[QUOTE=lecoeurtriste;8222580]
I bet I still have the scores somewhere in my laptop! :-)[/QUOTE]
Ooh!! Do you still have that old show folder that had me and my palomino on it? I’d give my right stirrup to have one of those, lost mine in the move 
Those were fun times. I did my first “away” show there, my first Prelim, my first Training CT . . .
(Sorry, now I’m completely reminiscing)
[QUOTE=asterix;8222540]
I think if everyone volunteered, particularly in some prep or behind the scenes role (jump judging etc is fun and needed but gives you less of an insight into how the whole machine runs), it would contribute to a sense of all belonging to one sport rather than the I am a customer/why has service declined feelings.
So, please, please, if you are unhappy, do two things:
Tell your local organizers.
Volunteer to help make something better.[/QUOTE]
Agree, esp with the “customer” comment. I don’t think we are customers in the service sense, we are participants. And the level of our participation in the sport as a whole has an impact on events, both individually and nationally.
Have you ever been to an event, recognized or un-, where there’s a plea for volunteers to help out when you arrive? I have. And seen a great response and the ensuing gratitude of the organizers.
If you go to a bank or a restaurant and the lines are long, or the food is slow coming from the kitchen, do they invite customers to help out?
Maybe it’s that I’m in Area 2 and the events I’ve attended (3 recog/1 unrecog/2 that go both ways across Areas 1 and 2) mean that I haven’t experienced the kinds of things that are leading to complaints. [And, note, all but 2 of these events are Training level and below.] Maybe part of the problem is that we’re generalizing from our individual experiences and thinking that this is something that’s true across the board.
I don’t know, but if you have specific complaints about specific events, make them. Below, a link to the form:
http://useventing.com/news/2015-usea-event-evaluation-form
But I’d really also suggest that we each think about what, in our industry we call “nice to haves” and “need to haves.” I would much rather pay for safety and the continued existence of an event (maintenance and improvements) than get “swag in my bag.” And if the difference between “gimme” and “no gimme” is the difference between someone volunteering to make sure it happens (or not), then it’s on us as the eventing community, not on the nameless, faceless “organizers.”
[QUOTE=asterix;8222540]
I would love to know how many competitors volunteer. I am well aware of the tremendous time constraints for many working amateurs, but as others have said there are ways to volunteer before the horse trial that can be done in small chunks (such as reaching out to potential sponsors).
We have a great volunteer who does just that and it has resulted in a very clear uptick in actual prizes for top places, giveaways, and so on.
I think if everyone volunteered, particularly in some prep or behind the scenes role (jump judging etc is fun and needed but gives you less of an insight into how the whole machine runs), it would contribute to a sense of all belonging to one sport rather than the I am a customer/why has service declined feelings.
In area ii we have enough of a base to support both destination events and more mom and pop type events, and I appreciate both in different ways.
We need happy competitors willing to come out and enjoy the sport whenever they can…
So, please, please, if you are unhappy, do two things:
Tell your local organizers.
Volunteer to help make something better.[/QUOTE]
IF they volunteered, not just as a runner for 2 hours or helping to file a few things for 20 minutes, they wouldn’t complain.
I ran our local group for a few years and nothing, I mean nothing, chapped my hide worse than a long time club member, one who NEVER, ever, never volunteered to help, complaining about absolutely anything at the end of a good show. I did NOT want to hear it. I have a ‘real’ job and a ‘real’ farm and a ‘real’ commute. I didn’t get to show for a few years at our club b/c we’re a small group with…gasp…not enough help. Volunteer hours are required to qualify for year end awards but guess what- they don’t want year end awards enough to actually volunteer. So I and a few stupid cohorts GAVE and gave and gave so the prima donnas could roll up and complain about our work.
So, yeah, when some bum complained that her test was taking more than 2 minutes to get scored at the end of a long, hot day, and the scorer had been stuck in some dog-smelly barn office for hours and hours with a calculator- the bum can shove it. It always did my heart good to hand out tests to smiling competitors, give away carrots and candy, post happy post show pics on the site and on FB…I loved giving and helping people have a great day. But you fail to help, ever, and you complain? Shove. It.
