Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[Tackpud]

The equestrian world has changed from an amateur sport to a high dollar sport in which people want results now. Doesn’t matter the discipline. Look at the young horse tests - why are we asking so much of horses at that age when they should be focused on learning to go forward, turn right and left, stop when asked, and asked to seek the bit out in front of them. No, we want them in a perfect frame by age four and five. Not good for the horse and what destroys them as they age.

It takes years to develop a horse correctly and if not done correctly from the start, even longer to retrain the muscles correctly. But no one wants to wait it out and take the time to get those results. If a trainer won’t get you there fast enough, you move to one who will. Often to the detriment of the horse.

[Jealoushe]

I think people can see why MT did that. I don’t agree with his actions, but you can understand what he was trying to achieve.

Here I just can’t understand. It’s a lesson with a YR. What could possibly be so important that it makes her beat a horse into achieving more hind end engagement. In front of a YR. I can’t wrap my head around it other than anger or emotional issues or some sick enjoyment out of pushing horses. There was very little to gain and everything to lose.

No one is thinking a thing about the horse other than its value to perform.

[roseymare]

@TwiSedai

Whelp, there it is

Looks like there probably were some too

I know they are technically welts but here in my neck of the woods that is often pronounced welps!

[Manni01]

That’s what Anja Beran is preaching. She points out that there is a standard for every movement. If a horse nowadays goes according to the standard it will not be in the ribbons…. She thinks overachieving should be punished the same way as underachieving… for me that makes sense…

[be-here-now]

@Jealoushe

I think people can see why MT did that. I don’t agree with his actions, but you can understand what he was trying to achieve.

Here I just can’t understand. It’s a lesson with a YR. What could possibly be so important that it makes her beat a horse into achieving more hind end engagement.

Yes, there is absolutely a level of complete incomprehensibility with CDJ’s actions.

[Blugal]

If you had gone further on the Wikipedia page, you would have read this:

Gray represented the United States at the Dressage World Championships in 1978, and at the 1991 Dressage World Cup in Paris.[5] In 1980, Gray rode Beppo, a Holsteiner gelding, for the American team at the Alternate Olympics dressage event at Goodwood House, in West Sussex, England.[7][8] In 1988, she competed in dressage on Later On with the United States Equestrian Team in the 1988 Olympics in Seoul.[1][9]

[fivestrideline]

@Jealoushe

Is the test now not attainable without abuse?

I’ve been wondering this.

Maybe doing the tests is possible. But when the UL machine requires so much time and money that many riders are dependent on sponsors and owners (and thus need RESULTS and QUICK), combined with human competitive nature, it is hard to get a horse to that level in the right way. Plus the fact that a horse competing at the UL must be on the road and living in a box a good amount of the time - it isn’t like you can compete locally and then take the horse to the Olympics and expect it to handle the atmosphere.

[2tempe]

One more opinion here: Video definitely not good. IMO not a unique training technique, and obviously one with a range of severity. (as shown in Lendon Gray video somewhere upstream. )

Re the minor-aged rider: As I understand the rider was given a lesson by a sponsor (who turned in the video). In addition to the sponsor, the rider’s mother was also there. So lets start with the two of them: They were the adults in the room. Did they stop the lesson? Were they worried re the rider’s safety? Were they laughing in the background?
The sponsor had the checkbook - so she could have said “no more $ to you after that” Mother could have said “worried my kid will get bucked off” They had the power over this situation.
The rider: if she stopped, CD as trainer can berate her or not see her as dedicated rider. she disappoints her mother and the sponsor who laid out $$ for the lesson. So she is not in a power position.
16ish yr olds do not always make good decisions. (ask me how well I remember). They act first, think later. They do not always have comfortable relationships with parents/teachers/coaches etc.
The rider is off the hook here. The other two are not.

On a different note, the FEI’s very fast reaction to an old video of private farm is commendable. I wish I thought the USEF was that willing to react in the same fashion…

[Jealoushe]

There are a lot of people who are totally fine with this and don’t think it’s abuse.

There is a trainer here in Ontario an acquaintance of mine had her horse in training with. She would go visit her horse and the horse would be covered in welts from the whip. She finally witnessed the beating in person during a training session but she didn’t care, she kept the horse in training for months after.

Horse was so stressed and terrified after it had to be drugged to be ridden almost daily. Can’t do much with him because he’s so scared and spooky. One of the nicest horses I have seen and now completely ruined.

This trainer has a barn full of horses and students that all don’t seem bothered one bit. Just waiting for the day she’s reported.

[LadyB]

I’ve personally experienced a BNT flipping my whip and beating my horse when they got on him. He now has severe PTSD with dressage whips.
This person is well loved, but what they do behind closed doors is no different than this. Its really coming down to “you got caught”. I was 18, I knew nothing, I didn’t like what was happening, but I also said nothing. Do you question a BNT in the moment? You should, but do you? no. Because they should know more than you and better than you, especially as a young adult.

Just scary what is out there. From what the rumour mills say, every BNT seems to be shit with their training methods. I will not paint all with the same brush, but I sure don’t believe there are that many good BNT’s out there.

