Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[sparkygrace]

@FitzE

I’ve seen several posters here reference the fact that she lost her temper or got to this point or was taking out her frustrations on the horse.

I was speaking in general terms. Mostly because I have seen this in real life. in fact 45 years worth of being around dressage trainers. I saw horses that freaked out at the end of their test because they knew they were going to be violently schooled afterward. Trainers that were too ambitious and pushed too hard. Despite this, I did work with good people. I avoided the bad trainers.

[BatCoach]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

My first impression is that it reminds me of the Mark Todd video chasing the horse into the water with the branch–it’s almost bizarre seeing one of the most decorated riders in the sport behaving like a bad horse trainer at the worst backyard barn teaching an up-and-down lesson kid how to canter on a lame lesson horse. Even with the giggling in the background.

This was my gut reaction as well. There are a few BNT / riders that I would not be surprised had a video like this, but I thought Charlotte, while not perfect, was one of the good ones. Crap ‘training’ like this comes only from ignorance (backyard trainers) or impatience (BNT trying to get a big result to justify their price tag? BNT burnt out on teaching lessons?) Charlotte knows better. Its inexcusable.

I told non-horsey DH that this was the equivalent of a well-respected sports star like Clayton Kershaw admitting to doping. Someone that you thought played the game earnestly and was a good example younger generations could look up to was just revealed to taking cheap and damaging shortcuts that undermine the whole spirit of the sport. I’m no hero worshiper - but it seems like it is harder to find good examples of horsemanship in the Pro/GP levels.

@millerra

I also feel like when gaits became the base for scoring in big D dressage that the wheels really came of the bus. I would be happy to be part of a movement that wanted training, rather than gaits, to be the major influence of scores. But I am merely a minion (or smurf).

Agreed. If we need to beat, choke, pony kick and spur horses to get GP international level work - then its not worth doing. Dressage is supposed to make the horse better, not make them break down mentally and physically. I’d be happy to see the leg-moving, toe-flinging ‘brilliance’ exit stage left in favor of less tense, happier horses.

[Jealoushe]

I can’t understand this

[Jealoushe]

@alicen

And you’re saying nothing because …?

What would you like me to say to whom? I’ve voiced my opinion to her and tell anyone who asks about her but without photos or witnessing it myself, or the person not co operating what should I say and to whom?

[FitzE]

Google translate - point your phone at it, choose the languages, use the camera option.

[cayuse]

I’m late to the thread, I just saw the first half of the video and I’m completely disgusted. I’m also disgusted that the rider let this go on. Whoever they are, they are equally as guilty. If someone did that to a horse I was in charge of/owned there’d be hell to pay.

[Jealoushe]

I’m on my phone

[Joanne]

This news is now being reported by the New York Times.

[preppyeq]

I’m in the same situation. I left a barn last year. I voiced concerns over training and horse care. I was brushed off, told I was crazy, and in one instance I was confronted by the barn manager in a way that I thought I was going to get decked. What I saw was very similar to what Charlotte was doing in this video. I have no proof though. Where do I go from here? Her students idolize her. They think she can do no wrong and won’t speak out. It’s my word against theirs.

[blue_heron]

Yes, I’m a trainer. Not a BNT by any means, but I sure do train horses.

Should I go back and edit it my post so it’s clearer that I meant horses don’t understand kindness in the same way humans do? Horses need boundaries and fairness to develop a mutual respect for each other. That is what kindness is to them. You can be as “kind” as you want to a young stallion and he will eventually test you. Every trainer I know had handled a horse that has been over-loved. These horses are anxious and dangerous to handle.

[FitzE]

It actually hit the NYT really early this morning (I start every day with the NYT - sadly these days at 4:30 AM )

[Jealoushe]

I think it’s nearly impossible to do anything without evidence and in my case I didn’t witness it, just the person I know told me all about it because she was feeling not great about her horses obvious welts. But the drive to succeed kept her there I guess. If I report it they will call her likely and would she admit it happened then? Doubtful.

