Delurking to add, a couple of years ago I was having some difficultly with my dressage horse. A gal at the barn gave some CA tapes to watch. I tried several things from the tapes. What I found was that the ground work helped me with my mare a lot. Essie is a dominant mare and she likes to be in charge. She also likes drama and to suck me into the drama. The ground work helped me disengage myself from Essie’s drama and put me back in charge. I also looked at CA’s round pen stuff and :eek: :no: 
. How on earth does running a horse into the ground and making them pant help with submission? With Essie the round penning made her disengage her hindquarters not engage them. She got fast and lost her leads and it was a disasater. I really had to backtrack and get her back to lunging properly. I did do some round pen type principles but I had Essie on the lunge line and moving correctly. I am not a fan of round penning. I think it’s counter productive.
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;3346209]
To me, that is painful to watch. 
That horse is so “brow beaten” it is pathetic. IMO, of course.[/QUOTE]
I think you need to understand cutting and reining to know that horse isn’t brow beaten. Imagine what other disciplines would say if they saw a video of Anky’s type of training without truly understanding that discipline…JMO of course.
To the person who said the NH people don’t teach you to ride, they teach “communication with the horse” well great. However, most of the people who follow these NH guys really really need to learn to ride. Their money would be much better spent on some truly good lessons.
I have friends in a lot of different disciplines. I had a childhood friend who does the National Show horse stuff argue with me that they can train a horse to the upper levels quicker and easier and that dressage is just a waste of time. Or the Parelli types who think they are doing third level on some not ever through four beater who has never learned to take the contact.
I do think doing competitive dressage third level or above correctly and quite well is much harder than riding a reining horse or a hunter or a saddle seat horse or whatever. It takes a lot of time and work and “communication” etc. Sitting a big expressive extended trot on a huge horse who moves through his whole body is more work for me than sitting the sliding stops and spins in a western saddle. It is more difficult and burns more calories than piloting a good hunter over a 3’6" course. I have done other disciplines so I am not just talking out my a**. In fact I would go so far as to say that I could do a better reining test on a trained reiner than CA could do a fourth level test on a confirmed dressage horse. I think I have a pretty good understanding of reining and cutting, but from what I have seen, he hasn’t a clue about dressage.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3345220]
Then there are no good horsemen in Southern California :([/QUOTE]
I was thinking the very same thing!!
[QUOTE=WrenTF;3346972]
I was thinking the very same thing!![/QUOTE]
That’s a shame…
[QUOTE=kkj;3346952]
I do think doing competitive dressage third level or above correctly and quite well is much harder than riding a reining horse or a hunter or a saddle seat horse or whatever. It takes a lot of time and work and “communication” etc. Sitting a big expressive extended trot on a huge horse who moves through his whole body is more work for me than sitting the sliding stops and spins in a western saddle. It is more difficult and burns more calories than piloting a good hunter over a 3’6" course. I have done other disciplines so I am not just talking out my a**. In fact I would go so far as to say that I could do a better reining test on a trained reiner than CA could do a fourth level test on a confirmed dressage horse. I think I have a pretty good understanding of reining and cutting, but from what I have seen, he hasn’t a clue about dressage.[/QUOTE]
I have to laugh when people talk about how hard dressage is. Not that it isn’t hard. But to say that it is harder than any other discipline seems really ignorant to me. Do you really think that dressage is the pinnacle of horsemanship and that it prepares you for all other disciplines? Sorry, but it is just one discipline out of many. They ALL require training and hard work. There is nothing about dressage that makes it harder than jumping or cutting or saddleseat. If you want to be good, it’s going to be hard. That’s universal.
Unfortunately, you are not the only dressage rider who thinks they could cut it in other disciplines. Sorry but I just don’t see it happening. Saying you could do competitive reining is no different than the Parelli housewife who thinks she is on the cusp of FEI. In both instances, people don’t know what they don’t know.
[QUOTE=canticle;3347044]
I have to laugh when people talk about how hard dressage is. Not that it isn’t hard. But to say that it is harder than any other discipline seems really ignorant to me. Do you really think that dressage is the pinnacle of horsemanship and that it prepares you for all other disciplines? Sorry, but it is just one discipline out of many. They ALL require training and hard work. There is nothing about dressage that makes it harder than jumping or cutting or saddleseat. If you want to be good, it’s going to be hard. That’s universal.