[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;8222684]
So, yeah, when some bum complained that her test was taking more than 2 minutes to get scored at the end of a long, hot day, and the scorer had been stuck in some dog-smelly barn office for hours and hours with a calculator- the bum can shove it. It always did my heart good to hand out tests to smiling competitors, give away carrots and candy, post happy post show pics on the site and on FB…I loved giving and helping people have a great day. But you fail to help, ever, and you complain? Shove. It.[/QUOTE]
WOW. Just WOW…I pay to have horses compete…I haven t volunteered in donkeys years in eventing…I think the the 15 recent years at D.A.D. Will count some. Like to think in the last year the donated $1k in prize $$ and also nice awards also counts… I do have way to many hours volunteering back before you were born , back when we didn t have professional course designers, portable jumps and NO Computers…when we built courses with Pony Club Mom s n Dads and DVCTA had like 15 members…But never did I ever see the spew you just wrote come from anyone who was using a adding machine and pencil working in a hot metal horse trailer/office…who got the scores completed and awards handed out in less than 2 hours AFTER the last horse came off course…I have no idea where you volunteer but I hope it’s not someplace I show up. I absolutely appreciate all the immense hard pain in the a$$ work organizers do and strive to be as unobtrusive as possible.
I do how ever like to leave with our tests and ribbons if earned…I do return pinney an don t bring my dogs and try to park and be as tidy as possible.
Her comment was directed to the complainers 
I am sure that you are not one of them! Spend some time in the secretary’s booth. There is a new breed of competitors that did NOT do what you did back in the day and have no clue what it takes to run an event.
[QUOTE=judybigredpony;8222754]
WOW. Just WOW…I pay to have horses compete…I haven t volunteered in donkeys years in eventing…I think the the 15 recent years at D.A.D. Will count some. Like to think in the last year the donated $1k in prize $$ and also nice awards also counts… I do have way to many hours volunteering back before you were born , back when we didn t have professional course designers, portable jumps and NO Computers…when we built courses with Pony Club Mom s n Dads and DVCTA had like 15 members…But never did I ever see the spew you just wrote come from anyone who was using a adding machine and pencil working in a hot metal horse trailer/office…who got the scores completed and awards handed out in less than 2 hours AFTER the last horse came off course…I have no idea where you volunteer but I hope it’s not someplace I show up. I absolutely appreciate all the immense hard pain in the a$$ work organizers do and strive to be as unobtrusive as possible.
I do how ever like to leave with our tests and ribbons if earned…I do return pinney an don t bring my dogs and try to park and be as tidy as possible.[/QUOTE]
But if you have volunteered, and are a friendly polite competitor, her issue is not with you. Her issue is with people who feel entitled to perfection without any understanding of what how much time and effort it takes to host an event (and what can go wrong, especially if you are relying on volunteers who have limited/incomplete experience and make mistakes. And who aren’t going to bother to put boots on the ground to find out.
Bear in mind, too, that Mr/Ms Restaurateur is a full-time job. Volunteering is something that’s done ON TOP of a full time job, unless that person is independently wealthy.
Again, this is a community. It’s not made up of waiters and managers on one side who are paid to provide a service to paying customers. It’s made up of current and former eventers, their friends and families, and other random people of good will. Good will can be exhausted; let’s remember that.
This.
Again, I have only ever done “day-of” volunteering (stadium jump crew/jump judging/scoring/score running/stadium ring steward+judge (at a teeny unrecog barn show and even that was an adventure). But in my former life as a project manager for sales field force training, the amount of work that goes into pulling off something like this is not to be underestimated. And I got paid a nice contractor’s fee for each day of work, plus OT if I worked 10+ hours. That’s something that these folks ain’t getting.
