Charlotte Jorst buys Lorenzo - which pipeline did they come through ?

[ladyj79]

@TwoTrickPony

lady–You have your opinion, and I get your have your view of how your friend is going through things. Way back when I had a friend on the edge of the Olympics, too, with top horses. One was sold, and the other didn’t quite make it.

I can see you clearly feel CJ should “keep” all of these horses. I am giving you another opinion, and I think it’s shared by many people. I don’t see your point in her other horses being 14 and 15. It seems a perfect age to allow someone else the ride she is not going to ride them, just as Steffen and Akiko gave the ride of Legolas to another younger, up and coming rider.

We clearly have different views of this. If it is a business, maybe she should sell these rides. If it’s not a business, as with Akiko, then maybe she should think of expanding her influence since she is so fortunate.

But she is going to ride the other horses as well. Because other than Laura Graves, everyone else shows multiple horses at the FEI level. It is a very very rare rider who only has one horse for all the reasons I listed previously.

I think it’s odd that “many people” think Charlotte Jorst should give up her rides.

Can you explain, do you think everyone should only be competing one horse? Because as I mentioned previously, Laura Graves having only one horse at the FEI level is very much the exception.

[Dutchmare433]

@TwoTrickPony

lady–You have your opinion, and I get your have your view of how your friend is going through things. Way back when I had a friend on the edge of the Olympics, too, with top horses. One was sold, and the other didn’t quite make it.

I can see you clearly feel CJ should “keep” all of these horses. I am giving you another opinion, and I think it’s shared by many people. I don’t see your point in her other horses being 14 and 15. It seems a perfect age to allow someone else the ride she is not going to ride them, just as Steffen and Akiko gave the ride of Legolas to another younger, up and coming rider.

We clearly have different views of this. If it is a business, maybe she should sell these rides. If it’s not a business, as with Akiko, then maybe she should think of expanding her influence since she is so fortunate.

But they’re her horses…she bought them, she rides and competes them. She can also assure these horses good care and easy retirements. People talk on here all the time about that point…you cannot assure a horse’s retirement unless you do it yourself. And, she’s still riding these horses, surely it’s helpful for her to ride multiple GP/upper level horses every day.

Should I give my horse away to someone who couldn’t afford to buy one but could probably take him up the levels faster or score higher? Should I also continue paying all his bills?

[SnicklefritzG]

Very good points, particularly about Akiko.

@TwoTrickPony

Leave Mardi alone and stop making assumptions about what she does or does not think. She started an interesting thread that brings out a lot of what is right and wrong in dressage.

2tempe–Thanks for the link on Adrienne’s new horse. Akiko is a lovely rider and beat the pants off me on Chopin at the last championships. She has a lot of money and is buying really nice horses, some for herself, and some for Steffen and other people. I think a lot of us would like to see more super rich people like this (CJ) not only use that extreme wealth for herself, but to do what Akiko does, and give more talented some top horses to ride. So, CJ has four/five top horses? Maybe for her own sake compete the one she likes the best, and use that talent to give some other people a ride. I was thinking that as I saw the WC in Sweden (?) she went to. She went on a top horse, but didn’t have the experience to do what she could with him. Guenter went on a very talented green international horse, and did a phenomenal job doing the best he could with them. Hey, why not give the ride on one of her extra horse to Geunter so we have a stronger presence? I think that would change how people are thinking about this.

Maybe turn this into praise for Akiko and her great accomplishments in helping bring up US dressage with the resources she has, where she not only competes phenomenal horses herself (and gets to ride Ravel for fun!) but she is really helping the whole US sport. European riders have man, many supporters like this. Imagine if our riders had the support that people like Isabel have? She can pick from any one of many top horses she has.

The rest of us are just doing the best we can with what we have and enjoying our journey.

[ladyj79]

While Akiko has competed a handful of times at the FEI level, she is not a professional dressage rider. Her role is largely as a sponsor of other riders. She rides because she likes to ride, not because it is her profession.

Charlotte Jorst is a successful FEI competitor.

These are not comparable. Unless the suggestion is that Charlotte should give up her competitive dreams in order to sponsor other younger riders.

That sure sucks. In my opinion.

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

I think that people hate on Charlotte Jorst because she is unapologetically ambitious and she is an independently wealthy woman. This is woman on woman sexism. We adore Charlotte Dujardin because she was a groom that clicked with a difficult horse, and a Cinderella story began. And we adore Laura Graves because it is another story about a sweet, hard working girl finding a difficult horse and made it to the Olympics. Another fairy tale. Jorst is throwing her money around and making things happen because she has a goal, and no one else is going to help her get to the top. And yet that bothers people. I guess because there is nothing sweet or cute or ladylike about it. Someone said it before, if this was a man buying Lorenzo, and saying that he intended for this horse to help him make it to WEG, we wouldn’t even be talking about it. Men are supposed to be ambitious, women aren’t.

I would be nice to see Jorst be a team player, and consider helping a younger rider out by lending them one of her more maxed-out rides. Not like “give it away” but pay it forward. I’m sure that she recognizes that she is in an unusual position, to have the funds to buy pretty much any horse she wants, and the interest and ability to be competitive against the best of the best. Perhaps she would consider lending one of her horses out to a promising U-25 rider, that way she wouldn’t ever compete against her own rider.

[ladyj79]

If I were in Jorst’s position, at her age, I certainly would not be giving up any of my top rides with WEG one year out and the Olympics three years out.

I can’t imagine any rider doing that.

It’s another matter entirely if she decides she’s done with one, but I have literally never heard anything remotely like these suggestions coming out of a professional rider’s mouth. My rider doesn’t even go to his brother and say well you have too many nice horses and are rich so give me one. Odd. Very odd.