Unfortunately, you are not the only dressage rider who thinks they could cut it in other disciplines. Sorry but I just don’t see it happening. Saying you could do competitive reining is no different than the Parelli housewife who thinks she is on the cusp of FEI. In both instances, people don’t know what they don’t know.[/QUOTE]
I concur. Sitting a real spin on a reining horse is difficult! I know plenty of upper level dressage horses that would fall off their horse if asked to shorten their stirrups, sit in a close contact saddle and jump.
I see where kkj is coming from in that she has done more than one discipline, but just because she has done them, doesn’t mean she can compete at the national level in them. I have competed Western and Hunter/Equitation before eventing and working on dressage - they are all unique in their own right and have equal difficulties.
[QUOTE=kkj;3346952]
To the person who said the NH people don’t teach you to ride, they teach “communication with the horse” well great. However, most of the people who follow these NH guys really really need to learn to ride. Their money would be much better spent on some truly good lessons.
I have friends in a lot of different disciplines. I had a childhood friend who does the National Show horse stuff argue with me that they can train a horse to the upper levels quicker and easier and that dressage is just a waste of time. Or the Parelli types who think they are doing third level on some not ever through four beater who has never learned to take the contact.
I do think doing competitive dressage third level or above correctly and quite well is much harder than riding a reining horse or a hunter or a saddle seat horse or whatever. It takes a lot of time and work and “communication” etc. Sitting a big expressive extended trot on a huge horse who moves through his whole body is more work for me than sitting the sliding stops and spins in a western saddle. It is more difficult and burns more calories than piloting a good hunter over a 3’6" course. I have done other disciplines so I am not just talking out my a**. In fact I would go so far as to say that I could do a better reining test on a trained reiner than CA could do a fourth level test on a confirmed dressage horse. I think I have a pretty good understanding of reining and cutting, but from what I have seen, he hasn’t a clue about dressage.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with the last two posters but it would be fun to see a FEI Grand Prix dressage rider and a FEI Grand Prix Jumper rider switch horses and compete at the others discipline… I’m guessing one wouldn’t do it…
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3347122]
I have to agree with the last two posters but it would be fun to see a FEI Grand Prix dressage rider and a FEI Grand Prix Jumper rider switch horses and compete at the others discipline… I’m guessing one wouldn’t do it…[/QUOTE]
I remember watching John Lyons ‘ride’ a dressage test. It was a tandem test with a dressage rider. It was a very simply training level type test and John Lyons looked horrible. I have seen him ride Western as well and he is great - he needs to stay in a Western Saddle or take lessons from a good dressage trainer…
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3347127]
I remember watching John Lyons ‘ride’ a dressage test. It was a tandem test with a dressage rider. It was a very simply training level type test and John Lyons looked horrible. I have seen him ride Western as well and he is great - he needs to stay in a Western Saddle or take lessons from a good dressage trainer…[/QUOTE]
You might also be surprised that a dressage rider wouldn’t look all that impressive riding a horse like John’s… It’s not so easy to do some of those movements with one hand and no contact…If you haven’t sat on a really nice reining horse before you just might be surprised how much horse is under you and quite frankly are even more sensitive then dressage horses…
OH, Ridgeback - that’s what I was agreeing to. Should have added that. As I said before - Reining is tough! While a dressage rider will do better than a jumper at getting into a Western saddle, but I don’t see them sitting a real spin well.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I can see a Western horse tossing a Dressage rider because they are looking for that contact. As a matter of fact, I would love to see a hauty tauty type dressage rider try to ride a reining horse!
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3347149]
OH, Ridgeback - that’s what I was agreeing to. Should have added that. As I said before - Reining is tough! While a dressage rider will do better than a jumper at getting into a Western saddle, but I don’t see them sitting a real spin well.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I can see a Western horse tossing a Dressage rider because they are looking for that contact. As a matter of fact, I would love to see a hauty tauty type dressage rider try to ride a reining horse![/QUOTE]
I would have to disagree on the dressage rider doing better then a jumper rider in a western saddle… Most jumper riders have a great seat even with short irons they can sit a trot as well as many upper level dressage riders now hunter riders I’d agree there…
I was thinking more in lines of relaxing their leg into the longer stirrup and sitting back/deep…It might be more of a hunter thing (about the sitting back/deep).
