I can’t understand this 
What would you like me to say to whom? I’ve voiced my opinion to her and tell anyone who asks about her but without photos or witnessing it myself, or the person not co operating what should I say and to whom?
4 Likes
Google translate - point your phone at it, choose the languages, use the camera option.
2 Likes
I’m late to the thread, I just saw the first half of the video and I’m completely disgusted. I’m also disgusted that the rider let this go on. Whoever they are, they are equally as guilty. If someone did that to a horse I was in charge of/owned there’d be hell to pay.
2 Likes
I’m on my phone
This news is now being reported by the New York Times.
1 Like
I’m in the same situation. I left a barn last year. I voiced concerns over training and horse care. I was brushed off, told I was crazy, and in one instance I was confronted by the barn manager in a way that I thought I was going to get decked. What I saw was very similar to what Charlotte was doing in this video. I have no proof though. Where do I go from here? Her students idolize her. They think she can do no wrong and won’t speak out. It’s my word against theirs.
12 Likes
Yes, I’m a trainer. Not a BNT by any means, but I sure do train horses.
Should I go back and edit it my post so it’s clearer that I meant horses don’t understand kindness in the same way humans do? Horses need boundaries and fairness to develop a mutual respect for each other. That is what kindness is to them. You can be as “kind” as you want to a young stallion and he will eventually test you. Every trainer I know had handled a horse that has been over-loved. These horses are anxious and dangerous to handle.
22 Likes
It actually hit the NYT really early this morning (I start every day with the NYT - sadly these days at 4:30 AM 
)
2 Likes
I think it’s nearly impossible to do anything without evidence and in my case I didn’t witness it, just the person I know told me all about it because she was feeling not great about her horses obvious welts. But the drive to succeed kept her there I guess. If I report it they will call her likely and would she admit it happened then? Doubtful.
For what it’s worth, I think we lost the plot on criticizing abuse when “the locals” started calling riding with the nose 1 deg. behind the vertical Rollkur. It’s so frustrating.
18 Likes
Let’s be clear - this was a minor. I really love the way that so many people on here at a more advanced age claim they never would have allowed this at 16 years old. I call BS on most posters saying this. We are older and wiser than we were at 16 (or I certainly hope so). I sincerely doubt the majority of those who claim they’d have stopped the lesson would have the knowledge or fortitude at this rider’s age to put a stop to a training session with an Olympic gold medalist.
This is not meant to excuse the parents/sponsors for not standing up or CDJ’s behavior that day, just to point out that the rider is basically a child. So many times we are expected to excuse the behavior of kids because “they are kids who don’t know better”. Stop with the double standards (the board in general, not specifically directed at @cayuse). Pick a lane.
But just my opinion and I expect many have a different take on the whole thing
35 Likes
Yes I sure do! Feel free to message me any time on here or on FB. I use almost exclusively R+ now but have a long history in traditional and natural horsemanship training worlds. Currently raising a very spicy and opinionated WB filly using R+ with good success!
4 Likes
To add to this very good (and much better) point that the rider was a minor, with an inherent power disparity with CDJ, in the moment, the rider might have been in the worst position to understand what was happening. She was no doubt trying to concentrate on getting the horse to do whatever it was being asked of it, and she did not have the same vantage point as the person holding the camera on the whipping (as the rider was facing ahead). Not saying the rider could not have watched the video afterwards and been horrified. But again, in the moment, she may not have processed it the same way as people on the ground (or watching a recording taken from the ground).
17 Likes
“Over-loving” is also not kind to humans. Those children/adults become spoilt and, while not necessarily dangerous, potentially unpleasant members of society.
Setting boundaries and sticking to them IS kindness. Feeding as many treats as you want as long as you make sure boundaries are always 100% reinforced is fine. Allowing a horse to grab a treat from you one time because “kindness” is a fatal flaw and is not kind. Reassuring a horse that is nervous with a gentle word and a pat/scratch is kindness.
Horses definitely understand kindness and absolutely blossom when boundaries are fair and 100% reinforced/expected every single day. It’s kindness that needs a better definition 
18 Likes
Haven’t read all the comments. But other than it being unacceptable, she caused what seems to be a nice horse and causing it to be dangerous to the rider.
12 Likes
I don’t think that we are privy to the results of that lesson. Do we know how that horse and rider are doing today?
2 Likes
Well said. This is spot on, I felt the exact same way when I watched it! Very cavalier, which was so hard to watch.
13 Likes
Is that of any importance??
I tried to explain why she possibly did it at that moment… and maybe I was wrong anyhow…
1 Like
From who turned her in: Mrs. Alicia Dickinson’s website
(This is who is laughing and filming in the background.)
“I thought to myself…… these riders and coaches are not “GOD” and I am an independent, intelligent person who has the right to seek clarity.
This didn’t go so well for me at first. Many doors were slammed shut in my face. It seemed anyone who had answers wasn’t interested in giving me the time to help, and anyone who was interested didn’t have the answers!
I then came up with what I believe to be one of my most useful tools in life… the ‘bullshit tax’.
I asked coaches who I suspected could answer my questions what it would take to “cut the bullshit”, and sit down with me (not necessarily while on a horse) and answer the questions I had, until I understood.
And it worked.”
1 Like
