She did this with Vinton Karrasch, the trainer I mentioned above that I rode with. According to the poster I replied to, that’s not “upper level” enough for them 
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And where were these people on the CP thread when we were discussing adult riders, workers, assistant trainers?
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Treats are a great training tool and I have had success using R+ methods (clicker training). But the people/boarders we are talking about are ONLY using treats with no boundaries and producing a disrespectful and anxious horse. Not sure why people are deliberately misconstruing what you’re saying.
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I have to honestly say that it is unclear to me the extent to which she is actually making contact with the horse vs just snapping the popper.
99% of the world is not going to be familiar enough with longe whips to know that you can make essentially the exact same sound without touching the horse just by snapping the popper, and they will think that each sound is from the lash making contact with the horse.
To me it is honestly unclear how much she is actually making contact with the horse, but I have to say the horse’s reaction looks -to me- more like he is responding to the snap of the popper. If you whaled a horse that hard for the lash to be cracking on him that loud wouldn’t the kid be in the rafters?
Still not saying the video is fantastic and its still much worse than I was expecting from her, and if she IS making physical contact that hard it’s egregious, but I’m glad at least one other person has raised this question.
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you can’t treat train them…I know nothing about clicker training. I use the join up method to get horses on the trailer etc. I can’t click and treat riding down the centerline x halt salute so under saddle I use the focus method.
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The video pretty much says it all.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen far worse by some local trainers in SoCal. I wish on more than one occasion that I had been able to video it because I would have reported it. Without video, it’s just a she says the other she says situation.
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I do believe the some of the sound we are hearing from the long side is the lash hitting the kick boards. Not that it makes the double handed use and continued use of the whip acceptable - just offering my observation. She also appears to hit the horse on the shoulders as well down the long side. Very counter productive to getting the horse forward.
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EDIT: I’ve listened again and it sounds more like “This is so shit at hitting him hard.”
Which is much much worse to me.
I can’t make out most of what is being said, but early on the long side I hear, “This is so shit, I’m hitting him hard.”
Oof.
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Because this:
So nobody is misconstruing unless Bogey2 didn’t write what they meant.
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Didn’t someone here quote CDJ as saying ‘short reins win medals’ or something like that?
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I do a lot of trailer training, the treat is given when they stand on the trailer…not while you’re trying to get them on the trailer.
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“Short reins win gold medals” is a well-known and oft-repeated CDJism.
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It appears like she does but even if the whip doesn’t make contact the horse is extremely stressed and terrified. Horses don’t learn in that state and Charlotte knows that. It’s cruel to torture a kind animal of prey this way.
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In R+, you focus on shaping the behavior, so you might mark and reward for an effort of getting on the trailer. It does work, but it’s not for everyone. And it is particularly challenging under saddle.
I also agree with @sascha that it’s a commitment and great for horses you will have a long term relationship with. I typically don’t use it with client horses or horses I only work with 30-90 days.
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Yes, that’s a very ineffective training session that could cause more behavior issues than it fixes.
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What? What does trailer training have to do with treat training? Do you know how treat training works? Do you get that rewards are given for efforts and are gradually reduced as efforts/tasks are linked together to make a larger task? Treat training is not bribery. Bribery is terrible and doesn’t work … and I wish to hell I could get a barn friend or two to understand the difference.
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You mean the foreign working students essentially being held hostage by CP? Those people? The ones who said he was holding their passports for “safekeeping”? Yes, they are adults, but under all kinds of stressors. I’ve found it interesting that the Department of Labor has not dug into this, or maybe they have and it has not been reported to outside sources yet.
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I have a long term commitment with all my personal horses and they are all well behaved because I am not shoving carrots in their mouth constantly, two were stallions who would be nippy if I treat trained them.
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I mean you can also slice up your training frames more narrowly.
If the horse so much as leans forward, that can be a rewardable behavior. Then one little step is your next rewardable behavior.
The smaller/shorter your training frame is, the faster and more accurately you can get results.
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regarding the comment that we must not ride
in UL barns if we have not seen this regularly…. I ride with two Olympians, one has won a medal. The thought of either of them doing this is sooooo out of character it almost makes me laugh. I think they both would whip me before whipping my horse lol
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