ETA: Some examples of potential mistakes that can affect people’s experience:
First up, my mistakes: I have made 1 mistake each of the 2 times I have jump judged. First time, competitor very gracious. 2nd time… not so much.
Did I come here, complaining, because 2 rides in a row were interrupted due, in part, to volunteers not doing the best job possible and the show management sucks and, wah, I think my tests suffered as a result? No, I filled out the event form and figured I’d take my lumps because these are volunteers who do their best and make mistakes because lord knows, I have.
[QUOTE=JP60;8222295]
KayBee, with respect, putting on an Event is a service. It is an exchange of goods. While we understand that volunteers are a part of the equation, the venue is owned by someone and they are offering it for a specific use. Whether they make a profit or not, they accept the responsibility of putting on a show for more than just altruistic reasons. They get something out of it even it is the satisfaction of putting on a show. Otherwise, why even make the effort.
Part of this discussion has been about the idea of is this for profit or loss, and if profit how much can be rolled back into the idea of attracting more people. If not for profit, then why are Events run and if if folks do this for the good feeling, then cost is not a factor.
I can’t imagine that is the case for were I to put on a Event, I’d want to ensure two things, I can pay for all my costs including future ones, and that I can keep people coming back. That is the basic definition of a for profit business whether it it is Eventing, sailing national championships, or a restaurant.
The benefit is exactly what you mentioned at the end, the satisfaction of doing something people have a passion for. Again, if I had the property, even some of the money I would run shows and I know I wont make much money, but I’d love the opportunity to provide a place where people can meet and compete and have fun.
So I’ll stand on my restaurant example since I’ve seen many an owner not make tons of money, but provide a service and product that people enjoy and the proprietor enjoys making. The volunteers, the staff, the rest is just the structure added to the foundation of desire originating from the owner of the venue. When they don’t care any more, when they can’t afford it, that is when it ends.[/QUOTE]
But providing a service or exchanging goods implies that the service provider benefits.
I believe KayBee’s point is that that event organizers generally don’t benefit, except a perhaps feeling of euphoria that they managed to pull it off. A restaurant is run as a business - and a business is run with the ultimate goal of making money. Maybe not a lot, but enough to allow an owner to put a roof over their head and food on the table. This is generally accepted - nobody questions a restaurant owner’s desire to make a living.
Why should an event be permitted to only cover costs and attract people? Why should someone not be permitted to run an event as a business where they could actually make a living?! If this was a viable business where people could support themselves, you would not see the events disappearing!!!
I understand that point of ‘value’ - if you are paying money and getting old ribbons and no prizes you don’t feel that it’s good value. That is totally fair.
The reality seems to be that there is a discrepancy between what service providers are willing/able to provide, and what competitors expect. Which very likely accounts for the decline in events and participants that we now see. Nobody is really ‘at fault’ - it’s just the marketplace at work.
Part of the current problem is that this community has started to build walls around itself and is getting a little brittle. Granted, that is perspective from within this small subset of the community, but even in the greater view, the Eventing community has altered, even in the short time I’ve been around it.
Let us roll back a moment and remember that the original theme to this thread was about a transition from bygone days when it seemed like more thought was put into small things like custom ribbons, small treats in bags and such compared to today where it’s reusable ribbons and nothing in the pack but the basics.
So, has cost changed so much to reduce those niceties? Have organizers gotten so overworked they don’t have time and if so, why are they over worked?
One point I had relating to the restaurant owner was not in the day to day operation, it was deeper than that, it was about why did they do it. What caused chef to open in the first place not knowing if s/he would make it. What got a person to wake up one day and say “I want to put on a show” when they had no idea if it will be a success.
My own take is that in both examples, those persons had a passion and wanted to share it with others. Sure it starts to break down in details, but both are providing a service. The former in the act of creating and serving food to people who don’t want to go through the effort of making a meal, the latter in the act of creating a venue where one can compete and jump without having to make all the jumps and do all the organizing work. They both fit the definition of Service:
the action of helping or doing work for someone.
