Many horses are kept in awful conditions. 10 x 10 stall with no outside window, 27-7 only out to be ridden and then tossed back in. And at some shows? 
Thereâs a whole lot to consider about animal welfare. Most zoos these days treat their animals much better than we treat ours.
Now the dirt comes out. Besides the obvious, and not excusing CDJ here, I kept wondering - who is the freak recording? Why is she laughing? And why is this all coming out now? This paragraph seems to explain that.
Sordid, just sordid all the way around.
A very good article. If you donât speak German, use google translate.
I know this is reality butâŠugh. ThatâŠthat pound of flesh will be our societyâs undoing at some point.
I am not defending Charlotte - donât get me wrong, but man oh man, that bothers me.
Crucifying one to make an example of them so that we can âkeep ridingâ is such a, I donât know, violent tool for societal management. The pitchfork-wielding masses are ugly, and fueling them just does not seem like a great idea.
The irony is that I and probably others have no clue who you are referring to because you didnt tag, quote, or use the reply feature for whoever it is you are angry at. It is very well accepted to do a partial quote on the section of a post you want to engage around. Full quoting everything makes for tedious scrolling. Anyone can easily reference back to a full post when a quote reference. If a quoted section in isolation completely changes the entire intent of your message then I donât think thatâs necessarily the fault of someone responding.
A really good article and he makes a lot of the same points we all have made here: her casual demeanour suggests this is not a one off; there is no rhyme or reason to what sheâs doing and he, like we, cannot understand what she was trying to achieve; swinging the whip with both hands; etc.
He also references Austrian law re: animal cruelty and how this would violate Section 5 TschG (1) and Z 9.
The fact that there are animal cruelty laws in most (all?) jurisdictions shows that there are some âsimple clear objective standard[s]â meaning in many cases there is a legal âway to conclusively determine whether an action falls on either side of the lineâ even if not extreme (for those who find the CDJ behaviour not extreme).
The cry of âno one can define it! itâs not easy and simple and clear! it cannot be regulated except in extreme cases!â is nonadditive to the conversation and is a cop out. We the people who want horse sport to continue need to get our thinking caps on and work together to create a system under which we can train and ride and sanction trainers/riders who act outside that system in order to keep enjoying the sports and horses we enjoy.
Claiming it canât be done is the easiest way of all to hand detractors EXACTLY what they need to shut this stuff down completely. If you donât want that to happen, be part of the solution, donât simply deny even the possibility of a solution.
There was no quote of mine at all. It was just copying my language within the post. Mine was DIRECTLY BELOW the post I referenced. Iâll go back and do the quoting you refer to as well accepted even though the person who had a go at my post also did not do that.
Iâm not angry at all. Please re-read my post. I
if it is in response to my quote of you - I was simply quoting you because you are right about welfare - but how do we define it? It was meant to continue your dialogue. No offense was intended and not meant to be passive aggressive.
No, it was the one right before me. I went back after being scolded by @GraceLikeRain to make it clear.
@millerra - I agree with your post and it continues the conversation, not shuts it down/denies itâs possible. I think we all need to talk it out and see what can be done so that we can all continue doing the things we love and doing them well.
I assume your comment is aimed at me, which is ironic because other than the reference to animal welfare, mine was not aimed at you, which is why I didnât quote you. It was a general reference to many of the 600+ comments in this thread. And I feel perfectly comfortable using the term âhateâ colloquially. I stand by the rest of my comment. I was not being flip. I feel that there are ethical issues with riding horses at all - though I do it - and that there is a lot of holier-than-thouness and pearl-clutching in the discussion surrounding this event. This doesnât mean that horse welfare, and CDâs actions, arenât worth discussing and âengagingâ about - I think itâs a critical issue. I just âdislikeâ the manner in which some of this engagement is happening.
I have never come home after a horrendous day at work and kicked my dog. Thatâs what an abuser does. They kick the dog or beat the spouse. So whatever day she was having, she should behave as the professional she holds herself out to be.
In this case, the kid was clamped on the horse and the reins. The horse was behind the leg because thatâs what the kidâs aids were telling it or it was confused by the kidâs aids. Beating it under those circumstances creates an extremely dangerous situation. So not only was it abusive, it was done in reckless disregard of the situation created. Additionally, do you think this poor horse is going to trust a rider on the ground with a whip to teach it to piaffe in a calm manner after this treatment?