[TwoTrickPony]

lady and those who agree with you, you clearly have your opinion. Others, like me, think something different. It is a little surprising to me some people think that if they had a string of really nice horses, but someone could do better with one of them, they wouldn’t consider an option like that.

I have no interest in selling my horses, but I know I have some super talent that I cannot ride to their potential. If someone with a lot more talent to ride them came along and could show them to their best and take care of them where I feel good about it, I would probably do it. If Akiko wanted to buy my mare for Steffen as some top level competition and I felt good about it, I would do it. If I were super rich and did not need the money, even though I want to ride these really cool horses, if I found someone who could show them to much better potential, would I give them the ride? In a shot.

I guess we all have different philosophies about this.

Oh, and Akiko has shown more than a handful of times. I see her ride all of the time. No, she is not doing it as a professional rider. Neither is CJ. She doesn’t have anything to prove to anyone or any clients to please. She is basically doing it as amateur with a lot of resources, and she has the ability to do more for this US sport than almost all of us. It would be nice to see her use that in the way Akiko has. No one is saying she should not ride or not enjoy these horses. And please stop saying anyone is saying she should “give up” her rides. She obviously feels the world class horses she has in Akeem and Nintendo will not get her what she wants, so she bought another. And what about the stallion she sent back? That obviously wasn’t the ride for her, but maybe she could have supported Geunter?

[ladyj79]

Akiko is a sponsor who rides some. Jorst is a rider.

here is Akiko’s FEI record. You may see her showing, but not at CDIs. As I said, a handful.

https://data.fei.org/Person/Performa…A7EEF2BCECDF91

it’s cool that people who are nowhere near qualifying for WEG or the Olympics would graciously give up their theoretical horses to better riders.

it’s odd that people are actually critical of a rider who has successfully represented the US in international competitions for not giving up her rides to other people.

again, at present she has three fei horses. This is very very standard for successful fei riders.

I think there is a very very big disconnect between local American amateurs and the world of FEI competitions. She isn’t your talentless ammie who went and bought a schoolmaster to grind out some 60s for her usdf medals.

[see_u_at_x]

@TwoTrickPony

l

Oh, and Akiko has shown more than a handful of times. I see her ride all of the time. No, she is not doing it as a professional rider. Neither is CJ. She doesn’t have anything to prove to anyone or any clients to please. She is basically doing it as amateur with a lot of resources, and she has the ability to do more for this US sport than almost all of us. It would be nice to see her use that in the way Akiko has. No one is saying she should not ride or not enjoy these horses. And please stop saying anyone is saying she should “give up” her rides. She obviously feels the world class horses she has in Akeem and Nintendo will not get her what she wants, so she bought another. And what about the stallion she sent back? That obviously wasn’t the ride for her, but maybe she could have supported Geunter?

Actually, you are wrong. Charlotte Jorst IS a professional rider. She turned pro last year and even started teaching clinics.

[TwoTrickPony]

lady–I do not agree with you. You can go on and on and on and on and on, and I’m still not going to. I think I explained my position pretty clearly.

see u–I didn’t realize. She’s been a pro for whole year! It doesn’t really change what I said. (P.S. Love your sig line.)

[ladyj79]

@TwoTrickPony

lady–I do not agree with you. You can go on and on and on and on and on, and I’m still not going to. I think I explained my position pretty clearly.

see u–I didn’t realize. She’s been a pro for whole year! It doesn’t really change what I said. (P.S. Love your sig line.)

And I don’t agree with you. I’m not “going on and on”, merely responding to your posts. because I disagree with your position. That you keep restating. Oh, and correcting your misstatements. I will continue to do so. Because we’ve been having a conversation.

[ladyj79]

I also have to keep asking, how many horses are too many? Should all riders with three horses competing at grand prix give up horses to other riders?

Steffan Peters is currently showing three horses at Grand Prix. Should he give one up?

if not, why should Jorst?

[TwoTrickPony]

Steffen is a much, much better rider who gets the best out of horses. And he’s been doing it since he was a teenager. And he is a pro making a living off of this.

[ladyj79]

@TwoTrickPony

Steffen is a much, much better rider who gets the best out of horses. And he’s been doing it since he was a teenager. And he is a pro making a living off of this.

So riders you respect can have multiple horses, and others shouldn’t. Thank you for your honesty! That’s all I was looking for.

[TwoTrickPony]

@ladyj79

So riders you respect can have multiple horses, and others shouldn’t. Thank you for your honesty! That’s all I was looking for.

Yep. That’s it. Ignore everything I said and pick out what you want because you can’t understand why I disagree with you.

[ladyj79]

@TwoTrickPony

Yep. That’s it. Ignore everything I said and pick out what you want because you can’t understand why I disagree with you.

Actually I completely understand your argument.

[TwoTrickPony]

@ladyj79

Actually I completely understand your argument.

Right. Sure. You’re always right.

[ladyj79]

Charlotte Jorst is the 51st ranked dressage rider in the world at present. Any efforts to paint her as undeserving of her horses are not simply unfounded but also confounding.

Anyone who thinks you can just buy a made horse and be successful at the international level neither understands not respects the sport.

[SnicklefritzG]

This is about skill, not respect.

@ladyj79

So riders you respect can have multiple horses, and others shouldn’t. Thank you for your honesty! That’s all I was looking for.

[Caol_Ila]

Was there this much angst when Half Moon Delphi was sold from the Eilbergs’ yard to an American rider as a Rio Olympic hopeful (and as far as I remember, didn’t end up competing in Rio)? Or when Painted Black moved from Anky to Morgan Barbancon? Well, there probably was.

Top horses move around all the time. It’s what happens. You still have to be able to ride the things and just because it was a top international horse under one rider doesn’t mean the new rider will have anything like that success. Just ask Matthias Rath.