Remove everything else and the success or failure of a business or Event sits squarely on the idea of making the customer/participant happy. So telling people, if you don’t like it just don’t come is a sure fire way to slowly choke an event and sport to death. It is not that the customer is always right, but it must be that until they are wrong, do what one can to make them smile going away.
I used an example early on about an actual moment when an organizer had victory laps for most, but not all divisions. I got my head chews off, because the perception was I was all about the ribbons, but it was not. It was that the organizer provided a service to some, but not all and I thought that unfair. the compounded it by closing an office to those folks who had won something, adding to the sense of indifference and unfairness. People remember being treated such a way and in that moment, I choose to not go back there again.
It was a destination event so I’m they don’t care about some barely able to ride competitor no going again, but I talk, people agree, and maybe they decided to not go…it can add up.
The smalls things really do matter to people so they should not be tossed aside.
[QUOTE=JP60;8222855]
The smalls things really do matter to people so they should not be tossed aside.[/QUOTE]
I do not read anywhere in this thread that anyone thinks that small things do not matter and that they should be tossed aside.
I read that the organizers had to figure out how to make it work the way life is now, less funds and less people willing to help, and they are making it work the best they can.
They will gladly let anyone who wants to help make those little things better step up and do that. The problem is, there is an over all lack of stepping up versus the amount of complaining that things are not happening.
[QUOTE=toady123;8222781]
I understand that point of ‘value’ - if you are paying money and getting old ribbons and no prizes you don’t feel that it’s good value. That is totally fair.
The reality seems to be that there is a discrepancy between what service providers are willing/able to provide, and what competitors expect. Which very likely accounts for the decline in events and participants that we now see. Nobody is really ‘at fault’ - it’s just the marketplace at work.[/QUOTE]
But the heart of that statement is, "do we want that trend to continue? If the “service provider” is not willing to accommodate competitors reasonable expectations then can the complain about the loss of numbers?
Keep in mind we are not talking Big venues which are not the bulk of the sport, but the regional/local events that really really need people to come or they stop.
Not a single person on this thread would feel that the organizer should do this for nothing (unless they are uber rich like I’ll be when I win the lottery and charge small fees and throw big parties till I’m not rich any more…but I just dream), but once we know what the costs really are (not many do right now) we can make better decisions and opinions about a venue.
We notice the small things, the smile, the thank you and while not one person is going to go to an organizer and say “gee, can we get fancier ribbons” without feeling foolish, we will notice those places that get as fancy as possible and put that in the plus column as well.
That was the point of the original Article (and follow up) and the viewpoint of the OP.
We notice the small things and they do matter.
kaybee and others talk about volunteers and their importance for a show. I cannot agree more and though not quite germane to this threads topic, I’ll repeat that if a venue is struggling to get help then it might be possible they are
1 - Stuck in the mindset of only looking to and reaching out within the horse community or worse, only looking within the subset of Eventing or Jumping. Given the number of western riders in my neck of the woods, reaching out to barrel racers, western pleasure groups, folks that may not know a lickabout Eventing, but love horses and helping; they may add to the pool. Social groups, school groups, Even town boards could be tapped to see if they can help for a thriving event is good for local business.
2- They don’t tell people what they need. Jump judging is the easy call, but what jobs on staff can be done by volunteers? Do they advertise in local papers or just hope word of mouth gets it done. Basically, how do they sell the need because if done right, they could wind up with too much help.
3 - Intimidation factor. When I started jump judging I felt way over my head, but thankfully there was kind people to assist, but I’ve seen competitors look down on volunteers AND I’ve seen staff treat volunteers more like chattel than people who gave up time to help. If you do bring non-horse people in it is so important to make them feel not just welcomed, but safe. In my mind a good organizer would have job descriptions down for every Vjob needed and would be ready getting it out asap so if someone says “hey, can I be a ring steward” when they’ve never seen a horse, the answer would be sure, but you’ll work under so and so till you got the job down. I was told I was going to be a ring steward at one event, but when I reported there, they told me I was just going to pick up rails. I did my job, but never wanted to volunteer there again (though I did after expressing my frustration). You also want to try and keep the help happy and making them enjoy the job is part of that effort.