And donât kid yourselvesâthis was not her first rodeo. There was no, hey letâs try this and see what happens. She was deliberate and calm with an experienced demeanor.
I wish people didnât have to see the video to believe that the FEI took the right action. For me, the video is worse than I had expected. Yet there are lots of people defending it. And that makes me the most sick. Letâs agree that this is REALLY BAD and move on. Letâs not accept anything like this in our sport. And the judges who are saying Feh, this is nothingâand blame it on social media. Yâall gotta go. Resign. Just do it. You are not what we want as the leaders of our sport. Your arrogance is killing this sport.
I took the reference to terms only I used to be a direct reference to hating my post. If I was wrong, I was wrong.
I do think itâs worth being active and proactive about what constitutes abuse and how we can regulated this stuff. Itâs only in our own best interests to do so if we want to keep enjoying these sports. There are a lot of things already out there that are useful as jumping off points.
Just b/c something is tricky, hard, slippery, etc. doesnât mean it shouldnât be tackled. And, in this case, we donât have the luxury to throw up our hands and not try to tackle it just b/c itâs not simple and easy and straightforward.
Iâd say the best that can come out of this debacle with CDJ is that we all get together and try our very best to get a lot of this handled and hope we can present a better face to each other and the public and a brighter future not only for our sports but also for our animals.
I did not think of this, and would definitely be disturbed if Safe Sport was removed without some kind of replacement. I am someone who would honestly not mind seeing the equestrian disciplines excluded from the Olympics, given how the IOCâs recommendations have run consistently against the grain of equine welfare (though I wish this would come about from the governing bodies pulling out formally in the interest of said equine welfare, rather than being pushed out due to scandal after scandal).
At least in the U.S., Safe Sport appears to be funded in large part by the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee - so I wonder if the U.S. governing bodies would even have access to Safe Sport materials, or if they would have to implement their own modules.
And if the world finds out there will be quite the public backlash.
Brava, @Cowgirl! This is another excellent point: when we are having a bad day, we donât get to beat people at work (even if we want to!) and decent people donât come home and beat someone or something else. Itâs not an explanation that has any real meaning.
What happened to the horse in that session bothers me far, far more than any backlash for committing said act.
Times have changed. Be aware everyone: If you are caught abusing a horse, and it becomes public consumption, your life, your assets, your respect, your accolades are all GONE.
You will become the Lance Armstrong of the horse world.
Safe Sport is a program mandated by the Olympic Committee for all sports that provide a potential path to the Olympics. And I think they made it mandatory that federal governments pass laws supporting it. The USEF implements it in the USA so it ends up including all USEF disciplines, some of which like hunters donât have an Olympic path. But thereâs lots of horse activity in disciplines outside USEF, or even low level hunter jumper and dressage where no one needs to join USEF (like low end childrenâs lesson barns that only do schooling shows).
USEF could have itâs own program of course but it showed no initiative that way before SS, and it wouldnât have the Olympic & Congressional power behind it. I think things report to SS so itâs not even USEF handling the decisions. Based on previous action I wouldnât expect USEF to have either the resources or the political will to maintain a SS level of scrutiny. Probably no individual sport association could, which is why SS stands outside and has their own staff and expertise
Bolding is mine. Photo by Crispin Parelius Johannesson of Werthâs horse DSP Quantaz in Amsterdam. https://images.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/bc650b7e-5aaa-4604-8bb6-d8a224dea297?fit=crop&format=auto&h=466&q=50&w=700&s=9771419f76543f5e0fd047466169e2b58e319859
Oh, the ironyâŠ
Full article here: https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/a/Xbx2l7/english-version-patrik-kittel-s-horse-lost-oxygen-in-its-tongue
Iâve always thought open training sessions are the best possible things for horses. Open to the entire public, horsey and non-horsey. Every day.
I do think it is also time to carefully examine the judging criteria and why we have made dressage into the spectacle it is today. The driving force is, of course, money and prestige, and wanting more of it. Money from prizes, from horse sales, from sponsorships. Accolades for winning pretty ribbons and coolers. Good feelings from getting big numbers on a test.
None of it actually effing matters, and the horse is the biggest loser.
Thanks for this (horrid as it is). I was surprised to see Werthâs signature here b/c I had heard on COTH that there had been issues with her.
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