When I first started riding dressage, my trainer was impressed at my seat coming from the hunter/equitation world. She had trained more than one former hunter. It became clear to her when I told her I spent equal time riding Western growing up.
The only way to know for sure is to test the theory!
Now we just need a Grand Prix Jumper and Grand Prix dressage rider! Who can we get?
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3347165]
I was thinking more in lines of relaxing their leg into the longer stirrup and sitting back/deep…It might be more of a hunter thing (about the sitting back/deep).
When I first started riding dressage, my trainer was impressed at my seat coming from the hunter/equitation world. She had trained more than one former hunter. It became clear to her when I told her I spent equal time riding Western growing up.
The only way to know for sure is to test the theory!
Now we just need a Grand Prix Jumper and Grand Prix dressage rider! Who can we get?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know any good hunter riders that ride deep in the saddle now a jumper rider for sure.
I think it’s great that he was willing to get our there and try it 
Western IS a lot different, as is hunt seat. But, it’s different because what you’re trying to accomplish is different- the saddle isn’t what changes things.
:rolleyes:
I use to spin on a reining horse bareback :eek: It was great fun, but it was very hard esp. bareback. I had the best time on that horse and those sliding stops are amazing to ride.:yes: I have rode reining horses and barrel horses and hunters and jumpers and now dressage and eventing for the past 15 years as well as taking breaks and trail riding. I do believe (not to offend anyone) hunters was the easiest. Barrel racing was probably the hardest and dressage is dang difficult esp. when the horse has no clue :lol: Not to knock any of the disicplines but they are all difficult if you don’t know what your doing. :yes: I’ve seen Chris Cox jump 4’ on a jumper before :eek: that was scary but he has balls I guess to try it. :lol: Reining is a very hard sport because it is so subtle. In dressage we use a lot of seat and leg but we still use a lot of rein. Inside leg outside rein etc… Reining you don’t have that option. You use all seat and you never ever really use the reins. You don’t pull back to stop at all you take no contact and you have the loosest rein in the world :yes: and it is all suppose to work, it is difficult.
[QUOTE=rabicon;3347428]
I use to spin on a reining horse bareback :eek: It was great fun, but it was very hard esp. bareback. I had the best time on that horse and those sliding stops are amazing to ride.:yes: I have rode reining horses and barrel horses and hunters and jumpers and now dressage and eventing for the past 15 years as well as taking breaks and trail riding. I do believe (not to offend anyone) hunters was the easiest. Barrel racing was probably the hardest and dressage is dang difficult esp. when the horse has no clue :lol: Not to knock any of the disicplines but they are all difficult if you don’t know what your doing. :yes: I’ve seen Chris Cox jump 4’ on a jumper before :eek: that was scary but he has balls I guess to try it. :lol: Reining is a very hard sport because it is so subtle. In dressage we use a lot of seat and leg but we still use a lot of rein. Inside leg outside rein etc… Reining you don’t have that option. You use all seat and you never ever really use the reins. You don’t pull back to stop at all you take no contact and you have the loosest rein in the world :yes: and it is all suppose to work, it is difficult.[/QUOTE]
Hunters at the top are probably one of the most difficult…I’ve seen pro’s ride horses that hang their legs with an amatuer yet jump like a 6 figure horse with them.
I was at one of his demos where someone asked about desensitizing a horse to gun shots. He said you could just use blanks but in Australia the basic training of a stock horse included desensitiing to a whip and indeed it does sound like a gunshot.
He did mention that one should learn how to use it first.
I suspect that it would be good to desensitize a horse who was scared of fireworks as well
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3347291]
I think it’s great that he was willing to get our there and try it Western IS a lot different, as is hunt seat. But, it’s different because what you’re trying to accomplish is different- the saddle isn’t what changes things.[/QUOTE]
That would have been great, but it was in a ‘John can do anything’ type of context. To top it off, there was a line waiting to ask him one question per person at the horse expo and he delayed the line just to watch his own video of ‘John Lyons is so great, he can ride any horse’.
Just made the whole thing annoying. I like most of his techniques, but this is just what I tend to see happening as these trainers get bigger - the ego does also…
And the saddle does change things. A close contact is a lot different than a dressage, or a Roping saddle or a trail saddle, or a hunt seat saddle, etc. Some are more similar, and some definitely take getting used to. It is part of the difference.