If a organizer complains about lack of volunteers the first thing I’d be wondering is how far and how hard did you cast the net. Did you think outside the box for in today’s world, that may be needed.
Oh heck. in our neck of the woods, if an organizer has a hard time getting volunteers, they get TIRED and they close up shop and we have one less event site! It sucks!
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8222863]
I do not read anywhere in this thread that anyone thinks that small things do not matter and that they should be tossed aside.
I read that the organizers had to figure out how to make it work the way life is now, less funds and less people willing to help, and they are making it work the best they can.
They will gladly let anyone who wants to help make those little things better step up and do that. The problem is, there is an over all lack of stepping up versus the amount of complaining that things are not happening.[/QUOTE]
hmmm…and yet this whole thing started on such a small item as a ribbon with some folks commenting that that should not matter. Saying it does is not accusatory, it is rememberative for to forget is to lose business.
As to the second, making it work the best they can is fine, but…but if they cannot see that how they are going about it maybe losing customers and/or repeat business then that is not good for the sport overall.
So to put this in practical terms, I can just call up Lellie Ward and say, Lellie, Paradise needs bigger ribbons and I will be happy to help you order them. See, I volunteered my time there. She says “that’s fine JP, but oh, since you’re helping so much, you pay for the difference otherwise I’ll stick with what I got”. Without her approving a budget for $5 ribbons vs $2 ribbons, my “helping” means little.
When an organizer needs help, they need to be clear what it is, but you don’t need extra volunteers to put candies in a packet, add an extra 4 inches to a ribbon, have water ready after cross country yet those three things will be really noticed and appreciated by competitors.
[QUOTE=JP60;8222855]
Part of the current problem is that this community has started to build walls around itself and is getting a little brittle.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure that’s true about building walls. I think eventing has largely been invisible to the larger world for, well, forever. I think walls are in the process of being broken DOWN and there is the enticement of the for-profit model (a la hunter/jumpers), at least for the upper levels. In the h/j world there is HITS. They have a salaried staff that organizes multiple events. This increases costs exponentially. The depth/design of their website alone should tell you something. Such management companies have also been successful at eliminating competitive shows (the “mileage rule,” meaning that no other show is allowed to take place within a certain distance, and I think time, of these shows.)
So, has cost changed so much to reduce those niceties? Have organizers gotten so overworked they don’t have time and if so, why are they over worked?
I think it highly likely that costs have gone up across the board, for everything. Fuel costs alone hit events hard, which also impacts delivery costs and therefore all supplies. And I’m thinking organizers are overworked because this ain’t their day job. It’s something they do on TOP of that (any organizers out there want to confirm that)?
One point I had relating to the restaurant owner was not in the day to day operation, it was deeper than that, it was about why did they do it. What caused chef to open in the first place not knowing if s/he would make it. What got a person to wake up one day and say “I want to put on a show” when they had no idea if it will be a success.
There are likely very few people who, nowadays, wake up and want to suddenly host an event. Or organize an existing one for the first time For existing venues, year to year, someone has to step up and organize; if no-one is willing, the show goes away.
From what I can tell from my emails, there are organizers who shepherd the same event, year after year. But organizers likely have a shelf limit and they have to pass the torch along at some point. And then the new organizer has to learn as they go. And I’m sure each organizer has a few key volunteers they rely on year to year for the lead-up to the show. But those volunteers are affected by Life - moving, job changes, family issues. If key volunteer A moves on from eventing for whatever reason then a new key volunteer has to be identified. And, again, learning curve.
This is fundamentally different from any for-profit enterprise. Recruitment is word of mouth and there is no on-the-job training. Sure, we would all like to make a living at doing what we love best. But I’m betting that the vast majorities of restaurateurs have a solid business plan in addition to a “dream.” If they don’t, they don’t succeed. If the business owner has a choice between fake flowers, or no flowers on the table due to increased costs (or providing matchbooks or toothpicks or mints or teeny cakes and candles ready to go if they find out a customer has a birthday or whatever), you BETCHA those things will go away.