[blue_heron]

For what it’s worth, I think we lost the plot on criticizing abuse when “the locals” started calling riding with the nose 1 deg. behind the vertical Rollkur. It’s so frustrating.

[rothmpp]

@cayuse

I’m late to the thread, I just saw the first half of the video and I’m completely disgusted. I’m also disgusted that the rider let this go on. Whoever they are, they are equally as guilty. If someone did that to a horse I was in charge of/owned there’d be hell to pay.

Let’s be clear - this was a minor. I really love the way that so many people on here at a more advanced age claim they never would have allowed this at 16 years old. I call BS on most posters saying this. We are older and wiser than we were at 16 (or I certainly hope so). I sincerely doubt the majority of those who claim they’d have stopped the lesson would have the knowledge or fortitude at this rider’s age to put a stop to a training session with an Olympic gold medalist.

This is not meant to excuse the parents/sponsors for not standing up or CDJ’s behavior that day, just to point out that the rider is basically a child. So many times we are expected to excuse the behavior of kids because “they are kids who don’t know better”. Stop with the double standards (the board in general, not specifically directed at @cayuse). Pick a lane.

But just my opinion and I expect many have a different take on the whole thing

[awesomenessity]

Yes I sure do! Feel free to message me any time on here or on FB. I use almost exclusively R+ now but have a long history in traditional and natural horsemanship training worlds. Currently raising a very spicy and opinionated WB filly using R+ with good success!

[SadieRidingHorses]

To add to this very good (and much better) point that the rider was a minor, with an inherent power disparity with CDJ, in the moment, the rider might have been in the worst position to understand what was happening. She was no doubt trying to concentrate on getting the horse to do whatever it was being asked of it, and she did not have the same vantage point as the person holding the camera on the whipping (as the rider was facing ahead). Not saying the rider could not have watched the video afterwards and been horrified. But again, in the moment, she may not have processed it the same way as people on the ground (or watching a recording taken from the ground).

[sascha]

@blue_heron

Should I go back and edit it my post so it’s clearer that I meant horses don’t understand kindness in the same way humans do? Horses need boundaries and fairness to develop a mutual respect for each other. That is what kindness is to them. You can be as “kind” as you want to a young stallion and he will eventually test you. Every trainer I know had handled a horse that has been over-loved. These horses are anxious and dangerous to handle.

“Over-loving” is also not kind to humans. Those children/adults become spoilt and, while not necessarily dangerous, potentially unpleasant members of society.

Setting boundaries and sticking to them IS kindness. Feeding as many treats as you want as long as you make sure boundaries are always 100% reinforced is fine. Allowing a horse to grab a treat from you one time because “kindness” is a fatal flaw and is not kind. Reassuring a horse that is nervous with a gentle word and a pat/scratch is kindness.

Horses definitely understand kindness and absolutely blossom when boundaries are fair and 100% reinforced/expected every single day. It’s kindness that needs a better definition

[CindyB59]

Haven’t read all the comments. But other than it being unacceptable, she caused what seems to be a nice horse and causing it to be dangerous to the rider.

[alicen]

@Manni01

For CD in this moment it was about the only way to produce visible results from this lesson…

I don’t think that we are privy to the results of that lesson. Do we know how that horse and rider are doing today?

[Madison]

@FitzE

I’ve seen several posters here reference the fact that she lost her temper or got to this point or was taking out her frustrations on the horse.

I saw something very different. She is so cool and casual in her violence against that horse that it strikes me as far more likely that this was business as usual, not a crime of passion, if you will.

Watching her hit that horse repeatedly in the absence of other signs of anger (raised voice, red in the face, spectators reacting with laughter and chatting, not silence while someone has temper tantrum, ect.) was the most chilling part of it, for me.

Well said. This is spot on, I felt the exact same way when I watched it! Very cavalier, which was so hard to watch.