[anonevent]

Poor kid. In the audio, it sounds like the child is expressing concern that the horse is so panicked that he or she is afraid that the horse will “crash.” I can’t hear what Dujardin says after “If he crashes…” but her action was to keep whipping the horse in the legs. You can hear the (probably) instructor explaining away what is happening to someone who might be a parent expressing concern. It’s a very conflicting position for the child and parent. It’s probably conflicting for the instructor too. Who wants to tell Dujardin that her training is wrong??

I am an adult and I’ve had instructors try to pressure me to do things that were cruel. I’ve left multiple barns because of it and faced some backlash. I’ve dismounted and walked right out. That’s unpleasant but relatively easy for me to do as an adult without Olympic ambitions who doesn’t own a business that would benefit from an affiliation with those trainers. I totally get how a famous trainer could get away with this in plain sight.

[millerra]

I am feeling sad and, well, naive. Having been an eventer/ dressage enthusiast for >40 yrs, I honestly believed training had evolved to be significantly kinder and gentler - having witnessed some pretty harsh training back in the day. Then I read comments like those above and just… sad.

I also feel like when gaits became the base for scoring in big D dressage that the wheels really came of the bus. I would be happy to be part of a movement that wanted training, rather than gaits, to be the major influence of scores. But I am merely a minion (or smurf).

[WavyRider]

This just reminded me of the time I watched a 5* eventer ride my friend’s horse and whack him on the butt with a crop about once a second for a full lap of the agenda at the canter because he “wasn’t listening”.

[sascha]

@Jealoushe Can you please PM me? I’m in Ontario and occasionally get asked for recommendations. I’d like to know who to add to my ‘no way in hell’ list. Thanks.

[CanteringCarrot]

I thought about this too. All of the adults in the room failed the horse and the kid.

[2tempe]

Its sort of coincidental that I just did my Safesport update a couple weeks ago and though a different situation, it got me thinking about the power dynamics.

[preppyeq]

Charles Owen has released a statement and has terminated their relationship with her.

“Charles Owen (COMFG Ltd) Statement on Charlotte Dujardin

Following the allegations yesterday which led to Charlotte Dujardin withdrawing from the Olympic Games in Paris, and the subsequent release of the video referenced in those allegations today, Charles Owen has been in discussions with Miss Dujardin’s Management team.

We will not be commenting on the specific allegations as there is an ongoing FEI investigation into the matter. However, as a globally respected brand known for our work in improving rider safety and promoting horse welfare, Charles Owen considers any actual or perceived mistreatment of any horse to be totally unacceptable at any level of the sport.

Charles Owen and Miss Dujardin have had a successful partnership for many years, but while we understand the sentiment of her public statement, we have decided to terminate our sponsorship agreement with Miss Dujardin with immediate effect.
Dave Derby
Chief Executive Officer
Charles Owen (COMFG Ltd)”

[snaffle1987]

I have seen the video and I am not at all shocked given the whispers in the dark for a long while now.

It’s disgusting and inexcusable and anyone defending any ounce of the footage and proper use of the long whip, etc should dismiss themselves from the sport or be banned with Charlotte. There is ZERO justification for this type of behavior . Did she actually whip the ride in the process down the longside? What was the rider saying? It looked like she swung at the side of the horse with both hands.

This is not a one off event, I am sorry, but it is not.

And Shame on those who were videotaping and laughing. They are just as much at fault for supporting the behavior and not stopping it instantly. These types of issues are curbed immediately when the perpetrator is stopped and becomes knowingly aware that they are way over the line and it’s been noticed.

At this point I am irate about the dressage sport and most horse sports.
How can anyone in full-faith say that none of the riders representing their country train their horses at home like this everyday? If she is doing so, none of the others are? 2 days ago Charlotte Dujardin was hailed a queen of the sport and held to such a high regard while people knew she was doing this behind the stable walls and those within the sport were WITNESSES to it and supported it!

And whether the video footage was released in order to boost another team’s chances or not is a moot point. Because you’ve just thrown gasoline on the fire for the PETA activitists that have already infiltrated the Olympic Games and their policy making. Those making the video saw no abuse that day. They giggled and watched and laughed about it continue to support such ways even today. Theyve only released the footage to remove her from competition. But in the long run they’ve only hurt their sport and endangered its existence in the modern world.

[Sheasmom2]

Can I copy and share this? I remember the Anky days. Charlotte is the one who turned that all around.

[FitzE]

@snaffle1987

And whether the video footage was released in order to boost another team’s chances or not is a moot point. Because you’ve just thrown gasoline on the fire for the PETA activitists that have already infiltrated the Olympic Games and their policy making. Those making the video saw no abuse that day. They giggled and watched and laughed about it continue to support such ways even today. Theyve only released the footage to remove her from competition. But in the long run they’ve only hurt their sport and endangered its existence in the modern world.

I was with you until this final paragraph. You seem to be arguing for the video not to have been released so that it doesn’t hurt the sport. You seem to have a lot of anger towards the PETA activists.

But the people endangering the existence of these sports in the modern world are the people like CP, MT, and CDJ wielding the whips and branches and beating the animals, not the people releasing the videos.

Unless your point is the sport can only survive if everyone agrees to keep the silence and not publicly expose any of this behaviour. And that’s going backwards, not forwards.