Also, remember, in addition to no official training for organizers or pre-show volunteers (you learn as you go), knowledge is lost when experienced organizers and/or volunteers are lost. This is true in businesses as well; institutional knowledge can’t be undervalued.
My own take is that in both examples, those persons had a passion and wanted to share it with others. Sure it starts to break down in details, but both are providing a service. The former in the act of creating and serving food to people who don’t want to go through the effort of making a meal, the latter in the act of creating a venue where one can compete and jump without having to make all the jumps and do all the organizing work. They both fit the definition of Service:
the action of helping or doing work for someone.
Sure, in that light, they are providing a “service.” Almost anything is under that very general definition. If I hand you a bucket, I’m technically doing you a service. But there’s a huge distinction between profit and not-for-profit/non-profit and that is the important distinction: not I give you X and I get Y in return, therefore service and the customer is always right. Hosting an event does not make it (or the person providing it) part of the service INDUSTRY.
An industry made up of companies that primarily earn revenue through providing intangible products and services. .
Remove everything else and the success or failure of a business or Event sits squarely on the idea of making the customer/participant happy. So telling people, if you don’t like it just don’t come is a sure fire way to slowly choke an event and sport to death. It is not that the customer is always right, but it must be that until they are wrong, do what one can to make them smile going away.
I haven’t read too many people saying that. I, and most others, are saying “if you don’t like it, share your feedback and volunteer. But if you don’t, and have never volunteered, and you come with complaints born out of ignorance and entitlement, well…”
I used an example early on about an actual moment when an organizer had victory laps for most, but not all divisions. I got my head chews off, because the perception was I was all about the ribbons, but it was not. It was that the organizer provided a service to some, but not all and I thought that unfair. the compounded it by closing an office to those folks who had won something, adding to the sense of indifference and unfairness. People remember being treated such a way and in that moment, I choose to not go back there again.
It was a destination event so I’m they don’t care about some barely able to ride competitor no going again, but I talk, people agree, and maybe they decided to not go…it can add up.
I don’t blame you for being disappointed. But I do think that generalizing from that one particular incident to events in general is unfair to organizers as a group. And if you didn’t fill out the eventing feedback form expressing that disappointment, then that’s a reason why this sort of thing could continue at that particular venue.
The smalls things really do matter to people so they should not be tossed aside.
Yes, they do. But, again, the issue is that the labor in this case is volunteer based. The show secretary doesn’t really have an excuse for leaving without giving out ribbons. Did the event run over? If so, the announcer (paid) and the ring stewards (and other volunteers) etc, have put in a long day. For the announcer in particular, they may have contracted for a certain number of hours and either didn’t have the money (or the announcer was unwilling) to stay till the end. Not saying they couldn’t have found a volunteer to play announcer, but if they didn’t anticipate this/plan for it… well, yeah, bad planning.
Have I loved being rushed to get over to XC and go every time I have competed at a certain venue (3 out of 3 times)? Nope. I understand why they’re doing it. It’s 5pm and many of the volunteers have been there since 7am or so. But I know this because I’ve been the person getting there at 7 am and not leaving till 5:30. Someone whose never volunteered might just bitch at the nearest person about it not considering that a day this long might mean that a volunteer will go “that was hell. ain’t never doin’ that again,” particularly if a competitor snarks at them.
But y’know what I did after the 3rd consecutive time this happened? I didn’t snarl at the show secretary or a volunteer that crossed my path. I went over to the feedback form and said… “hey, this has happened 3 out of 3 times. Maybe there’s a problem in the way you’re scheduling that stadium is always at least 1 hour behind for BN.” And I probably should have done it the second time it happened…
Fundamentally, I don’t agree with the attitude that there’s an “us” and a “them.” It’s one big community with 2 categories – competitors and non-competitors. Many of us cross between the 2, at least when it comes to our physical presence at events (eg, competitors as volunteers or officials or whatever). All of us should strive to see things from the other side of the fence.
