access to the property.”

So, I earth mapped the property -it showed a very intersesting set-up. Clearly, they are hauling livestock (horses) bound for slaughter. Note the barn, fencing chute, loading barn and semi parked being loaded. That is no training barn!

Why should the public be involved and outraged? Because when bad accidents happen, weaknesses in the system are exposed. This man is lying (multiple times -like saying the horses are in good shape…sure…or that they are off to a range in OK…yeh, can I sell you a bridge in Brooklyn?), unwilling to allow media access and the horses being transported were not being done so in a humane manner without required paperwork. This isn’t about “slaughter,” this is about transport and breaking the law and “us” (the public) allowing the law to continue to allow inhumane shipping of animals (and in my opinion that includes other livestock, such as poultry).

When authorities are most likely concluding that laws were broken “Truck driver Reed is expected to face a series of charges.” and “The accident remains under investigation.” honestly, pro slaughter or not, one has to conclude that yes, the public has every right to be skeptical and those of us in the horse business better be in that business or it will eventually bite us in the arse.

As an aside, should the public not be outraged at the cruise ship in Italy that just went down with people dying because it isn’t our business? Of course, to answer anything but that is silly. That accident has exposed the lack of safety laws regarding cruise ships that include using multi-national corps to circumvent laws in one country by using shell companies in another. Likewise, this accident may have exposed some very unethical loopholes in the current system of horse transport and shown just how easy it is for shippers to break the law. Time will tell.

When bad accidents happen, people get to look into the closet and let in some light. That is one of the great things about having a free press and an informed public.

8X52=416/38 =11 (roughly 2x5 foot area each horse -assuming all sq footage on the semi is being used for horses). Anyone who has worked around horses knows that horses are not cattle that that the stories of horses with broken legs, etc coming off such open trucks is common. Jeez…I was an animal science major at UC Davis in 1980s -I don’t think much has changed. Anyone in the business who denies this is trying to blow smoke somewhere in our nether regions.