[QUOTE=Blugal;8222907]
Oh heck. in our neck of the woods, if an organizer has a hard time getting volunteers, they get TIRED and they close up shop and we have one less event site! It sucks![/QUOTE]
And the question is, why? I agree, it sucks and maybe USEA could do a debrief to find out what was done or not done to bring in volunteers. Distance, to many shows? Not enough interest? We need to be more, not less transparent if we want to survive.
I’ve pretty much said my thing, but I’ll be curious if anyone responds to questions posted or ideas put forth.
[QUOTE=judybigredpony;8222754]
WOW. Just WOW…I pay to have horses compete…I haven t volunteered in donkeys years in eventing…I think the the 15 recent years at D.A.D. Will count some. Like to think in the last year the donated $1k in prize $$ and also nice awards also counts… I do have way to many hours volunteering back before you were born , back when we didn t have professional course designers, portable jumps and NO Computers…when we built courses with Pony Club Mom s n Dads and DVCTA had like 15 members…But never did I ever see the spew you just wrote come from anyone who was using a adding machine and pencil working in a hot metal horse trailer/office…who got the scores completed and awards handed out in less than 2 hours AFTER the last horse came off course…I have no idea where you volunteer but I hope it’s not someplace I show up. I absolutely appreciate all the immense hard pain in the a$$ work organizers do and strive to be as unobtrusive as possible.
I do how ever like to leave with our tests and ribbons if earned…I do return pinney an don t bring my dogs and try to park and be as tidy as possible.[/QUOTE]
Oh my goodness, I am so sorry I wasn’t clearer- You are not the one I’m fussing about. I am fussing about the complainers; the people who both a) never help and b) appear at the Secretary’s desk with complaints- the sentences that start with ‘you know what we should have done? …’ when the ‘we’ isn’t really WE, it’s you, you people who worked your butts off? YOU people should have…’.
THOSE are the people who bug those who are tired and pretty happy with how well the day went and here they come to fart all over it.
Example- at one show, a competitor did western dressage (this was a dressage only show). Those tests are a little unfamiliar in their layout and our scorer totaled it wrong but no one caught it. The competitor got the high point award, everyone was happy, done.
Three days later, she let me know her score was wrong, and b/c HERS was wrong, they must ALL be wrong from the entire afternoon that the same person was scoring tests all afternoon. I thanked her for letting me know, and so I was sorry for the error, but no others were reported (and I reminded her of when the corrections were due - same day, folks- by USEF rules) , and I considered the case was closed. She went on and on about how she didn’t trust that any of the scores were right for anyone, so I should email all of the entrants to find out who was really high point, and I owed that person an apology for the mistake, etc etc. Understand that save for that one bobble- no one else complained all day about a thing- a rare thing on a hot Summer day at a horse show 
And you know what? I’d busted my hump putting together a sweet high point award for that dinky little show, a fun gift bag with Higher Standards Leather Care goodies, candy, a huge ribbon, and a cover photo of the winner on our FB page. All so I could be told how unreliable my scorers were and how disappointed she was in how it was handled.
fun times!
[QUOTE=JP60;8222929]
So to put this in practical terms, I can just call up Lellie Ward and say, Lellie, Paradise needs bigger ribbons and I will be happy to help you order them. See, I volunteered my time there. She says “that’s fine JP, but oh, since you’re helping so much, you pay for the difference otherwise I’ll stick with what I got”. Without her approving a budget for $5 ribbons vs $2 ribbons, my “helping” means little.
When an organizer needs help, they need to be clear what it is, but you don’t need extra volunteers to put candies in a packet, add an extra 4 inches to a ribbon, have water ready after cross country yet those three things will be really noticed and appreciated by competitors.[/QUOTE]
An organizer can only be clear about their needs if they people to relay their needs to. And if you have specific ideas, you can volunteer them. Bear in mind, that if your ideas cost money, then that either has to come out of the existing budget (may not be possible), or you have to fundraise/find sponsors to pay for it.
Also, I’m confused – are you saying that you would like to see the cashflow so you can determine if the organizer is correct about how much money they have to spend on ribbons?
As for something special in the packets – you have to design it, source it, and likely find a sponsor to pay for it. (If it’s candy, I have no issue with what most venues I’ve been to do - a big bowl of peppermints on the table where you receive your packets). But for something more, this is something you can approach an organizer about. A conversation might go like this:
Wannabe Volunteer: Hey, organizer, I think competitors would love it if they got a little grooming brush. I volunteer to contact brush manufacturers to see if they’d be willing to provide X brushes at cost. Do we have the budget for that?
Organizer: Sorry JP60; that’s not possible. I wish it were!
WV: That’s too bad. Do you have any idea of any sponsors that might be able to help out?
Organizer: Hmm. Well, X at the local feed store used to throw a bit of money our way, but when he sold, that stopped. Volunteer A used to do this sort of thing for me, but she moved so…
WV: Do you have any objections if I contact some local businesses to see if they’d be willing to donate the funds in exchange for their logo/contact info on the brush.
Organizer: Fab idea! Go for it! Meanwhile, I really need help finding people to come paint fences. Would you be able to help with that?
A debrief… would require another volunteer… at least in my opinion, since Equine Canada (Canadian Eventing is part of it) doesn’t do anything, so it would be our provincial body (Horse Trials BC), which is volunteer run.
I have theories about why events stopped running. Here are some:
organizer/volunteer fatigue. Due it part to distance, it’s the same group of volunteers.
Funding. Organizers paying out of their own pocket to subsidize their event. This gets old fast.
Lack of gratitude/entitlement of competitors (leaving event sites dirty/garbage, snotty attitudes, etc.)
Competitors targeting destination events" in favour of local ones. Partly to do with the new “travel with your trainer” model of eventing.
Those same competitors complain about their local events not having fancy jumps, prizes, prize money, nice stabling, etc. etc. - also complaining about the entries/stabling fees - also complaining that they don’t want to drive out of their local area to attend or to volunteer. But, hypocritically, they will drive to the destination event which is a 12-hour drive away with double entry fee AND requires a health certificate and coggins (at least $100)!!! WTF.
[QUOTE=KayBee;8222930]
I’m not sure that’s true about building walls. I think eventing has largely been invisible to the larger world for, well, forever. I think walls are in the process of being broken DOWN .[/QUOTE]
I love what you wrote even if we will disagree on the point above. That is a matter of perspective and experience.
There was a rich meal you put on my plate, but I only want to boil it down to this, I do not see an Us/them, I see customer/business for at the end of the day, I am exchanging money for service, even if that service is hosting a show. I see a symbiotic relationship and one that is not strong right now where it matters the most, keeping people in the sport.
All in all, a fascinating discussion. I learned some, I still want to put on a show, but that will never happen on my current path. I’d still like to see real numbers and I’d like to see USEA maybe put some more effort and talent on growing/keeping venues and less on programs for young horses or riders trying to climb to the top of the sport. In the mean time, I have three show to attend this year. I plan to thank the volunteers and see if Team Sterling can pull in one more three so I can really burn money next year.
I am SO afraid of the customer/business model. As others have said, that is where H/J went.
I’ve done some A-level shows the past two years on the H/J circuit, and boy, were they expensive. My every need was taken care of though (water and horse treats at the out-gate anyone?). But the ribbons were NOT as fancy as you all would like - because most people compete in so many classes, they can accumulate ribbons quickly - only the championship classes have fancy ribbons.
We are going to price ourselves out of a sport pretty quickly if we try to follow this model. “Back in the day” the simple weekend event at a family farm or lesson facility was relatively common. But these days I think with land prices and open land being more scarce, if we aren’t careful, we won’t have any places to event any more, except the fancy for-profit venues.
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